Police rethink charging for community events

POLICE chiefs in North Yorkshire have vowed to continue supporting community events.

Chief Constable Grahame Maxwell has been working with North Yorkshire Police Authority to find a balance between supporting local community events and sticking to existing budgets, after the force caused controversy over its charging policy - with even charity events receiving only a 50 per cent discount.

Under the current policy, police charges will be levied on around 19 of the 850 events which are police by the force each year - of which they say just five are community events.

Now they plan to look again at the events where organisers or local councils have raised concerns.

Police will also be talking to local councils about how all agencies might work together better to support local event organisers.

Chief Constable Grahame Maxwell said: ""We have listened to the concerns people have and will take them on board in drawing up a clear force-wide policy. We hope this will assist event organisers and clear up any confusion.

"In the majority of cases we support smaller community events by providing a policing presence through our Safer Neighbourhoods Teams. These teams are at the heart of our communities. They patrol neighbourhoods and community events as a core part of their policing duties and respond to any incidents that may arise."

For more details see The Press tomorrow.

5:05pm 16/04/2008

Maybe the event will still be on.

Truth is, the North Yorkshire Police are one of the worst police forces in the country and refusing to assist with community events like this one is disgraceful.

Case proved, and there are stories like this most days. Today we have a story of the city centre awash with drug dealing beggars, and a police farce seemingly incapable of dealing with it.

Pathetic.

Bemused wrote:

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Truth is, the North Yorkshire Police are one of the worst police forces in the country and refusing to assist with community events like this one is disgraceful.

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Really?? Upon what FACTUAL basis do you base this? Before you answer, I must point out that the personal views of one bitter and twisted ex-cop from 15+ years ago don't count as fact. I would love to see you put the uniform back on and grab the keys to a panda - you wouldn't last two minutes! But at least it might smash your dated 'heartbeat' opinions of what is achievable amongst the demands of a MODERN police service. Then you might realise why things like parades and fairs are as far down the priority list as they could possibly be. If you think NYP is the worst police force, then you could always move back to the slums of West Yorkshire, because your thirty year one-man 'I know best' crusade and your beloved WYP have clearly made it a beautiful place to live..........

No worries. Originally, I just recounted what I'd heard on a 5-live program and which I had an interest in through athletics. You prodded me to look a bit deeper.

A deep debate has raged for 3,000 years concerning the essence of law. Philsophers have long debated if law is a science or not. In making law a science, knowledge of it is known only to a few. No problem with an '-ology' but not so when one is subject to it.
This problem was well known in the first Roman republic where the unwritten law was the preserve of the Priests who were the agents of the Noble classes, or 'Patricianers'. Eventually, after campaigning by the citizen or 'plebian' (PLEBs), it was agreed to record and simplify the law.
Despite his noble intentions, as an arch-academic, all he and is ilk have served to do is to return the understanding of law to the legal-priesthood and this is doubly insulting when he uses these powers to his own ends.
In respect of the machinations of the 'legal-priesthood', there is another word for it. It's called the 'gravy-train' and to me, that seems a big chunk of what the whole legal system is about, i.e. keeping the priesthood on the gravy-train. Hence the insults.

Thought-for-the-day!

No worries. Originally, I just recounted what I'd heard on a 5-live program and which I had an interest in through athletics. You prodded me to look a bit deeper.

A deep debate has raged for 3,000 years concerning the essence of law. Philsophers have long debated if law is a science or not. In making law a science, knowledge of it is known only to a few. No problem with an '-ology' but not so when one is subject to it.
This problem was well known in the first Roman republic where the unwritten law was the preserve of the Priests who were the agents of the Noble classes, or 'Patricianers'. Eventually, after campaigning by the citizen or 'plebian' (PLEBs), it was agreed to record and simplify the law.
Despite his noble intentions, as an arch-academic, all he and is ilk have served to do is to return the understanding of law to the legal-priesthood and this is doubly insulting when he uses these powers to his own ends.
In respect of the machinations of the 'legal-priesthood', there is another word for it. It's called the 'gravy-train' and to me, that seems a big chunk of what the whole legal system is about, i.e. keeping the priesthood on the gravy-train. Hence the insults.

Thought-for-the-day!

As when the Tour de France visited in 1994, the Town (Whitchurch)centre roads will be closed so that all can have a good view as the cyclist negotiate The Square's roundabout.

Well done Pete, a good exchange. I apologise for having attempted to shoot the messenger.

ok. if you won't take my word for it.
http://thewhitchurch
web.org/arch0706.htm


I didn't make the comparisons, but SOME police forces have. His aloofness gave notice that he would challenge the existing powers provided under the Temporary Road Closure Orders in the Town Police Clauses Act of 1847. This Road Traffic Regulation Act specifically dealt with Public Celebrations such as street parties, carnivals, parades and similar events.

Some council's/forces are still prepared to accept the old legislation but some, including Selby, obviously want the full hog.

Please don't confuse my attempts to explain what has happened with any idea that I agree with it. I have a long standing relationship with Athletics and have seen many long-standing events fall because of this idiom.

So...blame your mate of the black cap.

Forty two miles away from Portsmouth and a route from Dover to Brighton to Portsmouth goes nowhere near.

Even if it did, you can't compare a major event like the Tour de France with a piddling not more than an hour or so parade by Scouts, Guides, Cubs, Beavers and Brownies, which has apparently gone on for years.

I don't really think the legislation is appropriate for events like pancake races, and why one might one ask is 14 year old legislation suddenly being applied for the first time?

Truth is, the North Yorkshire Police are one of the worst police forces in the country and refusing to assist with community events like this one is disgraceful.

Took a bit of digging but - The specific regulation that came into force in 1994 was the Road Traffic Regulation (Special Events). It was ten nicknamed "The Tour de France" legislation and was proposed to allow major events to go through "without challenge".
This event had one section between Dover and Brighton and another between Brighton and Portsmouth. The 5-live program that described this issue stated that Lord Denning's home was in Surrey. he did in fact reside at his home called "The Lawn", Whitchurch, Hampshire, and which is close to Portsmouth and on the route of the 1994 Tour-de-France.

I rest my case.

Bemused wrote:
Part of the 1994 Tour De France was in the Portsmouth area, well away from Lord Denning's home. You insult the memory of one of our greatest judges. Powers to regulate traffic and close roads temporarily exist under the Highways and Road Traffic Acts. The police are withdrawing an important community service for the first time, they haven't done so since 1994 at all. Hence a pancake race in Ripon, formerly held for time immemorial had to be cancelled this year. Makes one wonder exactly what use the police are nowadays, it's not as if they deal with crime or anything like that. They seem afraid to leave the security of the police station.

The route was through Surrey, along the road of Lord Denning's residense. To use his influence and knowledge of the law and it's traditions for his own sake in this way demonstrates that even men of such calling are not impartial.
As stated, police can use the Victorian legislation for 'public celebrations' but it's validity is now in doubt through this challenge.

Nowadays, all laws are that convoluted, they make themselves almost unintelligible and unusable to the common man

if it was a gay pride march or insert (ethnic country) march it would be funded by taxpayers but because it is an historic english thing we can well and truly get stuffed

Part of the 1994 Tour De France was in the Portsmouth area, well away from Lord Denning's home. You insult the memory of one of our greatest judges.

Powers to regulate traffic and close roads temporarily exist under the Highways and Road Traffic Acts. The police are withdrawing an important community service for the first time, they haven't done so since 1994 at all. Hence a pancake race in Ripon, formerly held for time immemorial had to be cancelled this year.

Makes one wonder exactly what use the police are nowadays, it's not as if they deal with crime or anything like that. They seem afraid to leave the security of the police station.

All this trouble started because of the antics of the former 'master-of-the-rolls
', a certain 'Lord Denning' QC, back in 1994. The Tour-de-France was coming to the UK and roads needed to be closed. The old Toad's residense was affected and he gave notice that he would bring the issue before the courts.
Until 1994, police used victorian legislation for 'public celebrations', but Lord Dentures would contest that the law was been abused. So parliament hurriedly came up with new legislation which, unfortunately, picked up all the normal 'process-baggage' typical of modern day bureaucracy.
Some forces still use the powers of the old legislation. Some won't.

She said that for many years, the police had simply stopped the traffic to allow the parade to pass.

This was how these parades were always done, without any fuss or bother. I bet the Notting Hill Carnival organisers don't have any problems getting police assistance, and if it's £600 for an outside company to organise this minor event in Selby, think what the carnival would cost.

Likewise all the fuss bother with the Olympic torch last week.

The part which anoys me is if protesters march then police are provided but for parades such as this which are essentilly cultural or civic they are not and the organisers have to provide marshalls who have no rights to clear the way for the prosession. This is not a level playing field.

Bemused wrote:

"I blame the health and safety culture, bureaucracy and a lack of information. People assume you know everything, but we are all volunteers."

Agreed, but most of all the police for letting down the communities they are supposed to serve. Events like this are good for public relations, and an ideal opportunity to let the special constabulary do what they are there for - assisting the regular force at events such as this, NOT day to day policing.

What has the police role got to do with the cancellation? It clearly states in the article that it was the District Council that required 3 months notice and it seems that despite their best efforts to rush this through time simply ran out. It’s a shame for the young people involved but hopefully next year plans can be sorted out sooner.

"I blame the health and safety culture, bureaucracy and a lack of information. People assume you know everything, but we are all volunteers."

Agreed, but most of all the police for letting down the communities they are supposed to serve. Events like this are good for public relations, and an ideal opportunity to let the special constabulary do what they are there for - assisting the regular force at events such as this, NOT day to day policing.