Fulford residents ‘will be left stranded by bus change’

PLANNED cuts to a York bus route will leave Fulford residents unable to travel to the university’s new sports village, a councillor has claimed.

Coastliner wants to shorten the route of its Number 20 service, which currently operates between Acomb and Fulford via Poppleton, Clifton Moor, Haxby, Monks Cross, Heworth and Heslington East Campus, said Fulford member Keith Aspden.

Coun Aspden said the plans, scheduled to come into effect in January, involved buses stopping at Heslington Hall and no longer serving the Heslington Lane and Broadway area.

“This means there will be no bus service between Fulford and the York Sport Village, the new £9 million sports facility on the Heslington East Campus,” he said.

“I know that there are punctuality problems with the Number 20 service and the long route around York has proved difficult since the last timetable changes. However, I would be extremely concerned about cutting the service short so that the Heslington Lane area was left out.

“This is the only public transport service that runs from the Fulford area to the new swimming and sports facilities at Heslington East.”

Valerie Swaby and Peter Richardson, both of Heath Moor Drive, Fulford, also complained about the proposals, saying they would push some residents into using their cars, while others without cars would be deprived of shopping at their preferred supermarket.

They said they knew of 20 to 30 people in the area who used the service – mostly elderly people, who did not drive and who could not carry full shopping bags for any distance.

Coastliner spokesman Paul Hodgson said the route reduction was planned because of punctuality problems which had arisen along the route over the past few months.

He said it was an extremely long route, and taking Fulford out of it would provide more time for buses to arrive punctually elsewhere on the route. Although the company accepted the changes would cause inconvenience for residents, the Fulford stretch was the most lightly used section of the current route.

Comments (14)

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11:10am Mon 19 Nov 12

Osbaldwick Lad says...

I believe that this service runs with financial support from the City Council but the article contains no comments from this source. I do use this service but not in the section to be cut.

I feel that the principle behind the service is good and that usage is capable of much expansion. However, service 20 has been poorly advertised and I have made this point to both the City Council and Transdev. I do not remember any mention in The Press when it was introduced and many passengers heard about it by word of mouth.

Recently I heard a person at a bus stop on Alcuin Avenue ask a First driver about a bus to Fulford and he said that he had never heard of it.

An alternative to shortening the route could be to use an additional bus and extend the route to the Designer Outlet. I would certainly use it.
I believe that this service runs with financial support from the City Council but the article contains no comments from this source. I do use this service but not in the section to be cut. I feel that the principle behind the service is good and that usage is capable of much expansion. However, service 20 has been poorly advertised and I have made this point to both the City Council and Transdev. I do not remember any mention in The Press when it was introduced and many passengers heard about it by word of mouth. Recently I heard a person at a bus stop on Alcuin Avenue ask a First driver about a bus to Fulford and he said that he had never heard of it. An alternative to shortening the route could be to use an additional bus and extend the route to the Designer Outlet. I would certainly use it. Osbaldwick Lad
  • Score: 0

4:04am Tue 20 Nov 12

Magicman! says...

Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres.

The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait.
Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev?

And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council.
Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres. The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait. Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev? And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

9:32am Tue 20 Nov 12

sometimes i tell the truth says...

“This means there will be no bus service between Fulford and the York Sport Village, the new £9 million sports facility on the Heslington East Campus,” he said.

Bit of a red herring? Route 20 wouldn't get you to the Sport Village anyway. It goes to the Heslington East campus, you've still got quite a trek from there.
“This means there will be no bus service between Fulford and the York Sport Village, the new £9 million sports facility on the Heslington East Campus,” he said. Bit of a red herring? Route 20 wouldn't get you to the Sport Village anyway. It goes to the Heslington East campus, you've still got quite a trek from there. sometimes i tell the truth
  • Score: 0

7:53pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Whoreallycares says...

Magicman! wrote:
Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres.

The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait.
Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev?

And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council.
this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?

Would this bring in an extra £100,000 pa to cover the additional operational costs???

This portion of the route does not form part of the tender, and the demand is not there. The sensible option is to terminate at Heslington Hall and run it in a reliable fashion.


Yet again Magicboy is showing a disturbing amount of naivety, stick to the bus pictures....
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres. The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait. Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev? And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council.[/p][/quote]this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money? Would this bring in an extra £100,000 pa to cover the additional operational costs??? This portion of the route does not form part of the tender, and the demand is not there. The sensible option is to terminate at Heslington Hall and run it in a reliable fashion. Yet again Magicboy is showing a disturbing amount of naivety, stick to the bus pictures.... Whoreallycares
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

Osbaldwick Lad wrote:
I believe that this service runs with financial support from the City Council but the article contains no comments from this source. I do use this service but not in the section to be cut.

I feel that the principle behind the service is good and that usage is capable of much expansion. However, service 20 has been poorly advertised and I have made this point to both the City Council and Transdev. I do not remember any mention in The Press when it was introduced and many passengers heard about it by word of mouth.

Recently I heard a person at a bus stop on Alcuin Avenue ask a First driver about a bus to Fulford and he said that he had never heard of it.

An alternative to shortening the route could be to use an additional bus and extend the route to the Designer Outlet. I would certainly use it.
I also use the 20 In Osbaldwick and i did suggest about the designer outlet then it would be a Shopper service But Transdev and Council said they did think about it when it got extended to Fulford but they couldn't afford another bus and it is lightly used in Fulford people only seem to get on in Fulford on the 9 o'clock journey so they must go like once a month and 24/26 is a very good service and people can still go to Tesco on 26 and Acomb on 24/26 so before it was 55 and before that was 27/28 and before was 28/29 nobody used these services they was always empty so i don't see any problem with cutting it although if the council funded 19B/19L when it was Transdev York then 20 Would be on time as it connected with them at Fulford to go to York and Skelton
[quote][p][bold]Osbaldwick Lad[/bold] wrote: I believe that this service runs with financial support from the City Council but the article contains no comments from this source. I do use this service but not in the section to be cut. I feel that the principle behind the service is good and that usage is capable of much expansion. However, service 20 has been poorly advertised and I have made this point to both the City Council and Transdev. I do not remember any mention in The Press when it was introduced and many passengers heard about it by word of mouth. Recently I heard a person at a bus stop on Alcuin Avenue ask a First driver about a bus to Fulford and he said that he had never heard of it. An alternative to shortening the route could be to use an additional bus and extend the route to the Designer Outlet. I would certainly use it.[/p][/quote]I also use the 20 In Osbaldwick and i did suggest about the designer outlet then it would be a Shopper service But Transdev and Council said they did think about it when it got extended to Fulford but they couldn't afford another bus and it is lightly used in Fulford people only seem to get on in Fulford on the 9 o'clock journey so they must go like once a month and 24/26 is a very good service and people can still go to Tesco on 26 and Acomb on 24/26 so before it was 55 and before that was 27/28 and before was 28/29 nobody used these services they was always empty so i don't see any problem with cutting it although if the council funded 19B/19L when it was Transdev York then 20 Would be on time as it connected with them at Fulford to go to York and Skelton bicky98
  • Score: 0

9:04pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

I have Suggested Loads on Idears to Transdev even to Connect to Service 15 and make it Transdev since council pay for it but i have sent them timetables but they just don't listen
I have Suggested Loads on Idears to Transdev even to Connect to Service 15 and make it Transdev since council pay for it but i have sent them timetables but they just don't listen bicky98
  • Score: 0

9:05pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Stevie D says...

Whoreallycares wrote:
this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?

By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis.
[quote][bold]Whoreallycares[/bold] wrote: this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?[/quote] By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis. Stevie D
  • Score: 0

9:09pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

The 20 Service is a Successful Service for Passenger numbers anyway
The 20 Service is a Successful Service for Passenger numbers anyway bicky98
  • Score: 0

9:14pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

sometimes i tell the truth wrote:
“This means there will be no bus service between Fulford and the York Sport Village, the new £9 million sports facility on the Heslington East Campus,” he said.

Bit of a red herring? Route 20 wouldn't get you to the Sport Village anyway. It goes to the Heslington East campus, you've still got quite a trek from there.
I know nobody uses it to There anyway and by using their car what is the problem with that it is Next to the Uni not in York? they is massive Car park and it you want to go there use 24/26 to York then 44 or 14(don't like 14)

Poppleton
[quote][p][bold]sometimes i tell the truth[/bold] wrote: “This means there will be no bus service between Fulford and the York Sport Village, the new £9 million sports facility on the Heslington East Campus,” he said. Bit of a red herring? Route 20 wouldn't get you to the Sport Village anyway. It goes to the Heslington East campus, you've still got quite a trek from there.[/p][/quote]I know nobody uses it to There anyway and by using their car what is the problem with that it is Next to the Uni not in York? they is massive Car park and it you want to go there use 24/26 to York then 44 or 14(don't like 14) Poppleton bicky98
  • Score: 0

9:15pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

People in Poppleton arnt complaining although i don't know what the route change is up there i am guessing it will just go Via Long Ridge Lane
People in Poppleton arnt complaining although i don't know what the route change is up there i am guessing it will just go Via Long Ridge Lane bicky98
  • Score: 0

9:18pm Tue 20 Nov 12

bicky98 says...

Stevie D wrote:
Whoreallycares wrote:
this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?

By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis.
Transdev and Council was going to do this in August 2011 but couldn't Afford it
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Whoreallycares[/bold] wrote: this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?[/quote] By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis.[/p][/quote]Transdev and Council was going to do this in August 2011 but couldn't Afford it bicky98
  • Score: 0

4:02am Wed 21 Nov 12

Magicman! says...

Whoreallycares wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres.

The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait.
Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev?

And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council.
this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?

Would this bring in an extra £100,000 pa to cover the additional operational costs???

This portion of the route does not form part of the tender, and the demand is not there. The sensible option is to terminate at Heslington Hall and run it in a reliable fashion.


Yet again Magicboy is showing a disturbing amount of naivety, stick to the bus pictures....
So what part of the bus industry do you work in then? or are you just some jumped up little teenager with a bedroom full of timetables?? If everybody stuck to the bare minumum and nothing else we'd live in a very cold society, and every bus network would be run like Firstgroup does it! And if you're going to quote my name, at least quote it properly otherwise it makes you look immature as though you can't even remember somebody's name! -_-

And just FYI let's remember the 20 did for a while pool buses with the 19 so as to add extra minutes into the timetable, and it did make things reliable. Was it "part of the tender"? No it was not, but it was done anyway TO SERVE MORE POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. Which is what buisness is about. If you cannot grasp that I suggest you go back to college.
[quote][p][bold]Whoreallycares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: Exactly... make it a "centrelink" sort of service, connecting the three main orbital shopping centres. The current timetable does not have enough padding, which means buses can be running 20 minutes late by 11am and getting worse through the day. So by extending to the Designer outlet with additional padding (let's say 15-20 minutes for a drivers break) would add 30-40 mins onto the route time; then add in some padding at monks cross (8 mins), and again at clifton moor (8 mins), and then fill the rest of the hour with padding at acomb shops or askham bar (if this is the extended service) and you'd still have the hourly frequency but with added reliability and the padding at the intermediate areas would be enough to keep the service on time but not so much that on-board passengers get annoyed at waiting if the bus arrives on time then has to wait. Anybody fancy writing that in a letter to Transdev? And yes the 20 is run with financial assistance from the council.[/p][/quote]this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money? Would this bring in an extra £100,000 pa to cover the additional operational costs??? This portion of the route does not form part of the tender, and the demand is not there. The sensible option is to terminate at Heslington Hall and run it in a reliable fashion. Yet again Magicboy is showing a disturbing amount of naivety, stick to the bus pictures....[/p][/quote]So what part of the bus industry do you work in then? or are you just some jumped up little teenager with a bedroom full of timetables?? If everybody stuck to the bare minumum and nothing else we'd live in a very cold society, and every bus network would be run like Firstgroup does it! And if you're going to quote my name, at least quote it properly otherwise it makes you look immature as though you can't even remember somebody's name! -_- And just FYI let's remember the 20 did for a while pool buses with the 19 so as to add extra minutes into the timetable, and it did make things reliable. Was it "part of the tender"? No it was not, but it was done anyway TO SERVE MORE POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. Which is what buisness is about. If you cannot grasp that I suggest you go back to college. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

4:08am Wed 21 Nov 12

Magicman! says...

Stevie D wrote:
Whoreallycares wrote:
this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?

By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis.
Indeed, and as I suggested in my previous post before it was trolled by somebody who has nothing better to do than belittle those who actually put their brain to good use, I gave between 30-40 minutes to travel from fulford broadway to the designer outlet and back to broadway, which would likely be enough time as most queues on Fulford Road go from the Broadway lights back into the city. And depending on how the traffic is flowing, there is a redundant bus gate to the designer outlet on the Naburn Road which has been unused since the number 9 switched ends of the car parking areas, and this would bypass the A64 junction.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Whoreallycares[/bold] wrote: this is the most ridiculous think I have heard in a long time, why would an operator put a vehicles worth of costs in to serve a marginal part of the route that is not making any money?[/quote] By extending the route through Fulford village and on to the Designer Outlet, you add a lot of potential for extra traffic – people living in Fulford who work or study at the university, and students who work or shop at the Designer Outlet. It's not such a crazy idea, and might be well worth a try, at least on a trial basis.[/p][/quote]Indeed, and as I suggested in my previous post before it was trolled by somebody who has nothing better to do than belittle those who actually put their brain to good use, I gave between 30-40 minutes to travel from fulford broadway to the designer outlet and back to broadway, which would likely be enough time as most queues on Fulford Road go from the Broadway lights back into the city. And depending on how the traffic is flowing, there is a redundant bus gate to the designer outlet on the Naburn Road which has been unused since the number 9 switched ends of the car parking areas, and this would bypass the A64 junction. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

8:14pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Whoreallycares says...

Quote"So what part of the bus industry do you work in then? or are you just some jumped up little teenager with a bedroom full of timetables?? "

Sadly not, over 45 years in the Industry until I retired, having worked all over the UK and abroad, and now a very in demand consultant for a couple of days a week to keep me out of mischief.

I maybe was a little off hand with my reply to your suggestion. It sometimes disturbs me some of the posts I see on here, in the main the bus companies in York do a very good job, including First who are starting to turn the corner (slowly).

Aplolgies
Quote"So what part of the bus industry do you work in then? or are you just some jumped up little teenager with a bedroom full of timetables?? " Sadly not, over 45 years in the Industry until I retired, having worked all over the UK and abroad, and now a very in demand consultant for a couple of days a week to keep me out of mischief. I maybe was a little off hand with my reply to your suggestion. It sometimes disturbs me some of the posts I see on here, in the main the bus companies in York do a very good job, including First who are starting to turn the corner (slowly). Aplolgies Whoreallycares
  • Score: 0

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