Christmas lights row hits York's Stonegate

10:00am Wednesday 24th October 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Richard Catton, richard.catton@thepress.co.uk

Illuminations in Stonegate in 2010 Illuminations in Stonegate in 2010

ONE of York’s most famous shopping streets looks set to be left without Christmas lights this year after a funding row between traders.

Adam Sinclair, owner of Mulberry Hall and chairman of Stonegate Traders, said some businesses in the street had failed to contribute to the cost, despite agreeing to, and he said he could no longer keep footing the bill.

In a letter sent to fellow traders in Stonegate, Mr Sinclair wrote: “Last year, the position worsened. Until now, Mulberry Hall has had to underwrite and meet the deficit, which has now become unsustainable.

“This is a great shame because our lights have been lauded nationally and because Stonegate is one of the country’s leading and historic Christmas shopping streets.”

Mr Sinclair said the annual cost of maintenance, hanging, storage and repairs for the lights ran into thousands of pounds.

The Press understands businesses in Stonegate are asked to contribute £200, with larger “double frontage” stores asked to contribute £400.

Gillian Cruddas, chief executive of Visit York, said: “We’re disappointed to hear that there is some uncertainty over the Christmas lights for one of York’s most beautiful, historic streets.

“It is vitally important, if York is to keep ahead of the competition that we continue to make the city inviting and special at Christmas time. We hope that a solution can be found.”

Last year, Stonegate was named as one of the most sought-after streets outside London for shop space, and in 2010 it earned the title of second best street in the UK for fashion shopping in the Google Street View Awards.

Sue Tindall, manager of gift shop Peter Rabbit and Friends, said: “We are hugely disappointed it’s not going ahead. We would like it to continue because it’s a huge part of St Nicholas Fayre.”

Richard Pool, a director at Barbara Cattle jewellers and silversmith, said: “I hope this puts some pressure on other traders to contribute.”

Terry Brett, owner of Pyramid Gallery, said people come to York to see the lights, but said he believed it was time to switch to LED illuminations to save money. He also called on City of York Council to contribute, saying “we all pay enough rates”.

Paul Barrett, the council’s city centre manager, said York’s Retailers’ Forum, which included the authority, agreed in 2008 that the council would contribute to decorations for seven jointly selected streets, since extended to 20. But he said: “Certain trade or retail associations chose to organise and pay for their own decorations, and that included the Stonegate traders.

“While the council’s decorations commitments are already under way for 2012 – including securing some quality contributions from Blackpool Council – we will offer any advice or support we can to Stonegate as the street’s importance to the city’s retail offer is valued.”

Comments(43)

cityforthepremier says...
10:10am Wed 24 Oct 12

I thought these City Centre traders were the only ones in the city who care about York via the "Campaign For York"? Oh look, it appears they couldn't care less. Surprise surprise!

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Even AndyD says...
10:17am Wed 24 Oct 12

Is there anything in this city Adam Sinclair isn't chairperson of? Man seems to wear more hats than the Duchess of Cambridge.

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rogue84 says...
10:28am Wed 24 Oct 12

£200 each?? is that all? surely speculating to accumulate means that most businesses down Stonegate will make that back in 1 day during the Xmas period?

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steve_york says...
10:29am Wed 24 Oct 12

the shop owners don't own the street, so why should they even have to pay? The council should be paying for this if they want to bring trade to York surely? Do all the market traders and other streets pay for the lighting around there part as an honest question as I wouldnt know, but doesnt seem correct for shops to pay for street lighting at xmas time, in fact why do we even have a York council, they dont seem to pay for much anymore apart from there own needs?

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Even AndyD says...
10:38am Wed 24 Oct 12

Steve, if the Council suddenly declared they were going to deck our streets with wall to wall Xmas lights, this forum would implode quicker than you can say; 'what a waste of money, no wonder there are no bins.'

Damned if you do, etc.

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goodfellow says...
10:57am Wed 24 Oct 12

just come to Selby for Christmas lights and Christmas shopping,

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CHISSY1 says...
11:07am Wed 24 Oct 12

goodfellow wrote:
just come to Selby for Christmas lights and Christmas shopping,
"Not sure about the shopping but the Christmas lights put a lot of towns to shame".

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Daley Mayall says...
11:16am Wed 24 Oct 12

If you want to see some Xmas lights, go to Leeds.....

.....and a number of people will do. York's have always been pathetic.

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oslo says...
11:30am Wed 24 Oct 12

This is how Knaresborough pays for its lights.
http://www.knaresbor
oughtowncouncil.gov.
uk/Core/Knaresboroug
h-TC/Pages/Light_Up_
Knaresborough_Appeal
_1.aspx

It works like a proper community thing, money from local business, individuals, as well as the Town Council (but NOT from the Borough Council to which we pay our Council Tax!).

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Fat Harry says...
11:35am Wed 24 Oct 12

You have to laugh at these members of the "business community" demanding that the council fork out for lights.

I'm pretty sure the huge majority of them will vote for blue or yellow Tories and spend a lot of time banging the drum for cuts to all council services -except the ones that might boost their takings.

So domestic bin collections, care of the elderly, and education can all go to the (preferably privatised) wall, as long as what's left is reserved for shoring up their profits.

I've got no objection to the city centre being made to look pretty in a sickly chocolate box sort of way, but I don't want to be made to pay for it. For once I agree with Mr Sinclair - if the Stonegate traders want the street to look Christmassy, they can stick their short arms in their deep pockets for once.

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Stressed Out says...
11:47am Wed 24 Oct 12

Did I not read somewhere that as part of our 'partnership' with Blackpool Council, they were lending/giving us some of their old lights to put up at Xmas.

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meme says...
11:56am Wed 24 Oct 12

Stonegate is a crucial attaction to York and by implication ithe wealth of its population
I suggest anyopne feeling generous should send anything they can spare to A Sinclair to help pay for these and he should name and shame those traders in the street who refuse to contribute as they are a disgrace to york and the community

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yorkonafork says...
12:12pm Wed 24 Oct 12

cityforthepremier wrote:
I thought these City Centre traders were the only ones in the city who care about York via the "Campaign For York"? Oh look, it appears they couldn't care less. Surprise surprise!
Absolutely. Not only that, as many said at the time, they obviously don't have much business sense (hence why they may be struggling rather than OOT shops opening) if they don't think £200 is worth it for all the attraction to the street. What a joke.

Fair play to AS in this case for funding it last year despite his actions during various other issues.

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atorycouncil2014 says...
12:12pm Wed 24 Oct 12

steve_york wrote:
the shop owners don't own the street, so why should they even have to pay? The council should be paying for this if they want to bring trade to York surely? Do all the market traders and other streets pay for the lighting around there part as an honest question as I wouldnt know, but doesnt seem correct for shops to pay for street lighting at xmas time, in fact why do we even have a York council, they dont seem to pay for much anymore apart from there own needs?
the council should pay? sorry the council does not have any money. It does administer funds belonging to the residents of this city. i for one dont want mine wasted on shiny lights 60 days a year. i would rather it was spent on repairing roads or filling my salt bin thank you

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whitehorse says...
12:30pm Wed 24 Oct 12

As an avid reader *note sarcasm* I'm starting to think that I'm living in bloody Groundhog day.

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Homer-the-motorhomer says...
12:31pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Reduce costs by only placing the lights where the businesses contributed. That's the best way to name and shame those who don't have the community spirit. We, the shopping public can then vote with our feet, by favouring the lit-up shops. - I do appreciate there are practicalities of lights being linked, but emphasis could still be placed on the participating businesses, and a bare minimum of lights placed in front of the stingy ones.

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brahma says...
1:01pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Homer-the-motorhomer wrote:
Reduce costs by only placing the lights where the businesses contributed. That's the best way to name and shame those who don't have the community spirit. We, the shopping public can then vote with our feet, by favouring the lit-up shops. - I do appreciate there are practicalities of lights being linked, but emphasis could still be placed on the participating businesses, and a bare minimum of lights placed in front of the stingy ones.
OK, there's an idea. Oh wait, no. The lights run across the street so if the shop opposite a contributor is a non-contributor the lights have nowhere to go so both miss out.

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York1900 says...
1:15pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Stonegate traders have gone it on there own for years but like every thing there are some who just don't want to pay there share but take the profit from such things and want the coucil to pick up the cost
I think there should be a small levey on businesses in York paid over the year just for Christmas lights this levey should be about £5 a week this money should be put in to special account which the council would add % to the fund to put Christmas lights up in York

.

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Tel1969 says...
1:26pm Wed 24 Oct 12

What surprises me is that why CYC does not budget every year for Christmas lighting, like, one assumes, every other tourist council in the country? Blackpool, for instance, spends £1,600,000 on its famous illuminations every year and the council provides 80% of it. For a city that prides itself on being a tourist destination, CYC should obviously take the lead and sort this out.

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lezyork1966 says...
1:57pm Wed 24 Oct 12

maybe this is the way forward, but to get a united front and lights that match, we tell the council not to bother, a not-for-profit committee of oap volunteers is set up, who accept tenders/quotes from private companies who want to do the lights, all shops can through #250 quid in, dpending on size, and get a sticker for the window thus shaming non paying shops next door etc.. this way we may get better lights all round all over the city

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daisy50 says...
2:44pm Wed 24 Oct 12

The Christmas lights in York are a huge disappointment every year other cities have beautiful ones and every year for such a historic beautiful city York has rubbish lights. It could encourage the tourist to come and buy in York if it had decent lights look at Newcastle Leeds lights. York always has the worst lights or what lights? where is their festive spirit the ones they do have are just a token gesture anyway.

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bob the builder says...
3:10pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Why should traders pay for street decor - e.g levy a tourist tax on hotel rooms or long stay car parking fees. If the Council wants to attract them, then extract money from them for the good of the city and spend it on the city.

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roskoboskovic says...
3:28pm Wed 24 Oct 12

All year long ycc say how important tourism is to the city and in a lot of ways they put the tourists before the residents but when it comes to investing a bit of cash in the lights they don t want to know.i don t believe that the traders should have to pay but i wish sinclair would shut up for a change.

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steve_york says...
3:45pm Wed 24 Oct 12

atorycouncil2014 wrote:
steve_york wrote:
the shop owners don't own the street, so why should they even have to pay? The council should be paying for this if they want to bring trade to York surely? Do all the market traders and other streets pay for the lighting around there part as an honest question as I wouldnt know, but doesnt seem correct for shops to pay for street lighting at xmas time, in fact why do we even have a York council, they dont seem to pay for much anymore apart from there own needs?
the council should pay? sorry the council does not have any money. It does administer funds belonging to the residents of this city. i for one dont want mine wasted on shiny lights 60 days a year. i would rather it was spent on repairing roads or filling my salt bin thank you
Yes, I see what your saying, BUT, I'm a home owner/tax payer etc. and I don't really see much of what our council do for us, bit by bit you can see itemised services listed on our council taxes as it goes up year on year which was originally within the initial council tax, and it DOES matter if we want to bring trade to the city as it effects us all. If York didnt have its history, walls, minster etc. we'd basically be like Goole, bloody horrible and none of us would live here would we?? But yes jjust voicing my opinion but again, damned if ye do, damned if you don't...

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R'Marcus says...
3:46pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Mr. Sinclair-Name and shame those traders who do not want to support York, and let the council tax them which will hurt their combined pockets.

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pedalling paul says...
4:34pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Perhaps Adam should invite an army of cyclists to stand around and flash their lights........

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keepitshut says...
4:39pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Start to worry when the traders in The Shambles and Goodramgate do the same!
Just for "snobbery value" has anybody wondered why the Council put lights along the buildings both sides in St Helens Sq but not on Bettys?

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ouseswimmer says...
5:03pm Wed 24 Oct 12

The high cost might be due to the two men who spend an entire week putting them up when it could be done in two days. I've watched them take so long over one string I was going to video it and put it on youtube! called men not working!

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MouseHouse says...
5:04pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Good to see the capitalists fighting and bickering between themselves. Less time for them to plan ways of fleecing the rest of us

As soon as they want something from the people, represented by the council, they bleat on and on. When they're asked to contribute it's short arms and long pockets.

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nowthen says...
5:40pm Wed 24 Oct 12

pedalling paul wrote:
Perhaps Adam should invite an army of cyclists to stand around and flash their lights........
York's got enough problems without being subjected to a load of pedalling flashers.

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AnotherPointofView says...
6:20pm Wed 24 Oct 12

nowthen wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Perhaps Adam should invite an army of cyclists to stand around and flash their lights........
York's got enough problems without being subjected to a load of pedalling flashers.
Actually, I don't normally agree with PP but that one did make me laugh.

Thanks PP.

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lowbeam says...
6:39pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Paul..like you I am a cyclist,car owner too,but Paul..sometimes you are really, really annoying...

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bloodaxe says...
6:55pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Daley Mayall wrote:
If you want to see some Xmas lights, go to Leeds.....

.....and a number of people will do. York's have always been pathetic.
Calais for lights.

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bloodaxe says...
6:58pm Wed 24 Oct 12

What is St. Nicholas Fayre ? Do they mean Fair ? Fayre is a pseudo-archaic fantasy word and means nothing.

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Silver says...
8:08pm Wed 24 Oct 12

lowbeam wrote:
Paul..like you I am a cyclist,car owner too,but Paul..sometimes you are really, really annoying...
Have to agree with you lowbeam if there's anyone setting back people's perceptions of cyclists in York it's PP.
Shame part of the business rates CYC charge can't be budgeted towards the lights for xmas. After all the rates for businesses in the city centre are pretty high

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nearlyman says...
8:09pm Wed 24 Oct 12

Even AndyD wrote:
Is there anything in this city Adam Sinclair isn't chairperson of? Man seems to wear more hats than the Duchess of Cambridge.
Do you have a problem with this ? I would think it shows he is bothered about his city and gets involved (at his own expense, rather than that of the rate payer like all the councillors and others who have their noses in the trough). You cannot knock him for this, it looks as though he has been subsidising the street for some time. Good Luck to him I say.

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Even AndyD says...
8:47am Thu 25 Oct 12

I think it can throw up conflicts of interest, nearlyman, yes. If you campaign against MX with your York Civic Trust (protecting City heritage) hat on, whilst also being chairman for York Chamber of Trade and Campaign for York, whilst having outlets in the centre and out at Designer Outlet, then maybe some would argue that poses problems.

I think he is also Chairperson of Merchant Adventurers, York Business Partnership and York Business Pride.

Now you can see that as either civic-minded altruism, or fingers in the pies of power. It is up to you and whilst I found the alleged u-turns he made over Coppergate II 'interesting' - I guess we can all change our opinions.

But on this particular story, I'd say he has a point. So, not a problem, more a question. :-)

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brahma says...
9:29am Thu 25 Oct 12

R'Marcus wrote:
Mr. Sinclair-Name and shame those traders who do not want to support York, and let the council tax them which will hurt their combined pockets.
An equally effective solution, and one that would be less contentious, is to "honour" those who contributed last year and those doing so this by publishing their names. We can then join up the dots and draw our own conclusions.

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meme says...
9:32am Thu 25 Oct 12

AS cares about York and his business
Sometimes the two targets will clash
However i know he cares about stonegate both for business and personal reasons and i find it amazing that some traders cannot put a small ammount of money into the pot
I repeat Stonegate is a major york attraction and benefits all of us. perhaps if AS put a colection bucket outside his and other shops generous locals will put a bit each in to ensure we get decent lights and shame on those who dont.
I will be in to see AS and make a donation and hope others will do so to even if its pound only... it all helps

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RisingDamp says...
11:04am Thu 25 Oct 12

As a former employee of a nationwide retailer based on Stonegate, I found last year that our individual store was put under some pressure by Stonegate Traders to fork out the £200 contribution to the lights. That's all fine with individual, one-of-a-kind shops, but does he - or anybody else - not realise that at times, company head offices ignore any little request like this?

£200, to the company, was nothing. But we received the pressure, and couldn't convince our head office to do anything about it, thereby making us one of these "non-contributors". We couldn't pay the money out of the individual shop - that required head office clearance and to move without their permission was a sackable offence, and I just can't help but wonder whether this was also the case with so many others - let's face it, there are a lot of nationwide chains along Stonegate now, at least 4 of which are double fronted. If they don't pay up, like my employer didn't, then that is immediately £1600 down on the lighting fund.

It's such a shame that this year the prospect of no Christmas lights is very real, but I can't say I'm not surprised. The funding needs to come from elsewhere, not just the shops on the street. I'm all for a tourist tax - €2 pppn doesn't deter people in Central Europe, so why not give it a try?

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tobefair says...
11:12am Thu 25 Oct 12

Let's face it. Stonegate isn't a street where the run of the mill York people shop. It is part of 'Museum York' and as such the businesses derive most of their income from tourists. It is time to decide who is responsible for attracting these tourists. Is it the businesses that benefit from them or the Councl/tax payers of York?

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Even AndyD says...
1:09pm Thu 25 Oct 12

tobefair wrote:
Let's face it. Stonegate isn't a street where the run of the mill York people shop. It is part of 'Museum York' and as such the businesses derive most of their income from tourists. It is time to decide who is responsible for attracting these tourists. Is it the businesses that benefit from them or the Councl/tax payers of York?
Exactly. CoYC will say public taxes pay for certain tourist attractions and facilities, which in turn benefit Stonegate businesses. Traders on the other hand will say they already pay a premium in very high rent.
Tough one - but I think trying to get all the stores to agree to one policy was always going to be difficult because doubtless their management structures, rules and more importantly, profits, will differ widely. Shame because the street looks superb decked out imho.

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baldiebiker says...
12:24am Fri 26 Oct 12

goodfellow wrote:
just come to Selby for Christmas lights and Christmas shopping,
there's no shops left in Selby worth going to?

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