Call to give Richard III York burial (From York Press)

Middleham Castle. Once home to King Richard IIl the ' Windsor of the North'
should be the last resting place, far better than York.

If the gentleman asked to be buried in York Minster then that wish should be honoured.

From reports in the local Leicester paper, many see this as a tourist chance for the city.

capt spaulding wrote:
If the gentleman asked to be buried in York Minster then that wish should be honoured.

I'm sure most of the ordinary soldiers, from both sides, who fought on Bosworth field would have wished to be buried in their home parish churchyards, but in the end didn't get their choice....

If it is in York it will just end up a tacky and touristy thing, even in the Minster. Not really much respect in that......

give king richard his last wish its the least anyone can do for him would it mean a state funeral.? After all its not a body but just some bones.if its wrote down somewhere that york is where he wants to rest let him have his wish.

anistasia wrote:
give king richard his last wish its the least anyone can do for him would it mean a state funeral.? After all its not a body but just some bones.if its wrote down somewhere that york is where he wants to rest let him have his wish.

Hear Hear.

oslo wrote:

capt spaulding wrote:
If the gentleman asked to be buried in York Minster then that wish should be honoured.

I'm sure most of the ordinary soldiers, from both sides, who fought on Bosworth field would have wished to be buried in their home parish churchyards, but in the end didn't get their choice....

If it is in York it will just end up a tacky and touristy thing, even in the Minster. Not really much respect in that......

Theres nothing tacky and touristy about the Minster. It is a magnificent building and well befitting the final resting place of a King of England

oslo wrote:

capt spaulding wrote:
If the gentleman asked to be buried in York Minster then that wish should be honoured.

I'm sure most of the ordinary soldiers, from both sides, who fought on Bosworth field would have wished to be buried in their home parish churchyards, but in the end didn't get their choice....

If it is in York it will just end up a tacky and touristy thing, even in the Minster. Not really much respect in that......

But he wasn't an ordinary solider he was the King !

Nowadays we do bring ordinary soldiers home to be buried in their home parishes

we didn't leave Diana in France she was brought home and buried on her families estate

The difference between these bones and any rank and file victim of Bosworth is that these might prove to be an indentifiable individual, whose wishes are a matter of record.

Therefore IF they are Richard's, they should be buried here in York.

IF they are any other identifiable person whose wishes aren't known, they should be returned to his home parish for burial, wherever that may be.

If they turn out not to be identifiable, by all means bury them in Leicester, though I suspect Leicester Cathedral won't be offered as a site for the grave if the bones turn out to be those of a lowly archer.

Out of interest, what authority is being quoted for Richard's wish to be interred in York? Is this recorded in a will or elsewhere?

How do we know what he wanted?

I believe he announced his intention to be buried at York, but I can't quoute you the source.

I understand also that a couple of years before his death he began the process of having a new chantry chapel built at the Minster, which might be taken to support the idea that this was where he wanted to be laid to rest - not very likely he'd pay for prayers to be said in York, if he expected his body to be laid to rest in Westminster.

Too many "believes", "understands" and "mights" in that answer, so I hope someone with a greater knowledge of the subject can support (or demolish) my suppositions with some hard facts.

Fat Harry wrote:
I believe he announced his intention to be buried at York, but I can't quoute you the source. I understand also that a couple of years before his death he began the process of having a new chantry chapel built at the Minster, which might be taken to support the idea that this was where he wanted to be laid to rest - not very likely he'd pay for prayers to be said in York, if he expected his body to be laid to rest in Westminster. Too many "believes", "understands" and "mights" in that answer, so I hope someone with a greater knowledge of the subject can support (or demolish) my suppositions with some hard facts.

That's a great answer Fat Harry. I was just wondering if it was based on fact or supposition. Thank you for clearing that up.

I also wonder then, if there is any precedent based on other historical scenarios? Have we come across this kind of issue before- a deposed king being repatriated? Should be some from around that same period, surely?

whitehorse wrote:

Fat Harry wrote:
I believe he announced his intention to be buried at York, but I can't quoute you the source. I understand also that a couple of years before his death he began the process of having a new chantry chapel built at the Minster, which might be taken to support the idea that this was where he wanted to be laid to rest - not very likely he'd pay for prayers to be said in York, if he expected his body to be laid to rest in Westminster. Too many "believes", "understands" and "mights" in that answer, so I hope someone with a greater knowledge of the subject can support (or demolish) my suppositions with some hard facts.

That's a great answer Fat Harry. I was just wondering if it was based on fact or supposition. Thank you for clearing that up.

I also wonder then, if there is any precedent based on other historical scenarios? Have we come across this kind of issue before- a deposed king being repatriated? Should be some from around that same period, surely?

Well, there's Richard II - first buried in King's Langley, Hertfordshire, after being deposed and (presumably) murdered by Henry IV but moved to Westminster Abbey by Henry V. And Henry VI, who was buried in Chertsey Abbey after being deposed by Edward IV and dying, according to the official account, of "pure melancholy and displeasure", although more recent examination of his skeleton revealed that he'd had his head bashed in, which sounds like a more plausible explanation..... He was reinterred in Westminster Abbey - by Richard III, as it happens.

What has it got to do with the justice minister?
Bury him at Sheriff Hutton with his son.

Caecilius wrote:

whitehorse wrote:

Fat Harry wrote:
I believe he announced his intention to be buried at York, but I can't quoute you the source. I understand also that a couple of years before his death he began the process of having a new chantry chapel built at the Minster, which might be taken to support the idea that this was where he wanted to be laid to rest - not very likely he'd pay for prayers to be said in York, if he expected his body to be laid to rest in Westminster. Too many "believes", "understands" and "mights" in that answer, so I hope someone with a greater knowledge of the subject can support (or demolish) my suppositions with some hard facts.

That's a great answer Fat Harry. I was just wondering if it was based on fact or supposition. Thank you for clearing that up.

I also wonder then, if there is any precedent based on other historical scenarios? Have we come across this kind of issue before- a deposed king being repatriated? Should be some from around that same period, surely?

Well, there's Richard II - first buried in King's Langley, Hertfordshire, after being deposed and (presumably) murdered by Henry IV but moved to Westminster Abbey by Henry V. And Henry VI, who was buried in Chertsey Abbey after being deposed by Edward IV and dying, according to the official account, of "pure melancholy and displeasure", although more recent examination of his skeleton revealed that he'd had his head bashed in, which sounds like a more plausible explanation..... He was reinterred in Westminster Abbey - by Richard III, as it happens.

I have suffered melancholy and displeasure when I had a head injury, ie had me head bashed in.
My sympathies are with Henry V1.

Holy requium; What a todo!!

I didn't know he was dead, was it illness or what?

baldiebiker wrote:
I didn't know he was dead, was it illness or what?

It came on suddenly, first a terrible pain in the back and then the headaches began. Later a terrible blackness befell him. I think that was tarmac.

I think the evidence suggests that if Richard iii had a choice between York and Leicester he would choose York. Here are my reasons.
+He would recognize York Minster - Leicester cathedral is Victorian.
+As a King, he would expect a magnificent resting place - Leicester cathedral is very small.
+He seems to have been keen to foster a "special relationship" with York, so it must have been important to him.
+He visited York to see the mystery plays and have his son invested as Prince of Wales - happy memories compared with those in Leicester - he was there when Buckingham rebelled and to fight Henry Tudor.
+ He personally escorted his father's bones from Pontefract where he was buried after his death in battle,to the family tomb at Fotheringay, which might suggest that he would rather not be where he fell in battle.
+The perfect epitaph for his grave is in the York City records when they recorded how sorry they were to hear of his death.
+ He took a personal interest in the development of the Minster which may suggest he saw it as his burial place.
+Leicester seem to want him as a money spinning tourist attraction, but have made little of their links with him up to now. York doesn't need another tourist attraction so he might get a bit more respect there.

So there you are, its obvious it should be York.

capt spaulding wrote:

oslo wrote:

capt spaulding wrote:
If the gentleman asked to be buried in York Minster then that wish should be honoured.

I'm sure most of the ordinary soldiers, from both sides, who fought on Bosworth field would have wished to be buried in their home parish churchyards, but in the end didn't get their choice....

If it is in York it will just end up a tacky and touristy thing, even in the Minster. Not really much respect in that......

Theres nothing tacky and touristy about the Minster. It is a magnificent building and well befitting the final resting place of a King of England

You can't blame the guy for his confusion. He's probably never been in the Minster. If he has, then he ought to be pitied for failing to understand what the Minster is all about.

ange11 wrote:
I think the evidence suggests that if Richard iii had a choice between York and Leicester he would choose York. Here are my reasons.
+He would recognize York Minster - Leicester cathedral is Victorian.
+As a King, he would expect a magnificent resting place - Leicester cathedral is very small.
+He seems to have been keen to foster a "special relationship" with York, so it must have been important to him.
+He visited York to see the mystery plays and have his son invested as Prince of Wales - happy memories compared with those in Leicester - he was there when Buckingham rebelled and to fight Henry Tudor.
+ He personally escorted his father's bones from Pontefract where he was buried after his death in battle,to the family tomb at Fotheringay, which might suggest that he would rather not be where he fell in battle.
+The perfect epitaph for his grave is in the York City records when they recorded how sorry they were to hear of his death.
+ He took a personal interest in the development of the Minster which may suggest he saw it as his burial place.
+Leicester seem to want him as a money spinning tourist attraction, but have made little of their links with him up to now. York doesn't need another tourist attraction so he might get a bit more respect there.

So there you are, its obvious it should be York.

You get my vote, Ange11.
Your reasoning is first-class.
You are right, of course.
The remains of Richard III must be interred into York Minster.

This sounds like a good excuse to waste millions of pounds and sell lots of little plastic Union Jack flags, made in China of course.

R'Marcus wrote:

ange11 wrote:
I think the evidence suggests that if Richard iii had a choice between York and Leicester he would choose York. Here are my reasons.
+He would recognize York Minster - Leicester cathedral is Victorian.
+As a King, he would expect a magnificent resting place - Leicester cathedral is very small.
+He seems to have been keen to foster a "special relationship" with York, so it must have been important to him.
+He visited York to see the mystery plays and have his son invested as Prince of Wales - happy memories compared with those in Leicester - he was there when Buckingham rebelled and to fight Henry Tudor.
+ He personally escorted his father's bones from Pontefract where he was buried after his death in battle,to the family tomb at Fotheringay, which might suggest that he would rather not be where he fell in battle.
+The perfect epitaph for his grave is in the York City records when they recorded how sorry they were to hear of his death.
+ He took a personal interest in the development of the Minster which may suggest he saw it as his burial place.
+Leicester seem to want him as a money spinning tourist attraction, but have made little of their links with him up to now. York doesn't need another tourist attraction so he might get a bit more respect there.

So there you are, its obvious it should be York.

You get my vote, Ange11.
Your reasoning is first-class.
You are right, of course.
The remains of Richard III must be interred into York Minster.

Thanks R'Marcus for your comments. Hope someone who can influence the decision reads them and agrees