MP Julian Sturdy backs petition over bus changes

A YORK MP has added his name to a petition organised in protest at changes to a local bus service on the edge of the city.

Julian Sturdy, York Outer MP, signed the petition set up by Wigginton resident Jean Nicholls after bus operator First made alterations that have meant services are now hourly rather than half-hourly. Elderly residents said the move had made it more difficult for them to travel into the city.

About 850 people in Haxby and Wigginton have supported the campaign.

Mr Sturdy, who has met local residents, said: “The changes made to the buses in Wigginton are only part of a wider set of rather inconsiderate changes made to a number of York services by various companies.

“I would urge First to pay attention to the strength of feeling among their customers and review the changes they have made as a matter of urgency.”

During his visit, Mr Sturdy was also shown how far elderly and disabled residents have to walk to catch the alternative No.1 service, rather than the No.13, which has been subject to changes.

Comments (10)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

9:44am Wed 12 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

I wouldn't bother with this...

I signed up to James Alexander's Fares Fair York campaign back when he was a lowly opposition Cllr. Thought that when he came to power that something would be done about the buses in York.

Since Labour's victory Cllr Alexander has been very quiet on that campaign & several others he started in opposition.

I'm beginning to feel that any politician has very little chance of influencing private companies to do anything for the people of York.
I wouldn't bother with this... I signed up to James Alexander's Fares Fair York campaign back when he was a lowly opposition Cllr. Thought that when he came to power that something would be done about the buses in York. Since Labour's victory Cllr Alexander has been very quiet on that campaign & several others he started in opposition. I'm beginning to feel that any politician has very little chance of influencing private companies to do anything for the people of York. M.Lucas

9:56am Wed 12 Dec 12

AngryandFrustrated says...

This is what you get when you sell your soul to the idea of capitalism, and capitalism only. Welcome to the world of the free market! Until a politician grasps the nettle and decides that some services (be it bus, residential homes, police, fire, meals on wheels etc) are so important that it out-weighs the idea of "profit", normal everyday citizens will be hostage to the profits of major international companies, First being a prime example. Why should they continue a half hourly service for the residents of Wigginton, if it loses money for the company and by definition, money for the shareholders? Until/unless legislation is changed then this will continue and will, in all probability lead to more service cuts, especially those routes that may be "unprofitable" but essential to those that live in more remote areas.

Mr Sturdy, your party is one of the worst for relying on private, profit making companies to deliver services that are not profitable, and then you wonder why services are pulled? Basic economics, Mr Sturdy, basic economics.

As for JA, I have voted Labour all my life, but I won't vote for Alexander again. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
This is what you get when you sell your soul to the idea of capitalism, and capitalism only. Welcome to the world of the free market! Until a politician grasps the nettle and decides that some services (be it bus, residential homes, police, fire, meals on wheels etc) are so important that it out-weighs the idea of "profit", normal everyday citizens will be hostage to the profits of major international companies, First being a prime example. Why should they continue a half hourly service for the residents of Wigginton, if it loses money for the company and by definition, money for the shareholders? Until/unless legislation is changed then this will continue and will, in all probability lead to more service cuts, especially those routes that may be "unprofitable" but essential to those that live in more remote areas. Mr Sturdy, your party is one of the worst for relying on private, profit making companies to deliver services that are not profitable, and then you wonder why services are pulled? Basic economics, Mr Sturdy, basic economics. As for JA, I have voted Labour all my life, but I won't vote for Alexander again. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. AngryandFrustrated

9:59am Wed 12 Dec 12

old_geezer says...

Since Julian Sturdy's party removed any meaningful power over buses from councils in 1986 explicitly to let the market decide to run services on commercial grounds, it's a bit rich for him to complain about First doing exactly that.
Since Julian Sturdy's party removed any meaningful power over buses from councils in 1986 explicitly to let the market decide to run services on commercial grounds, it's a bit rich for him to complain about First doing exactly that. old_geezer

11:02am Wed 12 Dec 12

York1900 says...

First change there services every couple of years to try and get the council to give them a subsidy to run services

First have in the past run other operators out by running services at a loss or running buses in the same livery
All bus routes in York should be open to all operators to run services and brake First monopoly over bus services in York



.
First change there services every couple of years to try and get the council to give them a subsidy to run services First have in the past run other operators out by running services at a loss or running buses in the same livery All bus routes in York should be open to all operators to run services and brake First monopoly over bus services in York . York1900

1:36pm Wed 12 Dec 12

old_geezer says...

York1900: to be fair to First (though it grates!), bus routes are in law open to any operator. In practice is a different story, as you mention.

One downside of deregulation is no commercial incentive except on already well-served corridors. Remember when First tried a York-Leeds service in competition with Coastliner? Meanwhile, passengers elsewhere have to suffer.
York1900: to be fair to First (though it grates!), bus routes are in law open to any operator. In practice is a different story, as you mention. One downside of deregulation is no commercial incentive except on already well-served corridors. Remember when First tried a York-Leeds service in competition with Coastliner? Meanwhile, passengers elsewhere have to suffer. old_geezer

2:09pm Wed 12 Dec 12

PKH says...

old_geezer wrote:
Since Julian Sturdy's party removed any meaningful power over buses from councils in 1986 explicitly to let the market decide to run services on commercial grounds, it's a bit rich for him to complain about First doing exactly that.
My sentiments exactly, and both the LibDem and Labour both said they would improve bus services before they won control of York but Thatcher's Tory government ensured there is no legal powers to do this, with First only pay lip service to their requests.
[quote][p][bold]old_geezer[/bold] wrote: Since Julian Sturdy's party removed any meaningful power over buses from councils in 1986 explicitly to let the market decide to run services on commercial grounds, it's a bit rich for him to complain about First doing exactly that.[/p][/quote]My sentiments exactly, and both the LibDem and Labour both said they would improve bus services before they won control of York but Thatcher's Tory government ensured there is no legal powers to do this, with First only pay lip service to their requests. PKH

7:13pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Whoreallycares says...

York1900 wrote:
First change there services every couple of years to try and get the council to give them a subsidy to run services

First have in the past run other operators out by running services at a loss or running buses in the same livery
All bus routes in York should be open to all operators to run services and brake First monopoly over bus services in York



.
All bus routes are open to other operators, they simply have to register a service, and in 56 days they can operate the timetable registered.
[quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: First change there services every couple of years to try and get the council to give them a subsidy to run services First have in the past run other operators out by running services at a loss or running buses in the same livery All bus routes in York should be open to all operators to run services and brake First monopoly over bus services in York .[/p][/quote]All bus routes are open to other operators, they simply have to register a service, and in 56 days they can operate the timetable registered. Whoreallycares

11:23pm Wed 12 Dec 12

daveyboy25 says...

If transdev take it over it will be every 2 hours be careful what you wish for
If transdev take it over it will be every 2 hours be careful what you wish for daveyboy25

3:50am Fri 14 Dec 12

Magicman! says...

Transdev are running the 44, and in comparison to when it started out with Pullman running it, the subsidy has much reduced and it is almost now entirely commercial. What is happening is that it is gradually pushing out First off what was once its most profitable route in York.

The problem is that normally if another company comes in, First will lower their fares to a base price where they still technically make profit but due to them being a larger operation can undercut the smaller company and so the smaller company withdraws from the fight. Currently our only hope is if either a big company like Go-Ahead or Stagecoach move in and create a rival operation, possibly to create an outstation close to Leeds in case Metro introduces Quality Contracts; or alternatively First sells off the York depot to Stagecoach or Go-Ahead (if SG got it they'd likely send down surplus buses from Newcastle, which whilst not new are still better vehicles than the Volvo's we have in York... I'd rather have the MAN buses they used to use on the Metrocentre shuttles over the Wright single deckers we have on the 4 or 5 currently).

Transdev's 2-hourly services were run entirely commercially - they couldn't afford to run more buses on those sunday services because nobody was using them (and yes a 2-hourly service in response to under-use is a bit contradictory!) - it is only recently that they have been re-subsidised by the council. And lets remember Transdev only run those sunday services because First decided it didn't want to run the routes even though the council was PAYING them to do so - just the same as evening services on the 10 - as pointed out in a rather long comment here: http://www.northernr
ailways.co.uk/forum/
viewtopic.php?p=1447
57#p144757

btw, has anybody noticed that Firstgroups repainting of York buses has stalled? we have all the 07-reg ex-rotherham 'deckers painted and two of the original 12 york 51-reg 'deckers painted but no more has been done in over a month. Could this be a sign of something else?

Another question: can this petition against the bus service cuts be extended to Huntington so we can sign against the recent cuts to the new number 1 and to the 5 not being timed properly in the evening to co-operate with the 13 (as pointed out in the external link, with the new info to me that returns from the city are now just as bad too)

West Yorkshire and Sheffield have/had been trying for bus Quality Contracts. Both are areas where First is the primary bus operator - manchester hasn't had to go this way for example. Over the last 15 years or so Firstgroup have been systemmatically slicing up the bus infastructure and doing customers over, giving them a worse service for more money. It's about time more places adopted Quality Contracts or compulsory legally-binding Quality Bus Partnerships to force First into providing something similar to a decent level of service at affordable prices... and if First doesn't like it they'd sell the depot and move on, giving us a better bus company such as Go-Ahead. In the extarnal link the poster predicts that due to their own greed, First won't be operating buses in 10 years time due to other companies swallowing up their operations and then running successful operations against them. This I would like to see!
Transdev are running the 44, and in comparison to when it started out with Pullman running it, the subsidy has much reduced and it is almost now entirely commercial. What is happening is that it is gradually pushing out First off what was once its most profitable route in York. The problem is that normally if another company comes in, First will lower their fares to a base price where they still technically make profit but due to them being a larger operation can undercut the smaller company and so the smaller company withdraws from the fight. Currently our only hope is if either a big company like Go-Ahead or Stagecoach move in and create a rival operation, possibly to create an outstation close to Leeds in case Metro introduces Quality Contracts; or alternatively First sells off the York depot to Stagecoach or Go-Ahead (if SG got it they'd likely send down surplus buses from Newcastle, which whilst not new are still better vehicles than the Volvo's we have in York... I'd rather have the MAN buses they used to use on the Metrocentre shuttles over the Wright single deckers we have on the 4 or 5 currently). Transdev's 2-hourly services were run entirely commercially - they couldn't afford to run more buses on those sunday services because nobody was using them (and yes a 2-hourly service in response to under-use is a bit contradictory!) - it is only recently that they have been re-subsidised by the council. And lets remember Transdev only run those sunday services because First decided it didn't want to run the routes even though the council was PAYING them to do so - just the same as evening services on the 10 - as pointed out in a rather long comment here: http://www.northernr ailways.co.uk/forum/ viewtopic.php?p=1447 57#p144757 btw, has anybody noticed that Firstgroups repainting of York buses has stalled? we have all the 07-reg ex-rotherham 'deckers painted and two of the original 12 york 51-reg 'deckers painted but no more has been done in over a month. Could this be a sign of something else? Another question: can this petition against the bus service cuts be extended to Huntington so we can sign against the recent cuts to the new number 1 and to the 5 not being timed properly in the evening to co-operate with the 13 (as pointed out in the external link, with the new info to me that returns from the city are now just as bad too) West Yorkshire and Sheffield have/had been trying for bus Quality Contracts. Both are areas where First is the primary bus operator - manchester hasn't had to go this way for example. Over the last 15 years or so Firstgroup have been systemmatically slicing up the bus infastructure and doing customers over, giving them a worse service for more money. It's about time more places adopted Quality Contracts or compulsory legally-binding Quality Bus Partnerships to force First into providing something similar to a decent level of service at affordable prices... and if First doesn't like it they'd sell the depot and move on, giving us a better bus company such as Go-Ahead. In the extarnal link the poster predicts that due to their own greed, First won't be operating buses in 10 years time due to other companies swallowing up their operations and then running successful operations against them. This I would like to see! Magicman!

11:57am Fri 14 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

After receiving a response from Cllr Alexander I withdraw most of my previous post!

Seems they are trying doing something to sort the buses and I await further information.
After receiving a response from Cllr Alexander I withdraw most of my previous post! Seems they are trying doing something to sort the buses and I await further information. M.Lucas

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree