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Grieving family receive council rent demand
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| Adrian Doyle and Alison Scott who are angry the city council is charging them rent on the home of their dead father, Joe Doyle |
HARDWORKING pensioner Joe Doyle died without owing anybody a penny - now "cold and callous" red tape has demanded his grieving family cough up his rent for the weeks AFTER he passed away.
The 77-year-old's devastated children are "angry and disgusted" after being told they must pay £144 to City of York Council to cover the time they have spent removing his possessions from his York home.
Their father, who passed away on April 17 from a sudden abdominal aneurism, had painstakingly ensured his affairs were in order and his son and daughter planned to donate money he left behind to the intensive care unit at York Hospital, where he was treated during the last days of his life.
But when Adrian Doyle and Alison Scott went to the council to arrange the return of the keys to the Foxwood council property Mr Doyle lived in for 31 years, they were stunned to learn they must pay the outstanding rent for the period between his death and the handover - despite nobody living there during that time.
They also discovered rent and council tax benefits their father was receiving during his life could not be taken into account when the outstanding rent was calculated.
And within two days of Adrian and Alison giving the council their details as his next of kin, a letter was sent to his former home from the authority's taxation department asking for the information they had already provided. "We're absolutely disgusted - it's cold, callous and heartbreaking," said mother-of-three Alison, 38.
"I can't describe how devastated we are by our dad's death and now this has added insult to injury. He was a stickler for paying what he owed on time and didn't have any debts when he died because he didn't want us to worry about anything - that's the sort of proud, honest man he was.
"We think it's outrageous for the council to demand this money like this. Nobody has even been living in our dad's house since he died - our mother, Josie, died six years ago - and we did the right thing by telling them what had happened and that we needed time to basically take his whole life away from his house.
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| Joe Doyle |
"They could have given us a deadline to hand it back, but instead it's as if they're asking him to pay rent after he died. The money is there and we'll pay it next week once we're ready - we wouldn't give the council the satisfaction of us not doing that - but it could have gone to the incredible hospital staff who looked after him and us.
"It's the principle which seems so unkind and it's made his death even harder to come to terms with. Losing our father is upsetting enough without this."
Since Mr Doyle, who spent much of his working life at York Glassworks, died, his family have been inundated with letters paying tribute to him.
"They all say what a kind, caring, wonderful man he was - we can't put into words what we thought of him," said Alison.
"He would have hated to think he had left us with anything to sort out. We can pay this and we will, but there must be many other people in the same situation who can't afford it. It's a completely uncaring attitude."
Council's view
A CITY of York Council spokeswoman said: "We would like to express our sincere condolences to the family of Mr Doyle at this difficult time.
"We would always handle any family bereavement sympathetically and apologise for any anxiety caused.
"Rent for council property is accrued until the keys for the property are handed in. At this point, the council would recover any outstanding amount from the deceased's estate. We would be happy to discuss any concerns with the family directly if they wish to contact us."
11:14am Friday 2nd May 2008
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CommentPosted by: tezza, york on 11:36am Fri 2 May 08
Pure greed and no common sense. That is our council all over!!
Being charged for sorting out your fathers belongings while greiving at the same time.
DESPICABLE!!!
Pure greed and no common sense. That is our council all over!!
Being charged for sorting out your fathers belongings while greiving at the same time.
DESPICABLE!!!
Posted by: Cruddass is a muppett on 11:42am Fri 2 May 08
Typical of our council. Cash first, people second.
Typical of our council. Cash first, people second.
Posted by: Barney Bear, York on 12:08pm Fri 2 May 08
Whilst I have every sympathy with this family in their sad loss the officers at the council are only carrying out the wishes of those people that voted in the "council". It makes no difference which political party is in office. The Cllrs make the rules to reflect what we "their constituents" want. The council can sometimes seem hard and callous but we "the people" [quote]quote[/quote] put them there and we made the rules!
Whilst I have every sympathy with this family in their sad loss the officers at the council are only carrying out the wishes of those people that voted in the "council". It makes no difference which political party is in office. The Cllrs make the rules to reflect what we "their constituents" want. The council can sometimes seem hard and callous but we "the people"
quote
put them there and we made the rules!
Posted by: Redr, york on 12:13pm Fri 2 May 08
We had to clear our dads flat within a week of his death to avoid the same situation. Its hard enough to deal with the grief without such pressure from the council. As it was by the time of his funeral any physical connection of his life had been wiped out. It's uncaring and heartbreaking for those involved. Shame on YCC, deepest sympathy to Mr Doyles family.
We had to clear our dads flat within a week of his death to avoid the same situation. Its hard enough to deal with the grief without such pressure from the council. As it was by the time of his funeral any physical connection of his life had been wiped out. It's uncaring and heartbreaking for those involved. Shame on YCC, deepest sympathy to Mr Doyles family.
Posted by: andy2007, york on 12:13pm Fri 2 May 08
This great council can afford to right off millions to those who wont pay council tax or their council house rent as its too costly to chase up the debtor, yet easy targets such as this family are hounded.
This great council can afford to right off millions to those who wont pay council tax or their council house rent as its too costly to chase up the debtor, yet easy targets such as this family are hounded.
Posted by: Fat Harry on 12:25pm Fri 2 May 08
I don't see what all the fuss is about. These have been the rules for years and, mostly, people have just get on with it.
My mother was also a hard-working and honest pensioner. When she died, we cleared her flat and paid the outstanding rent, leaving it quickly available for the next person in need of somewhere to live.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. These have been the rules for years and, mostly, people have just get on with it.
My mother was also a hard-working and honest pensioner. When she died, we cleared her flat and paid the outstanding rent, leaving it quickly available for the next person in need of somewhere to live.
Posted by: Angry and Frustrated, York on 12:29pm Fri 2 May 08
I work with a woman whose mother in law died at the end of last week - the funeral was only yesterday. They were told that they had to have the house cleared by close of business on Tuesday to avoid paying a months rent - basically they had to clear her house before the poor woman was even cold!
Contrast this with Leeds City Council - my best friends mother died in Leeds last year - the council gave the family a MONTH to clear the property before they would start to charge rent.
Money grabbing CofYC - go for the easy target instead of chasing rent and council tax arrears!
I work with a woman whose mother in law died at the end of last week - the funeral was only yesterday. They were told that they had to have the house cleared by close of business on Tuesday to avoid paying a months rent - basically they had to clear her house before the poor woman was even cold!
Contrast this with Leeds City Council - my best friends mother died in Leeds last year - the council gave the family a MONTH to clear the property before they would start to charge rent.
Money grabbing CofYC - go for the easy target instead of chasing rent and council tax arrears!
Posted by: Katherine Mondavi, Nether Poppleton on 12:30pm Fri 2 May 08
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Posted by: Katherine Mondavi, Nether Poppleton on 12:31pm Fri 2 May 08
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Posted by: Katherine Mondavi, Nether Poppleton on 12:32pm Fri 2 May 08
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Until the property is cleared the Council cannot rent out the property.
Posted by: Brian, york on 12:48pm Fri 2 May 08
All the councillors who read these comments should start to do the decent thing and push make changes to the system here in york,a few weeks at least to give the relatives time to sort things out.
All the councillors who read these comments should start to do the decent thing and push make changes to the system here in york,a few weeks at least to give the relatives time to sort things out.
Posted by: Mike C, york on 12:56pm Fri 2 May 08
Do councils have any discretion in such cases? If so, they should exercise it; if not, then there's no point lambasting them. Since such stories appear from time to time, perhaps the Press could do a bit of real journalism for a change and explain the complexities to us.
Do councils have any discretion in such cases? If so, they should exercise it; if not, then there's no point lambasting them. Since such stories appear from time to time, perhaps the Press could do a bit of real journalism for a change and explain the complexities to us.
Posted by: marc on 1:05pm Fri 2 May 08
Typical council, have no compassion for anybody, next they'll be making it within 24hours of the death
Typical council, have no compassion for anybody, next they'll be making it within 24hours of the death
Posted by: Flash, York on 1:34pm Fri 2 May 08
How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters !
How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters !
Posted by: Peachy4, york on 1:57pm Fri 2 May 08
While i sympathise with the family why would they expect the council to pay benefits when the person in question who was claiming them is deceased??
While i sympathise with the family why would they expect the council to pay benefits when the person in question who was claiming them is deceased??
Posted by: GoodramgateTerrier, York on 2:22pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Flash[/bold] wrote:
How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters ! [/quote] So your advocating violence against an office worker who is following established policy, very sensible.
Yes it's a horrible situation and no it's not nice to have to contemplate such a thing but as Fat Harry pointed out earlier, those are the rules, whether you necessarily agree with them or not (which I don't but that's beside the point).
I'm agree with Brian's comments, lets hope the council take note and look to redress the situation. Or if you feel that strongly Flash then why not petition your local councillor rather than make daft verbal threats, do something postive rather than negative.
Flash wrote:
How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters !
So your advocating violence against an office worker who is following established policy, very sensible.
Yes it's a horrible situation and no it's not nice to have to contemplate such a thing but as Fat Harry pointed out earlier, those are the rules, whether you necessarily agree with them or not (which I don't but that's beside the point).
I'm agree with Brian's comments, lets hope the council take note and look to redress the situation. Or if you feel that strongly Flash then why not petition your local councillor rather than make daft verbal threats, do something postive rather than negative.
Posted by: asmith99, Selby on 2:34pm Fri 2 May 08
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. When someone dies, all they want is the money that the deceased worked all their lives so hard for. Not to mention the fact they don't give you 2 minutes to grieve before they're making demands - disgusting!
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. When someone dies, all they want is the money that the deceased worked all their lives so hard for. Not to mention the fact they don't give you 2 minutes to grieve before they're making demands - disgusting!
Posted by: Now then ****, York on 3:42pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]GoodramgateTerrier[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Flash[/bold] wrote: How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters ! [/quote] So your advocating violence against an office worker who is following established policy, very sensible. Yes it's a horrible situation and no it's not nice to have to contemplate such a thing but as Fat Harry pointed out earlier, those are the rules, whether you necessarily agree with them or not (which I don't but that's beside the point). I'm agree with Brian's comments, lets hope the council take note and look to redress the situation. Or if you feel that strongly Flash then why not petition your local councillor rather than make daft verbal threats, do something postive rather than negative.[/quote] for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
GoodramgateTerrier wrote:
Flash wrote: How callous,It sickens mw to the stomach how these people have been treated, I would love to get hold of the people responsible for issuing these letters !
So your advocating violence against an office worker who is following established policy, very sensible. Yes it's a horrible situation and no it's not nice to have to contemplate such a thing but as Fat Harry pointed out earlier, those are the rules, whether you necessarily agree with them or not (which I don't but that's beside the point). I'm agree with Brian's comments, lets hope the council take note and look to redress the situation. Or if you feel that strongly Flash then why not petition your local councillor rather than make daft verbal threats, do something postive rather than negative.
for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
Posted by: GoodramgateTerrier, York on 3:49pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote]for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!![/quote]
Yes thank's.
for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
Yes thank's.
Posted by: franky, york on 3:59pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote]for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!![/quote]
I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?
for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 5:29pm Fri 2 May 08
I expect to get jumped on for this but I agree with the council. It doesn't matter that the TENANT didn't live there; what matters is nobody else could because the house was full of his stuff.
The same situation would come up here. Death can get you out of a lease, but the landlord will charge for the time you spend removing a loved one's possessions. Also, property tax and insurance also must still be paid when the owner of a house dies.
I expect to get jumped on for this but I agree with the council. It doesn't matter that the TENANT didn't live there; what matters is nobody else could because the house was full of his stuff.
The same situation would come up here. Death can get you out of a lease, but the landlord will charge for the time you spend removing a loved one's possessions. Also, property tax and insurance also must still be paid when the owner of a house dies.
Posted by: the Butler, Cowichan Bay B.C Canada on 6:04pm Fri 2 May 08
To the council, people of York City are a number, that produces revenue, also they have rules laid down,Not by them, but by the public! If there is no latitude in these agreements for death, Of course you are not entitled to any relief.
Put a motion forward at the next civic meeting, to add an adenda or rider to that particular bylaw and have it changed...
To the council, people of York City are a number, that produces revenue, also they have rules laid down,Not by them, but by the public! If there is no latitude in these agreements for death, Of course you are not entitled to any relief.
Put a motion forward at the next civic meeting, to add an adenda or rider to that particular bylaw and have it changed...
Posted by: comment, Leeds on 6:27pm Fri 2 May 08
This is dispicable - ok I can understand that the council need to give some kind of deadline because in theory the family could take months to sort out the property, losing the council lots of money and denying a home to someone who needs it. However to do this within a fornight of the death is callous - it could easily take that long to sort out a house. Also shortly after the death surely the council should agree a time period with the relatives, not suddenly charge without warning then expect rent in arrears.
This is dispicable - ok I can understand that the council need to give some kind of deadline because in theory the family could take months to sort out the property, losing the council lots of money and denying a home to someone who needs it. However to do this within a fornight of the death is callous - it could easily take that long to sort out a house. Also shortly after the death surely the council should agree a time period with the relatives, not suddenly charge without warning then expect rent in arrears.
Posted by: Now then ****, York on 8:00pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]franky[/bold] wrote:
[quote]for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!![/quote] I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?[/quote] no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.
franky wrote:
for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?
no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.
Posted by: Now then ****, York on 8:01pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Now then ****[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]franky[/bold] wrote: [quote]for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!![/quote] I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?[/quote] no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.[/quote] nor do I find anyone who scrounges benefits of any orientation a joke either
Now then **** wrote:
franky wrote: for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?
no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.
nor do I find anyone who scrounges benefits of any orientation a joke either
Posted by: JENGAMAN, acomb on 11:01pm Fri 2 May 08
The Council have obviously lost their way when it comes to easing the grief this couple are already going through.Maybe they could use the sat navs in their bin wagons to find their way to easing this couples grief.Or maybe they are desperate to claw wasted money back even if it means stooping so low. From a very ANGRY reader
The Council have obviously lost their way when it comes to easing the grief this couple are already going through.Maybe they could use the sat navs in their bin wagons to find their way to easing this couples grief.Or maybe they are desperate to claw wasted money back even if it means stooping so low. From a very ANGRY reader
Posted by: JENGAMAN, acomb on 11:03pm Fri 2 May 08
The Council have obviously lost their way when it comes to easing the grief this couple are already going through.Maybe they could use the sat navs in their bin wagons to find their way to easing this couples grief.Or maybe they are desperate to claw wasted money back even if it means stooping so low. From a very ANGRY reader
The Council have obviously lost their way when it comes to easing the grief this couple are already going through.Maybe they could use the sat navs in their bin wagons to find their way to easing this couples grief.Or maybe they are desperate to claw wasted money back even if it means stooping so low. From a very ANGRY reader
Posted by: york1900, York on 1:52am Sat 3 May 08
It makes no difference all those who are owed money on death expect to collect the debt from the estate and
The day and time on which they die can also effect if there is any pension due or as to be paid back it's not just City of York council who look at these things to see if they have a claim against the estate
I had the same thing with my late mother
It makes no difference all those who are owed money on death expect to collect the debt from the estate and
The day and time on which they die can also effect if there is any pension due or as to be paid back it's not just City of York council who look at these things to see if they have a claim against the estate
I had the same thing with my late mother
Posted by: Bryter, YO62 on 8:22am Sat 3 May 08
Oh, for goodness sake, it's only £144. Just bloody well pay and have it over with. The fact that he was only paying £50 a week in rent should be reason enough to not start moaning.
Oh, for goodness sake, it's only £144. Just bloody well pay and have it over with. The fact that he was only paying £50 a week in rent should be reason enough to not start moaning.
Posted by: CHRIS YORK BORN&BRED, YORK on 10:09am Sat 3 May 08
Not so long ago I believe the council wrote off £200,000 in rent owed by fly by nights in York....
Bloodsucking york council.!!!!
Not so long ago I believe the council wrote off £200,000 in rent owed by fly by nights in York....
Bloodsucking york council.!!!!
Posted by: Scumspawn, york on 10:27am Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Now then ****[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]franky[/bold] wrote: [quote]for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!![/quote] I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?[/quote] no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.[/quote] We were 'migrants' in places like America and Australia in the past and look at how the locals paid for it there. You are the joke pal.
Now then **** wrote:
franky wrote: for goodness sake, have you got a sense of humour!!!!!
I take it your ill-informed comment about migrants must also have been a "joke" then?
no I don't find paying for migrants a joke.
We were 'migrants' in places like America and Australia in the past and look at how the locals paid for it there. You are the joke pal.
Posted by: Bryter, YO62 on 12:18pm Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]CHRIS YORK BORN&BRED[/bold] wrote:
Not so long ago I believe the council wrote off £200,000 in rent owed by fly by nights in York....
Bloodsucking york council.!!!![/quote] If they wrote off such a large amount of money owed, that hardly makes them blood-suckers, does it?
CHRIS YORK BORN&BRED wrote:
Not so long ago I believe the council wrote off £200,000 in rent owed by fly by nights in York....
Bloodsucking york council.!!!!
If they wrote off such a large amount of money owed, that hardly makes them blood-suckers, does it?
Posted by: Yorkshire Tyke, Aberdeenshire on 4:38pm Sat 3 May 08
The York council did the same to us several years ago.When my father in law died we travelled from Scotland to deal with both the funeral,any outstanding bills & clear the flat.We had just 1 week to do evrything before returning to Scotland.
We spoke to someone at the council explaining the situation & it was agreed we could stay in the said flat in order for us to clear it,we were informed that the rent had already been paid in advance & covered the week that we would be staying there.On the day of our depature we were leaving by an early morning train & a neighbour offered to return the keys to the council on the Monday as we had arranged,unfortunate
ly the said neighbour didn't return the keys until the Tuesday & as a result of the keys being handed in 1 day late the council wrote to us in demanding 1 weeks rent from the Monday that we had left.
Joan.
The York council did the same to us several years ago.When my father in law died we travelled from Scotland to deal with both the funeral,any outstanding bills & clear the flat.We had just 1 week to do evrything before returning to Scotland.
We spoke to someone at the council explaining the situation & it was agreed we could stay in the said flat in order for us to clear it,we were informed that the rent had already been paid in advance & covered the week that we would be staying there.On the day of our depature we were leaving by an early morning train & a neighbour offered to return the keys to the council on the Monday as we had arranged,unfortunate
ly the said neighbour didn't return the keys until the Tuesday & as a result of the keys being handed in 1 day late the council wrote to us in demanding 1 weeks rent from the Monday that we had left.
Joan.
Posted by: Bryter, YO62 on 5:03pm Sat 3 May 08
So how is that the Council's fault? The neighbour should have been more dependable in doing what was asked of him.
So how is that the Council's fault? The neighbour should have been more dependable in doing what was asked of him.
Posted by: Yorkshire Tyke, Aberdeenshire on 8:51pm Sat 3 May 08
The person we spoke to at the council offices also informed us that the tenant is supposed to give 1 months notice when they are vacating the flat!!!! even though we had informed the said person that the tenant dad died very suddenly.
The person we spoke to at the council offices also informed us that the tenant is supposed to give 1 months notice when they are vacating the flat!!!! even though we had informed the said person that the tenant dad died very suddenly.
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