York's city centre streets to be be pedestrianised for more hours each week

YORK’S historic city-centre streets are set to become pedestrianised zones for ten-and-a-half more hours a week in a council trial.

A review of the city’s footstreets could also see vehicles blocked from using the entrance to Spurriergate at Nessgate junction overnight, while banning vehicles from Davygate for most of the day is also likely to be tested.

The proposals will go before transport boss Coun Dave Merrett next week.

Transport officials have recommended an “experimental traffic regulation order” of up to 18 months, standardising footstreet hours and extending the times when pedestrians have priority and vehicles are restricted to previously untried levels.

Current footstreet hours are 11am to 4pm, Monday to Friday, 10.30am to 4.30pm on Saturdays and midday to 4pm on Sundays. The new order, if approved, would mean a blanket time of 10.30am to 5pm every day, apart from in Stonegate which already has longer operating hours.

Davygate would be completely shut to vehicles during the new times, also for a trial period, and the one-way system around St Sampson’s Square being altered. Officers said consultation should would be on closing Spurriergate’s entrance from Nessgate to vehicles, except between 7am and 10.30am.

In a written report, traffic network manager Alistair Briggs said extending the hours would make life better for pedestrians in the area.

He said it would encourage residents and visitors to stay in the city centre longer and help its night-time economy.

He said the council could use one of the existing footstreet times every day, rather than having three different periods, but extending the hours would be a “bolder move” which was backed by some businesses.

However, he said a questionnaire sent to all homes and businesses in the footstreets area had indicated some “reticence to change”, meaning extended hours should be an experiment rather than permanent.

If the change is introduced, opening times for pavement cafés and other street activities could also be extended.

Mr Briggs’ report said the Spurriergate/Nessgate junction could be closed to vehicles without preventing access to city-centre properties, as they could use the Parliament Street/High Ousegate junction.

Comments (51)

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10:24am Tue 13 Nov 12

Woody G Mellor says...

This proposal will go through regardless of how the residents or businesses feel. Merritt and his bunch of self-righteous snobs will get their way, mark my words.
This proposal will go through regardless of how the residents or businesses feel. Merritt and his bunch of self-righteous snobs will get their way, mark my words. Woody G Mellor
  • Score: 0

10:28am Tue 13 Nov 12

roskoboskovic says...

the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way. roskoboskovic
  • Score: 0

10:33am Tue 13 Nov 12

again says...

Good news. We need more pedestrianisation and fewer petrol head bullies.
Good news. We need more pedestrianisation and fewer petrol head bullies. again
  • Score: 0

10:36am Tue 13 Nov 12

akuma says...

To be honest the longer restrictions wont really mean anything as most people just ignore the ones that are already there anyway.

Until someone actually enforces the rules that are in place, this will be nothing more than a sign changing exercise.
To be honest the longer restrictions wont really mean anything as most people just ignore the ones that are already there anyway. Until someone actually enforces the rules that are in place, this will be nothing more than a sign changing exercise. akuma
  • Score: 0

10:36am Tue 13 Nov 12

MrsHoney says...

I must admit it doesn't bother me personally but then I don't work in the centre. Surely the streets only need to be open for deliveries and it would be sensible to have those out of shop hours to avoid disruption.

I'm not aware of which areas are residential though and am in 2 minds about that. I think if you want to live in the city centre you shouldn't really expect to be able to drive about any time of the day when there are loads of pedestrians around. Why anyone would WANT to live in the centre is beyond me but if that's what they want they can't expect it to be the same as the suburbs.
I must admit it doesn't bother me personally but then I don't work in the centre. Surely the streets only need to be open for deliveries and it would be sensible to have those out of shop hours to avoid disruption. I'm not aware of which areas are residential though and am in 2 minds about that. I think if you want to live in the city centre you shouldn't really expect to be able to drive about any time of the day when there are loads of pedestrians around. Why anyone would WANT to live in the centre is beyond me but if that's what they want they can't expect it to be the same as the suburbs. MrsHoney
  • Score: 0

10:51am Tue 13 Nov 12

AngryandFrustrated says...

Oh please - "However, he said a questionnaire sent to all homes and businesses in the footstreets area had indicated some “reticence to change” - in other words, yet another proposal not backed by the locals it directly affects.

Please don't dress this up by trying to use the old chestnut of, "He said it would encourage residents and visitors to stay in the city centre longer and help its night-time economy".

No, no it won't. Tell me how? I would be very pleased to see what evidence he has to support his statement. How will an extra hour Mon-Fri and an extra 30 mins on a Saturday help stimulate the night time economy? I am anxious to know, as will every other business in this area as he must have a magic wand! Unless the shops and cafes are suddenly going to extend opening hours, which they won't do for costs and staffing reasons, everything will still shut between 5-7pm.

As for Spurriergate/Nessgat
e - again, please enlighten me as to how shutting this junction will stimulate the night time economy?

CofYC - feel free to tinker and waste tax payers money on hair brained, non essential schemes like this, (as you appear very good at doing) at a time when you are cutting essential front line services, but spare us the ballacks of twee statements trying to justify the expenditure. I have lived in York all my life. I know no-one, be it a resident or a visiting tourist that says, "oooo, quick quick - its 4pm and they are about to allow cars to drive thru' this area - we must leave town immediately".

I despair - I really do. These people are paid our money and this is the best they can do? Give me strength!
Oh please - "However, he said a questionnaire sent to all homes and businesses in the footstreets area had indicated some “reticence to change” - in other words, yet another proposal not backed by the locals it directly affects. Please don't dress this up by trying to use the old chestnut of, "He said it would encourage residents and visitors to stay in the city centre longer and help its night-time economy". No, no it won't. Tell me how? I would be very pleased to see what evidence he has to support his statement. How will an extra hour Mon-Fri and an extra 30 mins on a Saturday help stimulate the night time economy? I am anxious to know, as will every other business in this area as he must have a magic wand! Unless the shops and cafes are suddenly going to extend opening hours, which they won't do for costs and staffing reasons, everything will still shut between 5-7pm. As for Spurriergate/Nessgat e - again, please enlighten me as to how shutting this junction will stimulate the night time economy? CofYC - feel free to tinker and waste tax payers money on hair brained, non essential schemes like this, (as you appear very good at doing) at a time when you are cutting essential front line services, but spare us the ballacks of twee statements trying to justify the expenditure. I have lived in York all my life. I know no-one, be it a resident or a visiting tourist that says, "oooo, quick quick - its 4pm and they are about to allow cars to drive thru' this area - we must leave town immediately". I despair - I really do. These people are paid our money and this is the best they can do? Give me strength! AngryandFrustrated
  • Score: 0

11:02am Tue 13 Nov 12

mrcharly says...

roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
[quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along. mrcharly
  • Score: 0

11:40am Tue 13 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
[quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway! Jazzper
  • Score: 0

12:24pm Tue 13 Nov 12

nasrudin says...

Hopefully it'll be a success and the car free hours can be extended further.

Shouldn't be open as a general route at all -- only for access for residents / deliveries / disabled. Use the ring road if you want to get from one side of town to the other.

Also, the morning deliveries need looking at -- Coney street / High Ousegate are crazy around 9am, with the road and pavements a free for all for parking / pedestrians / bikes / wagons.

Perhaps relax restrictions for deliveries but restrict vehicle size and have a strict "pedestrians have right of way" policy?
Hopefully it'll be a success and the car free hours can be extended further. Shouldn't be open as a general route at all -- only for access for residents / deliveries / disabled. Use the ring road if you want to get from one side of town to the other. Also, the morning deliveries need looking at -- Coney street / High Ousegate are crazy around 9am, with the road and pavements a free for all for parking / pedestrians / bikes / wagons. Perhaps relax restrictions for deliveries but restrict vehicle size and have a strict "pedestrians have right of way" policy? nasrudin
  • Score: 0

12:46pm Tue 13 Nov 12

ReginaldBiscuit says...

Jazzper wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
When was the last time a cyclist killed or seriously injured a pedestrian in York? Then work out the last time a road-vehicle was responsible for the death of a cyclist in York.

The era of mass car usage in its current dimensions is no longer feasible. Cars/trucks are becoming more expensive to run and increasingly clutter up the roads and create problems rather than solving them. Add to that petrol which is becoming more expensive and internationally, a more sought after resource. Things come. Things go. That's life. Everyone will probably have some sort of gas or electrically powered vehicle in the next 20 years anyway.

My own personal view is that everything inside the city walls should be pedestrianised anyway less for bus, taxi and residents who will have that beautifully exclusive right of way to their properties.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway![/p][/quote]When was the last time a cyclist killed or seriously injured a pedestrian in York? Then work out the last time a road-vehicle was responsible for the death of a cyclist in York. The era of mass car usage in its current dimensions is no longer feasible. Cars/trucks are becoming more expensive to run and increasingly clutter up the roads and create problems rather than solving them. Add to that petrol which is becoming more expensive and internationally, a more sought after resource. Things come. Things go. That's life. Everyone will probably have some sort of gas or electrically powered vehicle in the next 20 years anyway. My own personal view is that everything inside the city walls should be pedestrianised anyway less for bus, taxi and residents who will have that beautifully exclusive right of way to their properties. ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: 0

1:00pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Von_Dutch says...

Really people, does there have to be 'uproar' about every little thing? The only people who could possibly object to Davygate being closed are those that use it as a through-route during the day, which they shouldn't be doing anyway.

As to the lengthening of the footstreets hours, anyone who walks round town between 4 and 5pm knows how what was quite a nice pedestrian environment suddenly becomes full of transit vans etc.

I'm all for these proposals and I really can't see that there's much to object to here. In fact for me, extend the footstreets hours further - from 9am till 6pm.
Really people, does there have to be 'uproar' about every little thing? The only people who could possibly object to Davygate being closed are those that use it as a through-route during the day, which they shouldn't be doing anyway. As to the lengthening of the footstreets hours, anyone who walks round town between 4 and 5pm knows how what was quite a nice pedestrian environment suddenly becomes full of transit vans etc. I'm all for these proposals and I really can't see that there's much to object to here. In fact for me, extend the footstreets hours further - from 9am till 6pm. Von_Dutch
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Buzz Light-year says...

I fail to see how extending the hours of pedestrianisation makes anyone a "cycle nazi" or indeed wtf it even has to do with bikes?

The people it will affect most are delivery drivers who are already pushed to get in and out in time.

If they do this they'll need to get Julie out on the streets more and maybe get her some colleagues because it's going to need enforcing.
I fail to see how extending the hours of pedestrianisation makes anyone a "cycle nazi" or indeed wtf it even has to do with bikes? The people it will affect most are delivery drivers who are already pushed to get in and out in time. If they do this they'll need to get Julie out on the streets more and maybe get her some colleagues because it's going to need enforcing. Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

1:09pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Shouter says...

Why doesn't the council go the whole hog and make the whole of the city centre (within the inner ring road) a permanent vehicle-free area?
Why doesn't the council go the whole hog and make the whole of the city centre (within the inner ring road) a permanent vehicle-free area? Shouter
  • Score: 0

1:12pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

In reply to Reg. biscuit....I totally agree with preventing motor vehicles from the centre of York,this should have done long ago, except for a reasonable delivery period. That is a very silly statement for you to make regarding " being killed by a bike ". You can be very badly hurt if you are knocked over by one, especially if you are elderly. Maybe you should try it and see!
In reply to Reg. biscuit....I totally agree with preventing motor vehicles from the centre of York,this should have done long ago, except for a reasonable delivery period. That is a very silly statement for you to make regarding " being killed by a bike ". You can be very badly hurt if you are knocked over by one, especially if you are elderly. Maybe you should try it and see! Jazzper
  • Score: 0

1:24pm Tue 13 Nov 12

eeoodares says...

Jazzper wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
Does this really worry you? grow up!
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway![/p][/quote]Does this really worry you? grow up! eeoodares
  • Score: -1

1:49pm Tue 13 Nov 12

asd says...

I dont mind personally extending the pedestrian hrs. I dont even mind pedestrianising more of the city centre but, who will enforce it? I regulary see cars go down davygate in pedestrian hrs with no Disabled/ Permit. Also the person who said dont get killed by a cyle, you are a baffon. Have you ever been hit by a cyclist? I have, its not pleasent having your teeth knocked out and stitch in your head as cyclist hits you from behind, and you strike your face into concrete.
I dont mind personally extending the pedestrian hrs. I dont even mind pedestrianising more of the city centre but, who will enforce it? I regulary see cars go down davygate in pedestrian hrs with no Disabled/ Permit. Also the person who said dont get killed by a cyle, you are a baffon. Have you ever been hit by a cyclist? I have, its not pleasent having your teeth knocked out and stitch in your head as cyclist hits you from behind, and you strike your face into concrete. asd
  • Score: 1

2:33pm Tue 13 Nov 12

nickeggleton says...

York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement.

Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience.

This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles.

York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy.

For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future.

YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility.

I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way.

Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance.

I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery.

The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours.

There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30).

They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed.
'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening.

On the subject of bikes.

Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets.
York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles. York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy. For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future. YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility. I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way. Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance. I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery. The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours. There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30). They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed. 'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening. On the subject of bikes. Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets. nickeggleton
  • Score: 1

2:38pm Tue 13 Nov 12

sm1971 says...

I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong!
I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong! sm1971
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

eeoodares...."Does this really worry you? grow up!", That's the point I'm making, I have grown up!!
eeoodares...."Does this really worry you? grow up!", That's the point I'm making, I have grown up!! Jazzper
  • Score: 1

2:47pm Tue 13 Nov 12

hifive says...

Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours....

As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them!
Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours.... As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them! hifive
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Tue 13 Nov 12

asd says...

hifive wrote:
Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours.... As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them!
Agree with first point disagree with second point as you do not seem bothered by cyclist who ride through pedestian zones like Coney street, great for handback thiefts by the way. I both cycle and was taught when kid using cycle test at primary school. Nobody takes notice of regulations whether its car, cyclist or who-ever becasue its never seems to enforced or policed, just look at Coppergate for that one.
[quote][p][bold]hifive[/bold] wrote: Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours.... As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them![/p][/quote]Agree with first point disagree with second point as you do not seem bothered by cyclist who ride through pedestian zones like Coney street, great for handback thiefts by the way. I both cycle and was taught when kid using cycle test at primary school. Nobody takes notice of regulations whether its car, cyclist or who-ever becasue its never seems to enforced or policed, just look at Coppergate for that one. asd
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Tue 13 Nov 12

ReginaldBiscuit says...

Jazzper wrote:
In reply to Reg. biscuit....I totally agree with preventing motor vehicles from the centre of York,this should have done long ago, except for a reasonable delivery period. That is a very silly statement for you to make regarding " being killed by a bike ". You can be very badly hurt if you are knocked over by one, especially if you are elderly. Maybe you should try it and see!
Yes and if a Fridge or piano falls on your head, you will probably have a headache but the likelihood of that as the probability that I will be mown down in a drive-by push-rodding is pretty slim.

We do live in an 'it-might-happen' culture of neurosis hence the large and often wasteful sums and decisions spent on Health & Safety. Mortality does not play a very large part in people's thinking in modern day life hence hence the hormone driven young Knockwurst of a man who races his car with a large noisy exhaust round streets. Fear of death or anybody else's death = 0. The same mindset cannot be said of the pushrod community who by large are mostly respectful of road-laws - they have no choice against cars. Yes, some are culpable of no lights and simply ignoring traffic lights. We've all seen it.

By the way, why discriminate against other groups. It isn't only pensioners that 'live in fear' of 'rampaging push-rodders'. In future, I shall keep my eyes peeled for them and ignore the bus that approaches at speed.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: In reply to Reg. biscuit....I totally agree with preventing motor vehicles from the centre of York,this should have done long ago, except for a reasonable delivery period. That is a very silly statement for you to make regarding " being killed by a bike ". You can be very badly hurt if you are knocked over by one, especially if you are elderly. Maybe you should try it and see![/p][/quote]Yes and if a Fridge or piano falls on your head, you will probably have a headache but the likelihood of that as the probability that I will be mown down in a drive-by push-rodding is pretty slim. We do live in an 'it-might-happen' culture of neurosis hence the large and often wasteful sums and decisions spent on Health & Safety. Mortality does not play a very large part in people's thinking in modern day life hence hence the hormone driven young Knockwurst of a man who races his car with a large noisy exhaust round streets. Fear of death or anybody else's death = 0. The same mindset cannot be said of the pushrod community who by large are mostly respectful of road-laws - they have no choice against cars. Yes, some are culpable of no lights and simply ignoring traffic lights. We've all seen it. By the way, why discriminate against other groups. It isn't only pensioners that 'live in fear' of 'rampaging push-rodders'. In future, I shall keep my eyes peeled for them and ignore the bus that approaches at speed. ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: -1

3:54pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

Very amusing 'Reg'...your post realy does 'Take the Biscuit' !
Very amusing 'Reg'...your post realy does 'Take the Biscuit' ! Jazzper
  • Score: 0

4:12pm Tue 13 Nov 12

JoeR says...

sm1971 wrote:
I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong!
So, let me get this straight. You cycle up behind pedestrians in Coney Street at 5pm, and ring your bell at them expecting them to just jump out of the way.
You're part of the problem. It's this kind of behaviour that turns people against cycling in the city centre.
[quote][p][bold]sm1971[/bold] wrote: I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong![/p][/quote]So, let me get this straight. You cycle up behind pedestrians in Coney Street at 5pm, and ring your bell at them expecting them to just jump out of the way. You're part of the problem. It's this kind of behaviour that turns people against cycling in the city centre. JoeR
  • Score: 1

4:25pm Tue 13 Nov 12

hifive says...

asd wrote:
hifive wrote: Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours.... As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them!
Agree with first point disagree with second point as you do not seem bothered by cyclist who ride through pedestian zones like Coney street, great for handback thiefts by the way. I both cycle and was taught when kid using cycle test at primary school. Nobody takes notice of regulations whether its car, cyclist or who-ever becasue its never seems to enforced or policed, just look at Coppergate for that one.
I am concerned by cyclists disobeying the law as it gives them all (including myself) a bad name. However, someone earlier pointed out that they weave about in a dangerous manner and this is not always the fault of the cyclist - sometimes they have no choice as the narrow streets are so packed with large cars and vans that they're doing the best they can in a shoddy situation. As long as they're on the road they should pose no risk to pedestrians! I get that there's ignorant cyclists around but if I had a quid for every time I had to swerve to avoid a dosy pedestrian who has stepped out into the cycle lane I was using I'd be able to swap my bike for a car!

Anyway, I digress - pedestrianise the city centre!!!
[quote][p][bold]asd[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hifive[/bold] wrote: Agree with Reg Biscuit - the whole city centre should be pedestrianised other than a short delivery slot. It's a medieval city for goodness sake! It's not designed for huge amounts of traffic! Even Middlesbrough has managed to cope with pedestrianising the town centre and their need is lesser than ours.... As for those whinging about bikes (for a change), maybe if streets like Goodramgate weren't packed with queues of hummers trying to drop one child per vehicle off at the Minster school bikes wouldn't have to weave so precariously! There's no room for them![/p][/quote]Agree with first point disagree with second point as you do not seem bothered by cyclist who ride through pedestian zones like Coney street, great for handback thiefts by the way. I both cycle and was taught when kid using cycle test at primary school. Nobody takes notice of regulations whether its car, cyclist or who-ever becasue its never seems to enforced or policed, just look at Coppergate for that one.[/p][/quote]I am concerned by cyclists disobeying the law as it gives them all (including myself) a bad name. However, someone earlier pointed out that they weave about in a dangerous manner and this is not always the fault of the cyclist - sometimes they have no choice as the narrow streets are so packed with large cars and vans that they're doing the best they can in a shoddy situation. As long as they're on the road they should pose no risk to pedestrians! I get that there's ignorant cyclists around but if I had a quid for every time I had to swerve to avoid a dosy pedestrian who has stepped out into the cycle lane I was using I'd be able to swap my bike for a car! Anyway, I digress - pedestrianise the city centre!!! hifive
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Tue 13 Nov 12

R'Marcus says...

akuma wrote:
To be honest the longer restrictions wont really mean anything as most people just ignore the ones that are already there anyway.

Until someone actually enforces the rules that are in place, this will be nothing more than a sign changing exercise.
I agree.
Cyclists, especially, ignore the rules and speed down Davygate willy nilly, as the police ignore them.
Utter chaos.
[quote][p][bold]akuma[/bold] wrote: To be honest the longer restrictions wont really mean anything as most people just ignore the ones that are already there anyway. Until someone actually enforces the rules that are in place, this will be nothing more than a sign changing exercise.[/p][/quote]I agree. Cyclists, especially, ignore the rules and speed down Davygate willy nilly, as the police ignore them. Utter chaos. R'Marcus
  • Score: 0

4:49pm Tue 13 Nov 12

R'Marcus says...

Jazzper wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
Hear! Hear!
Cy6cling nazis are a menace in York streets.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway![/p][/quote]Hear! Hear! Cy6cling nazis are a menace in York streets. R'Marcus
  • Score: 1

4:51pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Robot Servant says...

Most visitors who walk around York probably don't realise that the city is pedestrianised.

You spend most of your time in the city-centre looking over your shoulder for cars.

Surely if other cities can do it properly, a historic tourist one like York can.
Most visitors who walk around York probably don't realise that the city is pedestrianised. You spend most of your time in the city-centre looking over your shoulder for cars. Surely if other cities can do it properly, a historic tourist one like York can. Robot Servant
  • Score: 0

5:03pm Tue 13 Nov 12

DEKKA says...

I always dismount and push my bike through the centre of York. I might as well be invisible as no one takes any notice of me. That is why I have to weave around, to avoid blind pedestrians!
I always dismount and push my bike through the centre of York. I might as well be invisible as no one takes any notice of me. That is why I have to weave around, to avoid blind pedestrians! DEKKA
  • Score: 1

5:27pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Caecilius says...

Predictably, this story is thrown open for comment but the almost daily news items about damage/delays/injuri
es/fatalities involving someone behind the wheel of a vehicle aren't.

Absolutely - make the centre a pedestrian zone between nine and five, and enforce it. As hifive says, these are narrow, medieval streets. They're packed with people on foot, and there's simply no place for vehicles. Or for bikes: I certainly wouldn't try to cycle along Davygate or Coney Street after 4 p.m., even though it's currently legal.
Predictably, this story is thrown open for comment but the almost daily news items about damage/delays/injuri es/fatalities involving someone behind the wheel of a vehicle aren't. Absolutely - make the centre a pedestrian zone between nine and five, and enforce it. As hifive says, these are narrow, medieval streets. They're packed with people on foot, and there's simply no place for vehicles. Or for bikes: I certainly wouldn't try to cycle along Davygate or Coney Street after 4 p.m., even though it's currently legal. Caecilius
  • Score: 1

5:57pm Tue 13 Nov 12

sm1971 says...

JoeR wrote:
sm1971 wrote:
I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong!
So, let me get this straight. You cycle up behind pedestrians in Coney Street at 5pm, and ring your bell at them expecting them to just jump out of the way.
You're part of the problem. It's this kind of behaviour that turns people against cycling in the city centre.
No, I don't. I ride like any sensible cyclist and when I see a pedestrain coming up soon, I ring my bell with plenty of time for them to walk out of the way without being made to jump.
Don't tar us all with the same brush.
[quote][p][bold]JoeR[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sm1971[/bold] wrote: I wish every pedestrian knew that Coney Street was only pedestrianised until 4pm as I (try to) cycle down it at 5pm each day only to be verbally abused on a regular basis for 'cycling down a pedestrian street'. I wear high-viz clothes, ring my bell to warn pedestrians and have lights on when needed, but many refuse to move as they feel I am in the wrong![/p][/quote]So, let me get this straight. You cycle up behind pedestrians in Coney Street at 5pm, and ring your bell at them expecting them to just jump out of the way. You're part of the problem. It's this kind of behaviour that turns people against cycling in the city centre.[/p][/quote]No, I don't. I ride like any sensible cyclist and when I see a pedestrain coming up soon, I ring my bell with plenty of time for them to walk out of the way without being made to jump. Don't tar us all with the same brush. sm1971
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Tue 13 Nov 12

muckybutt says...

10.30am - 5.00pm ohhh great !

What a stupid idea ! I for one will certainly be affected by this, I am a retail maintenance engineer and work in one of the shops on High Ousegate, I am in and out all the time picking very large heavy boxes up - tools etc.

Looks like I shall be doing less work in there then if I cant get back down there before 5 to put stuff back in my van.
10.30am - 5.00pm ohhh great ! What a stupid idea ! I for one will certainly be affected by this, I am a retail maintenance engineer and work in one of the shops on High Ousegate, I am in and out all the time picking very large heavy boxes up - tools etc. Looks like I shall be doing less work in there then if I cant get back down there before 5 to put stuff back in my van. muckybutt
  • Score: 0

6:11pm Tue 13 Nov 12

yorkshirelad says...

The problem we have in York is that modernisation of our mix of footstreets/cycling facilities/vehicle control is falling far far behind not just the continent but many other UK cities too.

So we end up stuck...vehicles are sort of/partially/just about apologetically controlled but we still have hostile attitudes to walking and cycling.

We need to unapologetically go the whole hog and have vehicles controlled much more. We have a great cycling tradition here and this needs to be encouraged along with massive pedestrian/cycle zones.

The problem is that the incremental improvements are just too slow for anyone to see the benefit. Look at the ridiculous responses to a tiny extension of the footstreet hours.

Stop pussyfooting around and restrict motorised vehicles much more. A start could be made by closing Ouse bridge off to all motorisede traffic once and for all.
The problem we have in York is that modernisation of our mix of footstreets/cycling facilities/vehicle control is falling far far behind not just the continent but many other UK cities too. So we end up stuck...vehicles are sort of/partially/just about apologetically controlled but we still have hostile attitudes to walking and cycling. We need to unapologetically go the whole hog and have vehicles controlled much more. We have a great cycling tradition here and this needs to be encouraged along with massive pedestrian/cycle zones. The problem is that the incremental improvements are just too slow for anyone to see the benefit. Look at the ridiculous responses to a tiny extension of the footstreet hours. Stop pussyfooting around and restrict motorised vehicles much more. A start could be made by closing Ouse bridge off to all motorisede traffic once and for all. yorkshirelad
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Tue 13 Nov 12

bob the builder says...

.... if only all shopping was out of town then the city centre could be a historic theme park with foot traffic only!
.... if only all shopping was out of town then the city centre could be a historic theme park with foot traffic only! bob the builder
  • Score: 0

7:03pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

yorkshirelad....Do you take your bike to bed with you?
yorkshirelad....Do you take your bike to bed with you? Jazzper
  • Score: 1

8:17pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Von_Dutch says...

Jazzper, grow up...

Yorkshirelad talks a lot of sense. Our Cllrs need to bite the bullet & do something bold. (It's pathetic that such a tiny extension to the hours gathers this many comments!)
Jazzper, grow up... Yorkshirelad talks a lot of sense. Our Cllrs need to bite the bullet & do something bold. (It's pathetic that such a tiny extension to the hours gathers this many comments!) Von_Dutch
  • Score: -1

8:18pm Tue 13 Nov 12

angryofyork says...

Easy, pedestrians on footpaths (two to choose from, one each side of the road) Bicycles on the road.
Easy, pedestrians on footpaths (two to choose from, one each side of the road) Bicycles on the road. angryofyork
  • Score: -1

8:21pm Tue 13 Nov 12

greggy83 says...

I'm all for sensible enforcement of the existing rules, but unfortunately so many drivers seem to be able to get away with driving in the restricted areas.

I know my solution won't be popular, but wouldn't ANPR cameras at each entrance of the restricted areas at the very least fine those drivers that do disobey the rules? The same goes for each side of Coppergate.

I'm awaiting the backlash!!!
I'm all for sensible enforcement of the existing rules, but unfortunately so many drivers seem to be able to get away with driving in the restricted areas. I know my solution won't be popular, but wouldn't ANPR cameras at each entrance of the restricted areas at the very least fine those drivers that do disobey the rules? The same goes for each side of Coppergate. I'm awaiting the backlash!!! greggy83
  • Score: 0

8:41pm Tue 13 Nov 12

akaroa says...

The whole foot street system is an utter farce. Rules are ignored, drivers use the so called pedestrian access regardless. Pedestrians are abused by drivers both abled and disabled. After the end of pedestrianisation, foot paths/roads are blocked by illegally parked non delivery vehicles, whose owners are to idle to walk from a designated parking area. The whole of the city centre is a complete disgrace, a total mess.
The whole foot street system is an utter farce. Rules are ignored, drivers use the so called pedestrian access regardless. Pedestrians are abused by drivers both abled and disabled. After the end of pedestrianisation, foot paths/roads are blocked by illegally parked non delivery vehicles, whose owners are to idle to walk from a designated parking area. The whole of the city centre is a complete disgrace, a total mess. akaroa
  • Score: 0

7:44am Wed 14 Nov 12

mrs daisey says...

As a local trader in Daveygate, i would like to know where my questionaire regarding these extended hours is,as i haven't yet recieved mine!!!!.
As a local trader in Daveygate, i would like to know where my questionaire regarding these extended hours is,as i haven't yet recieved mine!!!!. mrs daisey
  • Score: 0

8:08am Wed 14 Nov 12

MilkandTwo says...

ReginaldBiscuit wrote:
Jazzper wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
When was the last time a cyclist killed or seriously injured a pedestrian in York? Then work out the last time a road-vehicle was responsible for the death of a cyclist in York.

The era of mass car usage in its current dimensions is no longer feasible. Cars/trucks are becoming more expensive to run and increasingly clutter up the roads and create problems rather than solving them. Add to that petrol which is becoming more expensive and internationally, a more sought after resource. Things come. Things go. That's life. Everyone will probably have some sort of gas or electrically powered vehicle in the next 20 years anyway.

My own personal view is that everything inside the city walls should be pedestrianised anyway less for bus, taxi and residents who will have that beautifully exclusive right of way to their properties.
A cyclist with faulty brake kiled a woman in York in 2003: http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/archive/2003/
01/23/York+Archive/7
914510.Brakes_on_dea
th_crash_cycle_fault
y/

I think one of the last cyclists badly injured was hit by a bus in the Council's confusing bus lane on Fulford Road. Was in the Press again on Monday.

Good to see some cyclists acknowledge that there are bad apples among them. But, to be fair, the majority of cyclists are law abiding.

It's a question of management, of which CYC are not capable, and enforcement, for which the Police are not willing
[quote][p][bold]ReginaldBiscuit[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway![/p][/quote]When was the last time a cyclist killed or seriously injured a pedestrian in York? Then work out the last time a road-vehicle was responsible for the death of a cyclist in York. The era of mass car usage in its current dimensions is no longer feasible. Cars/trucks are becoming more expensive to run and increasingly clutter up the roads and create problems rather than solving them. Add to that petrol which is becoming more expensive and internationally, a more sought after resource. Things come. Things go. That's life. Everyone will probably have some sort of gas or electrically powered vehicle in the next 20 years anyway. My own personal view is that everything inside the city walls should be pedestrianised anyway less for bus, taxi and residents who will have that beautifully exclusive right of way to their properties.[/p][/quote]A cyclist with faulty brake kiled a woman in York in 2003: http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/archive/2003/ 01/23/York+Archive/7 914510.Brakes_on_dea th_crash_cycle_fault y/ I think one of the last cyclists badly injured was hit by a bus in the Council's confusing bus lane on Fulford Road. Was in the Press again on Monday. Good to see some cyclists acknowledge that there are bad apples among them. But, to be fair, the majority of cyclists are law abiding. It's a question of management, of which CYC are not capable, and enforcement, for which the Police are not willing MilkandTwo
  • Score: 0

8:34am Wed 14 Nov 12

Jazzper says...

Von Dutch....maybe I should remake my point. 'Footstreets', means just that, NO vehicles NO bikes. Now is that clear enough!
Von Dutch....maybe I should remake my point. 'Footstreets', means just that, NO vehicles NO bikes. Now is that clear enough! Jazzper
  • Score: 1

9:13am Wed 14 Nov 12

Mr Trellis says...

Is that it ? Hundreds of thousands of £s of tax payers money on consultants and all that happens is an extension of hours.
My expensive consultants tell me that there arent many pedestrians around at 5pm on a Novembers evening.
Pathetic and so typical of the wishy washy policies from Network Services
Is that it ? Hundreds of thousands of £s of tax payers money on consultants and all that happens is an extension of hours. My expensive consultants tell me that there arent many pedestrians around at 5pm on a Novembers evening. Pathetic and so typical of the wishy washy policies from Network Services Mr Trellis
  • Score: 0

2:21pm Wed 14 Nov 12

bloodaxe says...

Good news. Those who think that banning private vehicles from the centre is odd, undesirable or "snobbish" should look at cities where it is normal practice. I tend to agree with Akaroa. The centre is a mess and the answer is enforcing regulations. If council tax has to rise by a couple of pounds a year then so be it.
Good news. Those who think that banning private vehicles from the centre is odd, undesirable or "snobbish" should look at cities where it is normal practice. I tend to agree with Akaroa. The centre is a mess and the answer is enforcing regulations. If council tax has to rise by a couple of pounds a year then so be it. bloodaxe
  • Score: 0

4:24am Thu 15 Nov 12

Magicman! says...

I wouldn't mind extended pedestrian hours if (a) it was policed better, and (b) cycles were allowed through on the condition that those who were cycling in a careless/dangerous manner were reprimanded. York is the only city I know of where the pedestrianised city centre doesn't allow cycles through - and yet York is the self-proclaimed 'cycling city', try and make sense of that one!
Certain streets like Davygate could allow cycles through if the roadway was redesigned with tactile paving and a clearly defined cycle lane down the middle. I like it when Davygate is open to traffic (outside of the restrictions) because when I come from Monk Bar the traffic light timings are such that when I get a green at Monkgate I get round to Duncombe place just to see the light go red, and if Davygate is open I can simply divert down there and up Lendal to join traffic there and save waiting needlessly.


Better signage is required along the streets in question anyway, such that after the pedestrian hours have ended pedestrians are made aware they are then walking on a road - as I get fed up with people giving me filthy looks as though I'm doing something wrong going down Coney Street at 4.05pm on a weekday.
I wouldn't mind extended pedestrian hours if (a) it was policed better, and (b) cycles were allowed through on the condition that those who were cycling in a careless/dangerous manner were reprimanded. York is the only city I know of where the pedestrianised city centre doesn't allow cycles through - and yet York is the self-proclaimed 'cycling city', try and make sense of that one! Certain streets like Davygate could allow cycles through if the roadway was redesigned with tactile paving and a clearly defined cycle lane down the middle. I like it when Davygate is open to traffic (outside of the restrictions) because when I come from Monk Bar the traffic light timings are such that when I get a green at Monkgate I get round to Duncombe place just to see the light go red, and if Davygate is open I can simply divert down there and up Lendal to join traffic there and save waiting needlessly. Better signage is required along the streets in question anyway, such that after the pedestrian hours have ended pedestrians are made aware they are then walking on a road - as I get fed up with people giving me filthy looks as though I'm doing something wrong going down Coney Street at 4.05pm on a weekday. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

8:13am Thu 15 Nov 12

AnotherPointofView says...

To change footstreet hours to 10.00-17.00 is a joke. How do the Council expect deliveries to be made.

Some shops don't open until 10.00 and are closed by 17.00. That leaves a mad scramble of half an hour for deliveries.
To change footstreet hours to 10.00-17.00 is a joke. How do the Council expect deliveries to be made. Some shops don't open until 10.00 and are closed by 17.00. That leaves a mad scramble of half an hour for deliveries. AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 0

9:01am Thu 15 Nov 12

peter123456 says...

nickeggleton wrote:
York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement.

Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience.

This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles.

York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy.

For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future.

YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility.

I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way.

Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance.

I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery.

The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours.

There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30).

They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed.
'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening.

On the subject of bikes.

Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets.
Were you quote. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. I run a delivery business in York and you obviously know nothing about the delivery network or else you would not have made this comment. Our deliveries are made from 4pm at the moment by changing the times to 5pm makes a whole load of difference. Driver wages, extending working day, delivery costs will go up. Ect Ect Ect. Knock on effect is you as a customer in York will pay more for what you buy. All the council in York are doing is closing York city centre down altogether and pushing shops to the outskirts of York. Great for all day deliveries.
[quote][p][bold]nickeggleton[/bold] wrote: York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles. York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy. For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future. YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility. I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way. Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance. I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery. The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours. There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30). They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed. 'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening. On the subject of bikes. Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets.[/p][/quote]Were you quote. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. I run a delivery business in York and you obviously know nothing about the delivery network or else you would not have made this comment. Our deliveries are made from 4pm at the moment by changing the times to 5pm makes a whole load of difference. Driver wages, extending working day, delivery costs will go up. Ect Ect Ect. Knock on effect is you as a customer in York will pay more for what you buy. All the council in York are doing is closing York city centre down altogether and pushing shops to the outskirts of York. Great for all day deliveries. peter123456
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Thu 15 Nov 12

nickeggleton says...

peter123456 wrote:
nickeggleton wrote:
York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement.

Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience.

This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles.

York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy.

For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future.

YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility.

I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way.

Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance.

I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery.

The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours.

There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30).

They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed.
'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening.

On the subject of bikes.

Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets.
Were you quote. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. I run a delivery business in York and you obviously know nothing about the delivery network or else you would not have made this comment. Our deliveries are made from 4pm at the moment by changing the times to 5pm makes a whole load of difference. Driver wages, extending working day, delivery costs will go up. Ect Ect Ect. Knock on effect is you as a customer in York will pay more for what you buy. All the council in York are doing is closing York city centre down altogether and pushing shops to the outskirts of York. Great for all day deliveries.
Sorry Peter. You are right. I was quoting from the consensus of 'retailers' point of view. I sympathise and agree your business will be affected differently and higher costs will lead to higher prices.

The view and compromise expressed and negotiated by YRF was much better than the starting point of closing the streets to traffic from 9 till 6pm that originally presented by CYC.
[quote][p][bold]peter123456[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nickeggleton[/bold] wrote: York Retail Forum were consulted and agreed a consistent time throughout the week would be an improvement. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. This potential disadvantage may be made up by increased revenues in 'effective' extended trading time (over time) and lead to being more sustainable for business as people learn they do not have evacuate the city centre at 4pm because it is over-run by delivery vehicles. York Retail Forum is made up of (and open to any &) many independent / national businesses (small or large). It meets once a quarter to discuss the retail environment, report on trading performance, share ideas and opportunities, liaise with City of York Council and endeavours to influence policy. For example YRF has been the key organisation involved in persuading CYC to consider changes to the way parking may be managed in future. YRF has expressed concerns regarding enforcement of accessibility. I personally think 'traffic' like water, will always find a way. Closing the opening to Spurriergate, except between 7.30 and 10.30 is not practical - unless Coppergate is opened at 5pm to allow traffic from the south to circulate into the Parliament St / High Ousegate entrance. I also think there is little advantage in closing the Davygate entrance to the city centre unless bollards are also put up at the last remaining entrance at the top of Goodramgate. If that were done, York city centre would be closed to all traffic. There would still be plenty of places for Blue / Green badge holders on the periphery. The one glaring missed opportunity here is no mention on a restriction on size of vehicle during non-pedestrian hours. There are too many huge 'articulated' lorries delivering during normal hours (7.30 - 7.30). They should either be restricted to quieter times (overnight as in many other cities), or if not at all times if they are over a certain size. E.g. Only 'rigid' lorries under 7.5 tonnes should be allowed. 'We' restrict Coaches from the city centre and they are half the size of some of the monster trucks delivering and blocking the streets in the morning or early evening. On the subject of bikes. Police / PCSO and City Centre Officers need to request dismounting more vigilantly. Especially those riding the wrong way down one way streets.[/p][/quote]Were you quote. Extending foot street times by half an hour earlier and up to an hour later would not have too detrimental effect on delivery convenience. I run a delivery business in York and you obviously know nothing about the delivery network or else you would not have made this comment. Our deliveries are made from 4pm at the moment by changing the times to 5pm makes a whole load of difference. Driver wages, extending working day, delivery costs will go up. Ect Ect Ect. Knock on effect is you as a customer in York will pay more for what you buy. All the council in York are doing is closing York city centre down altogether and pushing shops to the outskirts of York. Great for all day deliveries.[/p][/quote]Sorry Peter. You are right. I was quoting from the consensus of 'retailers' point of view. I sympathise and agree your business will be affected differently and higher costs will lead to higher prices. The view and compromise expressed and negotiated by YRF was much better than the starting point of closing the streets to traffic from 9 till 6pm that originally presented by CYC. nickeggleton
  • Score: 0

4:01pm Thu 15 Nov 12

big smiffy says...

the streets of york are a nightmare i agree with having the closed street areas but extending the times??

I work for a parcel company and worked within the centre of york delivering and collecting for a while .

Our job is hard enough but extending the hours not allowed in the centre is going to make the job even harder due to parking and traffic volume.

I agree with the saftey of padestrians but the council is going to cause issues with parcel companies and local business.

Parking and loading areas need to be looked so we can carry out our duties as what will happen is various vans and trucks will park were they shouldnt be and cause further problems on the city centre road network
the streets of york are a nightmare i agree with having the closed street areas but extending the times?? I work for a parcel company and worked within the centre of york delivering and collecting for a while . Our job is hard enough but extending the hours not allowed in the centre is going to make the job even harder due to parking and traffic volume. I agree with the saftey of padestrians but the council is going to cause issues with parcel companies and local business. Parking and loading areas need to be looked so we can carry out our duties as what will happen is various vans and trucks will park were they shouldnt be and cause further problems on the city centre road network big smiffy
  • Score: 0

2:39pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Ellie92 says...

Jazzper wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
roskoboskovic wrote:
the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.
"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.
Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway!
I'm a cyclist in York and make sure I am careful when around pedestrians and dismount when it is necessary to do so. I do agree there are some cyclists who are slightly arrogant and may push their way through, but I think this comment is slightly in fair. Bicycles aren't dangerous if they are rode sensibly, which I think most of York's cyclists do. Car's are much more dangerous and taxis, from personal experience, don't seem to respect the fact that it is mainly pedestrianized. I do not think the majority of York's cyclists are 'idiots on cycles', so please don't generalise us to fit in with your personal grievance towards one or two inconsiderate people.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]roskoboskovic[/bold] wrote: the cycling nazis led by merritt and d agorne seem to rule the roost in york regardless of the opinions of the majority.for a so called democracy,the green led minority seem to get a lot their own way.[/p][/quote]"Closed to vehicles" also means closed to bicycles, unless they are being pushed along.[/p][/quote]Totally agree...it's those idiots on cycles weaving in and out of the pedestrians that worries me! Someone is going to be badly injured if this activity is not stopped. I seem to remember signs placed at the entrance to the footstreets " CYCISTS DISMOUNT ".....has somebody stolen them?, mind you, they were just ignored anyway![/p][/quote]I'm a cyclist in York and make sure I am careful when around pedestrians and dismount when it is necessary to do so. I do agree there are some cyclists who are slightly arrogant and may push their way through, but I think this comment is slightly in fair. Bicycles aren't dangerous if they are rode sensibly, which I think most of York's cyclists do. Car's are much more dangerous and taxis, from personal experience, don't seem to respect the fact that it is mainly pedestrianized. I do not think the majority of York's cyclists are 'idiots on cycles', so please don't generalise us to fit in with your personal grievance towards one or two inconsiderate people. Ellie92
  • Score: -1

1:06am Tue 20 Nov 12

akaroa says...

Shops do not necessarily need to be open in order to facilitate a delivery, just a responsible person/s in attendance on the premises. There are many businesses that take deliveries outside opening hours, pubs being an example Stateing that extending pedestrianisation would make deliveries really difficult is utter nonsense It would deter the illegal parking of idle drivers vehicles
Shops do not necessarily need to be open in order to facilitate a delivery, just a responsible person/s in attendance on the premises. There are many businesses that take deliveries outside opening hours, pubs being an example Stateing that extending pedestrianisation would make deliveries really difficult is utter nonsense It would deter the illegal parking of idle drivers vehicles akaroa
  • Score: -1

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