Council ‘could run the buses’ (From York Press)

City of York Council ‘could run the buses’

9:29am Saturday 24th November 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Mark Stead, Political Reporter

YORK’S transport bosses could seize control of the city’s bus network if attempts to boost passenger numbers fail.

A bus improvement study commissioned by City of York Council has claimed the city’s Quality Bus Partnership (QBP) lacks "focus and dynamism" and must be overhauled, after figures showed the number of passengers has flatlined despite the authority’s attempts to promote public transport.

Research by Julian Ridge Transport Planning Ltd and the TAS Partnership said York’s services were “patchy” and there was “widespread dissatisfaction” over areas such as fares and evening and Sunday service levels.

It has recommended fresh agreements between the council and bus firms to improve standards, considering inviting major employers and other transport companies to join the QBP and closer inspection of “performance data” such as delays and timekeeping.

If this does not work, the report says the council should look at a Quality Contract Scheme, allowing it to lay down rules about how the network is organised and operated and to regulate routes and fares.

It said the council should start to “build knowledge” about these powers so it can apply for them if necessary.

The study revealed York’s bus passenger numbers over the last five years had been “broadly flat” despite population growth, and the council was “currently dependent on operator goodwill” to implement transport policy.

It said the authority could now fund major bus improvements following millions of pounds in external funding and it should carry out a full review of the bus network. looking at areas such as more “integration” between Park&Ride buses and other services.

Coun Tracey Simpson-Laing, the council’s deputy leader, said: “Our first priority is to set out a bus strategy, in conjunction with the QBP, making clear exactly what is expected from bus services across the city.”

She said performance could then be assessed against targets, adding: “Only where this is not delivering results will we pursue a Quality Contract Scheme, which would give the council more powers over bus services, including frequency and routes.

“But key to improving the bus service is the council and bus companies working constructively together, ultimately leading to increased patronage, which is in everybody’s interests.”

Comments(39)

krites says...
9:49am Sat 24 Nov 12

Can York's bus services ever be really attractive until they enjoy a real priority through the inner-city area so that reliable and quick journeys are possible?

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heworth.28 says...
9:55am Sat 24 Nov 12

Another triumph for privatisation... not that this council can be relied on to come up with anything better unfortunately.

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Oaklands Resident says...
10:02am Sat 24 Nov 12

The present York Council couldn’t run a bath!

Fresh from a disastrous 18 months running down York’s housing services; it appears that Cllr Laing now wants to hasten the decline of our bus services.

Like it or not, the consultant’s report – which you spent tens of thousands of pounds on – and now published on the Council’s web site, says that local bus services are about average in terms of frequency and cost. In the small number of areas with more frequent services, taxpayer’s subsidies are much higher.

…and you’ve now squandered what financial flexibility you had, so you couldn’t afford to introduce a franchised network even if the government judged the present system to be failing.

So confident were you about the report you decided to consider it at a private meeting.

You have so little interest in passenger’s views.

Bring back annual Council elections!

Report this post »

capt spaulding says...
10:05am Sat 24 Nov 12

If they run it as well as the Bonfire night celebrations it will be a cracker.

Report this post »

chillout says...
10:07am Sat 24 Nov 12

Get York Station area,Crichton Ave and Clarence Street and Wiggy Road area sorted out, along with Coppergate and that may help !! As a Bus Driver in York in my opinion these are the hot spots for severe congestion.

Report this post »

powerwatt says...
11:46am Sat 24 Nov 12

Jees! Of all bad ideas the council could come up with on how to screw things up. Running the bus is high on the list.

They would struggle with a **** up in a brewery. Running the buses would guarantee late buses, not going where you want them to go, costing 10 times as much with the luxury of loads of bureaucracy.

Genius.

Report this post »

bob the builder says...
12:08pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Perhaps TSL could get off her bike and use the buses, she'd realise that CofYC would struggle to provide a service, never mind a better service. People in glass houses....

Report this post »

Sillybillies says...
12:55pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Bring back annual Council elections!

When exactly did we ever have them?

Report this post »

xtc says...
1:26pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Oh god nooooooo!please don't let em ruin anymore!

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Buzz Light-year says...
1:37pm Sat 24 Nov 12

City of York Council ‘could run the buses’

More bad proofreading from The Press.
They missed out the "i" in the sixth word.

Report this post »

inthesticks says...
3:00pm Sat 24 Nov 12

No, it makes perfect sense! TSL is the perfect Olive and JA is Butler! DM is Blakey (obviously) and away we go with another COYC sitcom. Laugh `til your sides hurt.

Report this post »

tobefair says...
3:08pm Sat 24 Nov 12

I always thought that buses were for people who don't own cars and bicycles were for people who can't afford bus fares.

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pedalling paul says...
3:25pm Sat 24 Nov 12

I used the bus today to get into town.......

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M.Lucas says...
3:37pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Hmm maybe if this comes to pass Cllr Alexander can get round to doing something about that campaign he had whilst in opposition. What was it called again...?

Anyone remember?

Oh yes, it was his "Fares Fair Campaign"? One of the many that he began in opposition and then forgot about when he could anything about it.

Anyone wondering, his campaign is still active at yorkfaresfair.wordpr
ess.com

Campaigned for 3 things and he's failed on all three...

Report this post »

postie28 says...
6:37pm Sat 24 Nov 12

well i use buses very frequently. never a problem with transdev, coastliner or east yorks buses. however i find first york to be totally useless. buses run late or simply don't run at all, some drivers are rude, arrogant and display a couldn't care less attitude towards customers . when you complain first york blame everything on driver sickness or road congestion. so i wouldn't blame coyc if they booted first out of york.

Report this post »

Haywire says...
7:43pm Sat 24 Nov 12

chillout wrote:
Get York Station area,Crichton Ave and Clarence Street and Wiggy Road area sorted out, along with Coppergate and that may help !! As a Bus Driver in York in my opinion these are the hot spots for severe congestion.

Well said that man!

Report this post »

velvetdixie says...
8:12pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Oh Goody!

Now let's spend a half-million on some big signs:

"People's Republic of York" welcomes you"

Report this post »

was york now rotherham says...
9:34pm Sat 24 Nov 12

York has not had a propper Bus service since the hopper's were introduced back in the 1980's after they came and went yorks public transport
inf$ckedstructure has gon t!ts up and if the council are thinking on takeing it on god help the bus drivers good or bad youl get finnished after all dose'nt the council need to make cut back so selling off buses would save them a pound or two in wages

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Oaklands Resident says...
8:18am Sun 25 Nov 12

Sillybillies wrote:

Bring back annual Council elections!

When exactly did we ever have them?

Until 1995

Report this post »

just avin a nosey says...
1:48pm Sun 25 Nov 12

I like the advert on Minster FM that says First Bus Co believe that you should be able to have a snooze on the way home on the bus. Clearly not the same bus I have endured on the way back from town!!!!! Laughable, buses are a nightmare in every respect.

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Sillybillies says...
4:39pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Oaklands Resident says...
8:18am Sun 25 Nov 12
Sillybillies wrote:

Bring back annual Council elections!

When exactly did we ever have them?
Until 1995

I don't think so, not to my knowledge.

Report this post »

daveyboy25 says...
6:59pm Sun 25 Nov 12

One reason for over priced fares late running and over crowding its called pensioners

Report this post »

postie28 says...
7:25pm Sun 25 Nov 12

daveyboy25 wrote:
One reason for over priced fares late running and over crowding its called pensioners

so when you're a pensioner , you wont be using buses then ?

Report this post »

anistasia says...
8:00pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Something needs to be done my father lives on the old number 12 route now an hourly service he's on medication and as other health problems now the buses are only one an hour if he can't get on the bus he needs because it's to full because twice as many people need the same bus he can't stand out in the cold and because his medication his blood is thin and he feels the cold it's not good for him hope a reliable 30 minutes bus service starts running again down Wheatfield lane.I speak here on one route but I speak for most bus users just give a good service what ever the number/route

Report this post »

Magicman! says...
4:02am Mon 26 Nov 12

powerwatt wrote:
Jees! Of all bad ideas the council could come up with on how to screw things up. Running the bus is high on the list.

They would struggle with a **** up in a brewery. Running the buses would guarantee late buses, not going where you want them to go, costing 10 times as much with the luxury of loads of bureaucracy.

Genius.

so essentially it'd be like what we have now but with a few more sheets of paper involved.

Report this post »

Magicman! says...
4:17am Mon 26 Nov 12

postie28 wrote:
well i use buses very frequently. never a problem with transdev, coastliner or east yorks buses. however i find first york to be totally useless. buses run late or simply don't run at all, some drivers are rude, arrogant and display a couldn't care less attitude towards customers . when you complain first york blame everything on driver sickness or road congestion. so i wouldn't blame coyc if they booted first out of york.

Exactly.

There have been a few places that have considered compulsory bus operator cooperation with the local authority, whether this be by Quality Contracts (franchising) or by a mandatory Quality Partnership (York's current QBP is voluntary and so has no legal whack at all)... the three main areas I will consider are Newcastle, Sheffield, and West Yorkshire.

Newcastle has a very good bus network, with many varied types and colours of buses running, most routes to a frequency of at least every 30 minutes to after 6pm. Key routes have nice new buses on them, with a general policy of buses never being older than 8 years on the busier routes. Nexus, the PTE for the area has been looking at QC's but it starting to think about other ideas instead.

Sheffield's bus network consists of two main operators... one ties in buses with trams and offers integrated fares, with new eco buses on popular routes like in Newcastle, and other routes having fairly modern buses too. The other operator's network is on the fragmented side of things. Travel South Yorkshire (the PTE) looked at QC's but instead went for a mandatory Quality Bus Partnership which carries a similar legal weight and allows the PTE to lay down the law.

West Yorkshire has several different operators, which has increased over recent years as the primary operator has been dropping routes that are not uber-profitable. There is a lack of inter-operator ticking, and due to the primary operator deciding it can't be bothered to run evening services on a few routes there is a situation like in York with the 10 whereby people going to work in the morning get one operators bus but have to get a different one in the evening and thus require two different tickets. Metro is seriously considering Quality Contracts, as they are stating all other options have failed to improve the situation.

The primary operator in Newcastle is the Go-Ahead group, with Stagecoach in 2nd place; the primary operator in Sheffield is Firstgroup, with Stagecoach being the one that integrates with their trams; the primary operator in West Yorkshire is Firstgroup, with other operators like Centrebus taking on the route First couldn't be bothered with.

The simple fact is this: where Firstgroup is the primary operator, the bus network is a shambles. And whilst there may be some First drivers on here who do not fit in with the following statement, there are a lot of drivers who do not have the correct discipline on how to provide a good service - drivers who on catching up with the bus in front would rather sit right behind the late bus and never overtake it so that they don't have to pick up any passengers and thus have an easy run to Haxby or Strensall.
That is just one example.

[quote][p][bold]postie28[/bold] wrote: well i use buses very frequently. never a problem with transdev, coastliner or east yorks buses. however i find first york to be totally useless. buses run late or simply don't run at all, some drivers are rude, arrogant and display a couldn't care less attitude towards customers . when you complain first york blame everything on driver sickness or road congestion. so i wouldn't blame coyc if they booted first out of york.[/p][/quote]Exactly. There have been a few places that have considered compulsory bus operator cooperation with the local authority, whether this be by Quality Contracts (franchising) or by a mandatory Quality Partnership (York's current QBP is voluntary and so has no legal whack at all)... the three main areas I will consider are Newcastle, Sheffield, and West Yorkshire. Newcastle has a very good bus network, with many varied types and colours of buses running, most routes to a frequency of at least every 30 minutes to after 6pm. Key routes have nice new buses on them, with a general policy of buses never being older than 8 years on the busier routes. Nexus, the PTE for the area has been looking at QC's but it starting to think about other ideas instead. Sheffield's bus network consists of two main operators... one ties in buses with trams and offers integrated fares, with new eco buses on popular routes like in Newcastle, and other routes having fairly modern buses too. The other operator's network is on the fragmented side of things. Travel South Yorkshire (the PTE) looked at QC's but instead went for a mandatory Quality Bus Partnership which carries a similar legal weight and allows the PTE to lay down the law. West Yorkshire has several different operators, which has increased over recent years as the primary operator has been dropping routes that are not uber-profitable. There is a lack of inter-operator ticking, and due to the primary operator deciding it can't be bothered to run evening services on a few routes there is a situation like in York with the 10 whereby people going to work in the morning get one operators bus but have to get a different one in the evening and thus require two different tickets. Metro is seriously considering Quality Contracts, as they are stating all other options have failed to improve the situation. The primary operator in Newcastle is the Go-Ahead group, with Stagecoach in 2nd place; the primary operator in Sheffield is Firstgroup, with Stagecoach being the one that integrates with their trams; the primary operator in West Yorkshire is Firstgroup, with other operators like Centrebus taking on the route First couldn't be bothered with. The simple fact is this: where Firstgroup is the primary operator, the bus network is a shambles. And whilst there may be some First drivers on here who do not fit in with the following statement, there are a lot of drivers who do not have the correct discipline on how to provide a good service - drivers who on catching up with the bus in front would rather sit right behind the late bus and never overtake it so that they don't have to pick up any passengers and thus have an easy run to Haxby or Strensall. That is just one example. Magicman!

Report this post »

Magicman! says...
4:23am Mon 26 Nov 12

chillout wrote:
Get York Station area,Crichton Ave and Clarence Street and Wiggy Road area sorted out, along with Coppergate and that may help !! As a Bus Driver in York in my opinion these are the hot spots for severe congestion.

York station is caused by the Gyratory lights going to red too soon for traffic coming from the station, and in the other direction is caused by what can only be described as a cluster of pedestrian crossings.... all of which refuse to give traffic a green light if some pedestrian runs out into the road on a red man signal.

Crichton Ave, Wiggy road and Clarence street are all the same queue... mainly caused by the Clarence Street and Lord Mayors Walk junction. For a trial, I think all traffic except public transport and cycles should be banned from Gillygate for 6 months, and diverted around Lord Mayors Walk, Foss Bank, Foss Islands, Paragon Street, Fishergate, and Nunnery Lane - all with traffic light sequences adjusted to reflect increased traffic flows and a supporting 6 month ban on unauthorised traffic along Tower Street and Ouse Bridge.... The majority of this traffic that goes through the centre of the city simply comes in one side and out the other - so by rerouting it along streets more likely to cope would bring about a better situation in the city centre.

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Magicman! says...
4:26am Mon 26 Nov 12

postie28 wrote:

daveyboy25 wrote:
One reason for over priced fares late running and over crowding its called pensioners
so when you're a pensioner , you wont be using buses then ?

For every OAP that gets on a bus, the bus company is only refunded up to 60% of the fare, but most of the time not even that. The rest of the fare is made up by increased fares for every paying passenger... so if you pay a fare you can rightfully state that you have paid the fare for at least one OAP on board as well as yourself. Free bus passes were hastily introduced and not thought out properly... and we live in austere times yet this money drain has not yet been stopped.

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anistasia says...
5:49am Mon 26 Nov 12

What we do need in York someone to challenge the first bus company it's to big country wide buses and trains.you can use first buses in most other places no problem but because the company is too big anyone who challenges them as no chance because first can afford to bring its prices down cheaper than anyone elses so people use the cheaper service the other bus companies run at a loss give up the route then first can change fares and timetables and they know if you don't like the service what do they care they just put on less buses.yes I am disabled have a buspass but don't use it much as buses don't get me to where I need to be and not having a standard wheelchair I can't use my wheelchair on a bus.but people who say that passes should be taken away if you do that most people who use them if the passes are taken away it would be like having their freedom taken away.

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Gary Gilmores Eyes says...
8:25am Mon 26 Nov 12

Finally a job that James Alexander may be able to do with any competence!

Clean buses.

Time to resign from that job you have now James and do a real job that you could have pride in and that is not above your abilities!

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MrsHoney says...
8:45am Mon 26 Nov 12

In theory it's a good idea. When I first moved to York the bus I got to work was council run and was amazingly reliable. Shortly after however it was taken over by another bus company and it was pot luck whether it actually turned up or not. It also dropped the morning service meaning I had no choice but to walk to work. Which actually wasn't so bad, but 2 1/2 miles on a day like today when it's windy and raining isn't much fun.

Whether our present council would be capable is another matter. Given their performance so far I wouldn't hold out much hope.

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anistasia says...
8:51am Mon 26 Nov 12

Any reliable bus service is better then none at all

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meme says...
5:11pm Mon 26 Nov 12

Please dont take it over as a council run operation it would be hopeless.
I use the bus in York mainly on Bishopthorpe/Tadcast
er road run and its fine; Its frequent and reasonable price.
Please dont fiddle because you think you can do better because I guarantee you wont

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Whoreallycares says...
8:40pm Mon 26 Nov 12

York has always seemed to be one of the worst places to operate buses.

I remember the "Good Old Days" of the National Bus Company (West Yorkshire) and York City Council Joint Services, it was an absolute shambles, the worst NBC subsidary I ever worked in.

Agree with MagicMan to a certain extent, the traffic management in York is a little odd.

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MadHaxMan says...
3:27pm Thu 29 Nov 12

What complete tosh daveyboy25 and Magicman post regarding pensioners using bus passes. Their points would only be valid if the buses were constantly unable to pick up fare-paying passengers because they were full-up with pensioners, and in my many months of using my pass, this has only ever happened once out of well over a hundred journeys. The pensioners are almost always occupying seats that would otherwise be left empty, and I am **** sure that the bus operator would rather get a part-fare than nothing at all. If Cameron or whatever other political spiv wins the next election, and does away with the bus pass scheme, I reckon you will quickly say goodbye to half the current buses and routes being operated now.

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greenmonkey says...
4:30pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Leaving aside the question of pensioners, I think Magicmans ideas deserve looking at. Gillygate would have to allow access for emergency vehicles but otherwise re-routing through traffic and giving priority to circular movement, except for buses cutting across the centre could help everyone. When Gillygate was closed for gas works and resurfacing some of the cross town traffic re- routed and traffic levels overall were down. Only main disadvantage would be more taxis and others rat running in city centre back streets such as the cut through between Walmgate and Piccadilly.

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hikerman says...
11:10am Fri 30 Nov 12

York council will do a excellent job running the bus service don't know why so many people complain about York council.

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meme says...
4:13pm Fri 30 Nov 12

hikerman says...
11:10am Fri 30 Nov 12

York council will do a excellent job running the bus service don't know why so many people complain about York council.

Dear Hikerman
Have you just beamed into York from another planet?
There is very little the council get right if its anything more taxing than making sure traffic lights work

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ozo_born_and_bred says...
6:01pm Fri 30 Nov 12

The traffic light system in York needs looking at..

More traffic wardens or someone in authority to book anyone who impedes yellow box junctions.

Too much traffic comes through city centre because it takes too long on ring road.

Vehicles off loading at all times of day causing congestion,especiall
y on ouse bridge outside TESCO's.

This would be a start to improving "Time Keeping"

And of course not forgetting the school runs...

But as we know CYC won't ban traffic coming into York because of York traders,so bus companies are in a no win situation

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