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£21 million to ease York’s traffic-choked streets
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| City of York Council chief Steve Galloway celebrates the £21 million funding boost |
RELIEF could be in sight for thousands of long-suffering commuters as York looks set to secure £21 million for three new Park&Ride sites.
The Regional Transport Board is being advised to approve the Access York bid next week following a campaign by City of York Council, which was backed by The Press.
The congestion-busting boost for York's transport system would increase the number of Park&Ride spaces in the city from 3,750 to 5,700, taking hundreds of cars off the roads every hour.
The Askham Bar Park&Ride site would double to 1,250 spaces - it is currently used by 600,000 passengers a year and is normally full by 10am.
Another 750 spaces would also be created at a new site on the A59 near Poppleton while a 500-space site would open in Wigginton Road, near Clifton Moor, which would also serve York Hospital.
Damon Copperthwaite, the council's assistant director for city strategy and transport, said work would get under way immediately if the bid was approved, and the three sites should be operating by 2011.
As part of the work, a bigger roundabout would also be built on the outer ring road at the A59 and A1237 junction, while priority bus lanes would be created in Wigginton Road and Boroughbridge Road.
Council leader Steve Galloway, who will be attending next Friday's meeting, said it was "great news for our city".
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| Council leader Steve Galloway at Askham Bar Park&Ride site |
"I am delighted that Yorkshire Regional Assembly officers are recommending this huge investment in the city's transport infrastructure," he said.
"I am grateful to The Press and its readers for fully supporting the Access York bid. I am sure that those petitioning have influenced regional thinking and fortunately, on this occasion, it looks like there will be something to show for readers' efforts."
Coun Galloway added: "Potentially these new facilities will take hundreds of congestion-causing car trips off our roads each hour and will complete the circle of Park&Ride sites available to those visiting the city.
| Space invaders |
York has 3,750 spaces in its Park&Ride network. By 2011, there will be 5,700:
* Grimston Bar - 900
* Rawcliffe - 1,000
* Monks Cross - 750
* McArthur Glen Designer Outlet - 550
* Askham Bar - 1,250
* A59 - 750
* Wigginton Road - 500 |
"Park&Ride has been one of our biggest success stories in recent times with around four million passenger journeys being made each year.
"This additional capacity will allow the system to attract even more users reducing the number of vehicles in and around our city. If agreed, this will be the largest public transport project ever implemented in the city. Hopefully, within a couple of years you will see work starting."
Coun Andy D'Agorne, of the Green Party, also welcomed the news but questioned what the impact would be on other transport schemes for the city.
"It is certainly good news that there's support for public transport, but I wouldn't like to see other improvements to walking, cycling and highways in the city shelved as a result," he said.
| Access campaign |
The Press Access York campaign called on the Government to throw its weight behind York’s planned bid for cash to fund three new Park&Ride sites.
We urged readers to back our petition, appealing for Government support for the city’s proposed bid for £160 million that could be used to dual some of the congested outer ring road.
We also appealed for the Government to back a proposed Highways Agency bid for funding to upgrade the Hopgrove Roundabout. |
His Green Party colleague Coun
Dave Taylor said: "We approve of Park&Ride as part of the way in which we can make York more accessible to commuters and visitors without them bringing cars into the city. We are very much in favour of measures such as these to increase use of public transport."
Also up for agreement is an innovative Yorcard (smartcard) system allowing passengers to use a single card payment method for all bus, rail, tram and community transport journeys across Yorkshire and Humberside. This is expected to cost the Government £28 million.
Another scheme, which could benefit York commuters accessing Leeds, is a 500-place park- and-rail site which would replace the current Micklefield railway station
However, the future of the Hopgrove roundabout improvement hangs in the balance with it being grouped as "a third priority" scheme in the officer's assessment on what offers value for money. Currently it is not recommended for approval because of the region's limited transport budget.
Have your say
Is Park&Ride a good way of getting York out of a jam?
11:03am Friday 28th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: bobby dazzler, york on 11:08am Fri 28 Mar 08
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
Posted by: marc on 11:11am Fri 28 Mar 08
Please don't award the contract to first York as non Park and ride services will suffer more than what they already do. Let someone like Veolia or Top Line run it.
Please don't award the contract to first York as non Park and ride services will suffer more than what they already do. Let someone like Veolia or Top Line run it.
Posted by: Paul Hepworth, York on 11:12am Fri 28 Mar 08
Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 11:18am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote:
Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car. [/quote] No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
Paul Hepworth wrote:
Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
Posted by: what???, york on 11:21am Fri 28 Mar 08
Paul - must agree with Bobby Dazzler on this one.
I remember a couple of years ago when the bus drives were on strike and instead of the chaos you would expect with more people in cars, the traffic in york was very much less congested than being stuck behind buses in main roads letting off passengers and picking them up.
Also have you ever driven behind the bendy buses... on the majority of their routes they routinely take up 2 lanes of traffic as york roads are not wide enough for them to drive through and certainly not to get around corners.
Paul - must agree with Bobby Dazzler on this one.
I remember a couple of years ago when the bus drives were on strike and instead of the chaos you would expect with more people in cars, the traffic in york was very much less congested than being stuck behind buses in main roads letting off passengers and picking them up.
Also have you ever driven behind the bendy buses... on the majority of their routes they routinely take up 2 lanes of traffic as york roads are not wide enough for them to drive through and certainly not to get around corners.
Posted by: No News Is Good News, York on 11:21am Fri 28 Mar 08
The money would be better spent adding an extra lane on the A1237. people would use it more than going through town if it moved freely like the A64 does.
The money would be better spent adding an extra lane on the A1237. people would use it more than going through town if it moved freely like the A64 does.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car.
Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car.
Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]No News Is Good News[/bold] wrote:
The money would be better spent adding an extra lane on the A1237. people would use it more than going through town if it moved freely like the A64 does.[/quote] Agreed. However the money would be better spent on a 500-1 horse its that bad a idea.
No News Is Good News wrote:
The money would be better spent adding an extra lane on the A1237. people would use it more than going through town if it moved freely like the A64 does.
Agreed. However the money would be better spent on a 500-1 horse its that bad a idea.
Posted by: Galloway Out on 11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
Why give more money to a bus company that cant cope as it is. Surely the current services need bringing up to a half decent standard before throwing more money at the useless park and rides
Why give more money to a bus company that cant cope as it is. Surely the current services need bringing up to a half decent standard before throwing more money at the useless park and rides
Posted by: yorkie, york on 11:26am Fri 28 Mar 08
still doesn't help residents (living within outer ring road) how about looking at better shuttles from outlying vilages to park & ride sites and city centre car parks for disabled and residents only?
still doesn't help residents (living within outer ring road) how about looking at better shuttles from outlying vilages to park & ride sites and city centre car parks for disabled and residents only?
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 11:29am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote:
Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either. [/quote] Ha that will be the day.
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:
Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
Ha that will be the day.
Posted by: jaycee, york on 11:30am Fri 28 Mar 08
A perfectly logical and sensible argument Mr Hepworth.Un fortunately reality kicks in.I travel from Acomb to Fulford each day through town and takes approx 20/25 minutes and then park in company car park (free).I have travelled on the bus on a few occasions and it takes 1 1/4-1 1/2 hours door to door and costs £3.00.I am sorry but it is no contest.
A perfectly logical and sensible argument Mr Hepworth.Un fortunately reality kicks in.I travel from Acomb to Fulford each day through town and takes approx 20/25 minutes and then park in company car park (free).I have travelled on the bus on a few occasions and it takes 1 1/4-1 1/2 hours door to door and costs £3.00.I am sorry but it is no contest.
Posted by: Lt.Dobie, Yorkshire on 11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
Jaycee, please share with us how you run your car for free? Time wise the bus looses, but surely it is cheaper over a year (tax, insurance, fuel,servicing,consu
mables...)
Sorry dude, being picky I know! But cars aren't free.
At the risk of bringing in 'environmental doubters', the big issue here is the green issue. Whether you believe (nay, care?) climate change is happening or not; the fact is that fossil fuels are running out, so owt we can do limit use is surely a good idea? And associated benfits of less CO2 can't do us any harm.
Jaycee, please share with us how you run your car for free? Time wise the bus looses, but surely it is cheaper over a year (tax, insurance, fuel,servicing,consu
mables...)
Sorry dude, being picky I know! But cars aren't free.
At the risk of bringing in 'environmental doubters', the big issue here is the green issue. Whether you believe (nay, care?) climate change is happening or not; the fact is that fossil fuels are running out, so owt we can do limit use is surely a good idea? And associated benfits of less CO2 can't do us any harm.
Posted by: David, York on 11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
Fantastic news for First - Imagine how their profits will continue to soar now that CYC are building new traps to force people onto their overpriced buses. Cant really blame the council for this though - lib dems have always wanted to do this - can only really blame those fools who keep voting for them.
Shortsighted/narrow minded and politically driven investment - a perfect example of the UK in the 21st century
Fantastic news for First - Imagine how their profits will continue to soar now that CYC are building new traps to force people onto their overpriced buses. Cant really blame the council for this though - lib dems have always wanted to do this - can only really blame those fools who keep voting for them.
Shortsighted/narrow minded and politically driven investment - a perfect example of the UK in the 21st century
Posted by: Angry and Frustrated, York on 11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
Mmmmmm...........cal
l me cynical, but I am not hopeful about this plan and I think that Galloway has focused on this because it is a bit of good news that detracts from the farce of his leadership.
There is already a very good bus service from Haxby and Wigginton into York. Those who are willing to travel into York on the bus will already do so - a car park on Wigginton Road is not going to entice the die-hard car user into giving up the car. I accept that it will be good for the hospital, but I suspect only for staff and visitors, and with only 500 spaces will fill up very quickly indeed. I don't think it will be used that much by patients - I know if I were going for a consultation at the hospital, I would not want to queue for the bus - I'd rather get a cab!
It will need to be one hell of a bus lane, given that traffic on Wigginton road is always at a standstill during rush hour!
As for bendy buses - they are a NIGHTMARE and should be banned! Anyone who has to drive down Bootham will know what I mean - they come charging round the corner from Exhibition Square and because of their length end up in the middle of the road - the amount of near misses I have witnessed and been involved in as cars and cyclists going the opposite way try to get of the way in a hurry. Bring back the hoppers (anyone remember them?)
Mmmmmm...........cal
l me cynical, but I am not hopeful about this plan and I think that Galloway has focused on this because it is a bit of good news that detracts from the farce of his leadership.
There is already a very good bus service from Haxby and Wigginton into York. Those who are willing to travel into York on the bus will already do so - a car park on Wigginton Road is not going to entice the die-hard car user into giving up the car. I accept that it will be good for the hospital, but I suspect only for staff and visitors, and with only 500 spaces will fill up very quickly indeed. I don't think it will be used that much by patients - I know if I were going for a consultation at the hospital, I would not want to queue for the bus - I'd rather get a cab!
It will need to be one hell of a bus lane, given that traffic on Wigginton road is always at a standstill during rush hour!
As for bendy buses - they are a NIGHTMARE and should be banned! Anyone who has to drive down Bootham will know what I mean - they come charging round the corner from Exhibition Square and because of their length end up in the middle of the road - the amount of near misses I have witnessed and been involved in as cars and cyclists going the opposite way try to get of the way in a hurry. Bring back the hoppers (anyone remember them?)
Posted by: Elizabeth, york on 11:49am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote:
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more! [/quote] Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion!
At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes.
The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour.
bobby dazzler wrote:
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion!
At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes.
The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour.
Posted by: Flash, York on 11:50am Fri 28 Mar 08
If First are to be awarded the contract then it is deemed to fail, they cannot cope now and provide a far less than average service. I do hope this goes out to tender and a decent firm with decent drivers wins the contract, hope there is no back handers too !! Hepworth your full of steam.(Chose a better word to use).
If First are to be awarded the contract then it is deemed to fail, they cannot cope now and provide a far less than average service. I do hope this goes out to tender and a decent firm with decent drivers wins the contract, hope there is no back handers too !! Hepworth your full of steam.(Chose a better word to use).
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 11:55am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote: Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more! [/quote] Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion! At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes. The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour. [/quote] Ha me and you always seem to be on the opposite sides of a agrument...lol Well yeah schools cause a lot of traffic. Infact there was a problem saying why not walk to school because all our kids are fat. I used to. We are too used to car travel. As was one of the earlier comment though there was a strike and the traffic was a lot more calm. By simply plonking more busses on the raod will not help. haxby busses run every 10mins as it is. What is the need? And as for the green issue they run on deisel which isn't good. They also waste paper and have huge engines. Then we wont even have to go into the price issue.
Elizabeth wrote:
bobby dazzler wrote: Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion! At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes. The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour.
Ha me and you always seem to be on the opposite sides of a agrument...lol Well yeah schools cause a lot of traffic. Infact there was a problem saying why not walk to school because all our kids are fat. I used to. We are too used to car travel. As was one of the earlier comment though there was a strike and the traffic was a lot more calm. By simply plonking more busses on the raod will not help. haxby busses run every 10mins as it is. What is the need? And as for the green issue they run on deisel which isn't good. They also waste paper and have huge engines. Then we wont even have to go into the price issue.
Posted by: Elizabeth, york on 11:59am Fri 28 Mar 08
Agree...buses are too expensive.
As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Agree...buses are too expensive.
As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Posted by: sheddie, York on 12:02pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Re space used (obvious like to congestion caused) by various forms of transport see:
http://www.hubsess.c
om/uploaded_images/2
6080732636761.jpg
or cut 'n paste
www.hubsess.com/uplo
aded_images/26080732
636761.jpg
in case it doesn't like the link...
Re space used (obvious like to congestion caused) by various forms of transport see:
http://www.hubsess.c
om/uploaded_images/2
6080732636761.jpg
or cut 'n paste
www.hubsess.com/uplo
aded_images/26080732
636761.jpg
in case it doesn't like the link...
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 12:07pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either. [/quote] Ha that will be the day. [/quote] Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right.
Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor.
No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'.
Toodle-pip.
bobby dazzler wrote:
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
Ha that will be the day.
Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right.
Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor.
No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'.
Toodle-pip.
Posted by: Miss Amelia Rate, YORK on 12:14pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I agree with Captain Jack. I am not a gambing money but I would bet that we have "congestion" charging sooner rather than later.
I agree with Captain Jack. I am not a gambing money but I would bet that we have "congestion" charging sooner rather than later.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 12:18pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either. [/quote] Ha that will be the day. [/quote] Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right. Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor. No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'. Toodle-pip.[/quote] But that would not work with york as it would be charged within the bar walls. There are ways around town without going into the city centre. York is not london where the city centre is huge. In my opinion people would simple avoid the congestion charge and go around thus creating more traffic. With regards to oils 70p of a litre is tax so it is not the fact that the companies have increaced production costs simple the govenment has found a cash cow. I will be investing in the sunflower oil business either way.
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:
bobby dazzler wrote: Captain Jack Sparrow wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
Ha that will be the day.
Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right. Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor. No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'. Toodle-pip.
But that would not work with york as it would be charged within the bar walls. There are ways around town without going into the city centre. York is not london where the city centre is huge. In my opinion people would simple avoid the congestion charge and go around thus creating more traffic. With regards to oils 70p of a litre is tax so it is not the fact that the companies have increaced production costs simple the govenment has found a cash cow. I will be investing in the sunflower oil business either way.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 12:21pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle. [/quote] Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Elizabeth wrote:
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 12:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote]There are ways around town without going into the city centre[/quote]
Agreed Bobby, they will classify within the walls and bits without walls as the zone.
Emperor Brown is fast running out of tax options - there's only certain things you can tax to a level before it becomes an impossibility. Motorists are a huge source of revenue. There's millions of vehicles and much money invested in fuelling, taxing and running them. Everybody spends on their car. It's a guaranteed source of income.
There are ways around town without going into the city centre
Agreed Bobby, they will classify within the walls and bits without walls as the zone.
Emperor Brown is fast running out of tax options - there's only certain things you can tax to a level before it becomes an impossibility. Motorists are a huge source of revenue. There's millions of vehicles and much money invested in fuelling, taxing and running them. Everybody spends on their car. It's a guaranteed source of income.
Posted by: Stevie in Selby, Selby on 12:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I am delighted to see that these additional P&R sites are going ahead - they will have a huge impact on reducing congestion on the city centre roads and car parks.
However ...
A huge number of York residents, living in areas like Haxby, Dunnington and Copmanthorpe - which already have good bus services to the city centre - choose to drive to their nearest Park & Ride, adding unnecessary congestion. Why? Because it's cheaper. Unless steps are taken to bring the price of an ordinary bus journey down, we'll see more people driving short distances to use P&R instead of a bus that runs past their front door.
I am delighted to see that these additional P&R sites are going ahead - they will have a huge impact on reducing congestion on the city centre roads and car parks.
However ...
A huge number of York residents, living in areas like Haxby, Dunnington and Copmanthorpe - which already have good bus services to the city centre - choose to drive to their nearest Park & Ride, adding unnecessary congestion. Why? Because it's cheaper. Unless steps are taken to bring the price of an ordinary bus journey down, we'll see more people driving short distances to use P&R instead of a bus that runs past their front door.
Posted by: Elizabeth, york on 12:32pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle. [/quote] Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.[/quote] Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic.
As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses?
bobby dazzler wrote:
Elizabeth wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic.
As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses?
Posted by: YorkieMan, York, UK on 12:37pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Posted by: Peter, york on 12:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle. [/quote] The No.5 by the time it gets to Huntington in the morning rush hour has standing room only, if your lucky. Single decker, yet Farce often run a Double decker at night.
My point is that on some routes there's not the capacity for any more passengers, and I am of the opinion that Farce are therefore trying to suppress demand with their exorditant fares.
Elizabeth wrote:
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
The No.5 by the time it gets to Huntington in the morning rush hour has standing room only, if your lucky. Single decker, yet Farce often run a Double decker at night.
My point is that on some routes there's not the capacity for any more passengers, and I am of the opinion that Farce are therefore trying to suppress demand with their exorditant fares.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 12:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]YorkieMan[/bold] wrote:
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?[/quote] Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
YorkieMan wrote:
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
Posted by: jaycee, york on 12:40pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Sorry LtDobie I think a better way of putting it would have been more convenient.
Sorry LtDobie I think a better way of putting it would have been more convenient.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 12:43pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle. [/quote] Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.[/quote] Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic. As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses? [/quote] Ha you take offence to easily i was referring to hobos as the winos who sit on the bus with 2 litres! There is one homeless person in york and thats it. Im suggesting that i see some pretty rough people when i get on the bus. Would you want to get on the bus alone at night and get off down chappy? Doubt it. Although your logic is good it is unrealitic. The bus companys have had to pay for those big bendy ones at a hefty price. The price will never come down and even if they did people would not use the busses still. Might i suggest a decent cycle faciltiy would be far more efficient with a decent place to lock ur bike up?
Elizabeth wrote:
bobby dazzler wrote: Elizabeth wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic. As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses?
Ha you take offence to easily i was referring to hobos as the winos who sit on the bus with 2 litres! There is one homeless person in york and thats it. Im suggesting that i see some pretty rough people when i get on the bus. Would you want to get on the bus alone at night and get off down chappy? Doubt it. Although your logic is good it is unrealitic. The bus companys have had to pay for those big bendy ones at a hefty price. The price will never come down and even if they did people would not use the busses still. Might i suggest a decent cycle faciltiy would be far more efficient with a decent place to lock ur bike up?
Posted by: Thorngarn, York on 12:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Many of the points made on this issue seem to stem from the idea that the car is the only viable solution for personal transport in York. My experience has shown that my personal choice not to own a car for the last 7 years has not been a detrimental choice. I travel to and from work, do all my shopping, and visit friends and family, and ALL without using a car. My travel times are usually quicker especially at rush hour, and I never go through red lights or up one way streets. I save enough each year to pay for at least one weeks holiday and I am fitter for it. You can always make a choice not to use a car, and it doesnt hurt your pocket. I do hire a car for longer trips, or book in advance on the trains. Buses in York are working at a disadvantage due to fuel costs, road infrastructure, and public usage. Until we reach the tipping point where bikes/buses/feet become the 'no-brainer' option the car will be seen as the easiest option. Until then if you are capable of walking then give the bike a chance.
Many of the points made on this issue seem to stem from the idea that the car is the only viable solution for personal transport in York. My experience has shown that my personal choice not to own a car for the last 7 years has not been a detrimental choice. I travel to and from work, do all my shopping, and visit friends and family, and ALL without using a car. My travel times are usually quicker especially at rush hour, and I never go through red lights or up one way streets. I save enough each year to pay for at least one weeks holiday and I am fitter for it. You can always make a choice not to use a car, and it doesnt hurt your pocket. I do hire a car for longer trips, or book in advance on the trains. Buses in York are working at a disadvantage due to fuel costs, road infrastructure, and public usage. Until we reach the tipping point where bikes/buses/feet become the 'no-brainer' option the car will be seen as the easiest option. Until then if you are capable of walking then give the bike a chance.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 12:55pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]YorkieMan[/bold] wrote: Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?[/quote] Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.[/quote] They are a great idea and do well in france. However in york with narrow roads they simply can not manouver. Poor testing. Jack i find it strange that you seem to like them though if you cycle? all the cyclists i speak to hate the huge things as they tend to come within 5 inches of your bike or are right up behind you?
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:
YorkieMan wrote: Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
They are a great idea and do well in france. However in york with narrow roads they simply can not manouver. Poor testing. Jack i find it strange that you seem to like them though if you cycle? all the cyclists i speak to hate the huge things as they tend to come within 5 inches of your bike or are right up behind you?
Posted by: Dick Turpin, Forest of Galtreys on 1:03pm Fri 28 Mar 08
And still no mention of opening up a railway station at Strensall and Haxby. Looks like Black Bess will still be put to good use.
And still no mention of opening up a railway station at Strensall and Haxby. Looks like Black Bess will still be put to good use.
Posted by: Mike C, york on 1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I never get a reply from bobby dazzler or the other amazing folk who want "fewer buses clogging up the roads" to the point that just 45 people switching from one bus to 45 cars will occupy well over 1,000 yards, probably two thirds of a mile, of road while moving. Now work out the sum for the extra cars replacing all the buses on York's road in a rush hour, and please, please, tell me where all the world's traffic experts are going wrong promoting public transport to avoid gridlock?
I never get a reply from bobby dazzler or the other amazing folk who want "fewer buses clogging up the roads" to the point that just 45 people switching from one bus to 45 cars will occupy well over 1,000 yards, probably two thirds of a mile, of road while moving. Now work out the sum for the extra cars replacing all the buses on York's road in a rush hour, and please, please, tell me where all the world's traffic experts are going wrong promoting public transport to avoid gridlock?
Posted by: Stephen, York on 1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Only thing missing from the steve Galloway and first busses picture is 2 large bags of money in his hands.
"Hopefully, within a couple of years you will see work starting."
So it wont start immediately then so thay can grab the interest first before building starts.
Completion by 2011 also means an increase in cars of 30%+ so its already not enough spaces.
Nor will it ever be due to the increased number of flats being built in York so where are they to all park too.
Anyone actually noticed how UNDER UTILISED some of the platforms are at YORK Station.
Why is Poppleton not having a Park and Rail site? The same for other outer areas.
So much for green ECO-friendly solutions.
Some might even say grab the cash and stop free competition is more like it.
Only thing missing from the steve Galloway and first busses picture is 2 large bags of money in his hands.
"Hopefully, within a couple of years you will see work starting."
So it wont start immediately then so thay can grab the interest first before building starts.
Completion by 2011 also means an increase in cars of 30%+ so its already not enough spaces.
Nor will it ever be due to the increased number of flats being built in York so where are they to all park too.
Anyone actually noticed how UNDER UTILISED some of the platforms are at YORK Station.
Why is Poppleton not having a Park and Rail site? The same for other outer areas.
So much for green ECO-friendly solutions.
Some might even say grab the cash and stop free competition is more like it.
Posted by: art, York on 1:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt).
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt).
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
Posted by: HOBBIT, at work on 1:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote: Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car. [/quote] No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.[/quote] Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
bobby dazzler wrote:
Paul Hepworth wrote: Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
Posted by: art, York on 1:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt).
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt).
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
Posted by: AMD, At my desk on 1:12pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Everyone should compromise, buy a motorbike, can cut through traffic like a knife through butter and park outside the office and whats more you get to be vilified by everyone for doing so despite the fact you are riding within the law, on a vehicle thats always at least 50% full and uses less space.
Everyone should compromise, buy a motorbike, can cut through traffic like a knife through butter and park outside the office and whats more you get to be vilified by everyone for doing so despite the fact you are riding within the law, on a vehicle thats always at least 50% full and uses less space.
Posted by: Absolute Hogwash, Heworth on 1:17pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Respect Thorngarn!
I am always pleased to hear good news about public transport, however I agree about the cost on First! It is cheaper for me to get in my car and drive to Monks Cross P&R with a 10 minute service than walk to the end of my raod and get the half hourly number 13. Luckily I have got a choice with the Coastliner service that is much cheaper, than both.
Most of the correspondents who are slagging off the busses never use them, so are showing their ignorance!
Respect Thorngarn!
I am always pleased to hear good news about public transport, however I agree about the cost on First! It is cheaper for me to get in my car and drive to Monks Cross P&R with a 10 minute service than walk to the end of my raod and get the half hourly number 13. Luckily I have got a choice with the Coastliner service that is much cheaper, than both.
Most of the correspondents who are slagging off the busses never use them, so are showing their ignorance!
Posted by: (A), York on 1:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The reasons P&R fares are cheaper than the regular bus service is because the P&R service is a partnership between First and CofYC, therefore the council has some say over fare structure.
It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance.
The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection.
The reasons P&R fares are cheaper than the regular bus service is because the P&R service is a partnership between First and CofYC, therefore the council has some say over fare structure.
It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance.
The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection.
Posted by: art, York on 1:29pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The Coastliner buses are great (cheaper, more reliable and with more helpful bus drivers too), but wouldn't it be nice if our local buses offered the same prices and service if they're going to be more regular?
The Coastliner buses are great (cheaper, more reliable and with more helpful bus drivers too), but wouldn't it be nice if our local buses offered the same prices and service if they're going to be more regular?
Posted by: yorkie, york on 1:29pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]art[/bold] wrote:
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt). The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too? [/quote] they tried this announcing it with a big spread in the press, then when i walked disabled mother, sis straight from hospital after operation and two young children down to their stop outside tower, told in no uncertain terms by driver that they didn't do that sort of thing no more! i look after my own now by car.
art wrote:
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt). The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
they tried this announcing it with a big spread in the press, then when i walked disabled mother, sis straight from hospital after operation and two young children down to their stop outside tower, told in no uncertain terms by driver that they didn't do that sort of thing no more! i look after my own now by car.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 1:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]YorkieMan[/bold] wrote:
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?[/quote] Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
YorkieMan wrote:
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
Posted by: Mullarkian, York on 1:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
What a scream! - a Wigginton road park and ride, who'll use it? the bus service from Haxby/Wigginton is perfectly adequate.
Another thing - why is it legal to stand as a passenger on buses, (& trains for that matter), when if you travel by car you have to be belted in. If government and councils are so concerned about safety then why is this allowed? - you certainly not allowed to stand in the aisle on planes.
What a scream! - a Wigginton road park and ride, who'll use it? the bus service from Haxby/Wigginton is perfectly adequate.
Another thing - why is it legal to stand as a passenger on buses, (& trains for that matter), when if you travel by car you have to be belted in. If government and councils are so concerned about safety then why is this allowed? - you certainly not allowed to stand in the aisle on planes.
Posted by: Stephen, York on 1:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
£3 bus ride to Tesco Tadcaster and £5 loaded taxi ride home.
Not cheap by any standards
Take your own motor and use BIO-DIESEL
£3 bus ride to Tesco Tadcaster and £5 loaded taxi ride home.
Not cheap by any standards
Take your own motor and use BIO-DIESEL
Posted by: yorkie, york on 1:34pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold](A)[/bold] wrote:
The reasons P&R fares are cheaper than the regular bus service is because the P&R service is a partnership between First and CofYC, therefore the council has some say over fare structure. It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance. The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection. [/quote] remember coy C in partnership to run yorwaste and contrary to the contract just pulled waste collections from numerous rural residents, don't pretend they care about the taxpayers other than election time!
(A) wrote:
The reasons P&R fares are cheaper than the regular bus service is because the P&R service is a partnership between First and CofYC, therefore the council has some say over fare structure. It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance. The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection.
remember coy C in partnership to run yorwaste and contrary to the contract just pulled waste collections from numerous rural residents, don't pretend they care about the taxpayers other than election time!
Posted by: Alastair, york on 1:37pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme.
I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme.
Posted by: littlebob, copmanthorpe on 1:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
all this is ok but park and ride should do as it says and not stop between the park and ride site and town
all this is ok but park and ride should do as it says and not stop between the park and ride site and town
Posted by: LiarPrior, york on 1:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
'Anyone actually noticed how UNDER UTILISED some of the platforms are at YORK Station.'
Absolute tosh i'm afraid. Just because a platform may be empty doesn't mean the approaches to the junctions, platforms and the running lines are empty. York station and the network are just about running at capacity as it is. Think of it like this.
You want to drive to your house at the end of a cul-de-sac which is only one car wide. It takes 30 seconds.
Then you turn up and the bin wagon is there first. You have to wait for it to get to the other end then reverse out. It takes 5 minutes. Meanwhile there are 5 cars waiting behind you to get to their place in the cul-de-sac.The back one is blocking the junction. Theres a queue of traffic up the main road which can't get through the traffic lights. etc. etc.
It all creates a knock on effect.
There is a similair argument in Scotland from the ill informed MP's in the scottish parliament who want trains to stop at Edinburgh Park but can't see why trains will have 6 minutes added to their journey times, not the 30 second stop they propose. Thats because trains in their tiny little beurocratic minds decelerate from 90mph to 0 when they stop in a fraction of a second. And from 0 mph to 90 instantly when they leave again. (you wouldn't want a hot tea in your hand).
Yet Transport Scotland won't allow any increase in the times for Edinburgh - Glasgow services. So trains still continue to fly past the multi million pound shiny business park (recognised as the fastest economic growth area in Scotland). Scandalous.
It's the knock on effects in an already packed timetable. Adding stops into services is possible, but at at the expense of something elsewhere.
'Anyone actually noticed how UNDER UTILISED some of the platforms are at YORK Station.'
Absolute tosh i'm afraid. Just because a platform may be empty doesn't mean the approaches to the junctions, platforms and the running lines are empty. York station and the network are just about running at capacity as it is. Think of it like this.
You want to drive to your house at the end of a cul-de-sac which is only one car wide. It takes 30 seconds.
Then you turn up and the bin wagon is there first. You have to wait for it to get to the other end then reverse out. It takes 5 minutes. Meanwhile there are 5 cars waiting behind you to get to their place in the cul-de-sac.The back one is blocking the junction. Theres a queue of traffic up the main road which can't get through the traffic lights. etc. etc.
It all creates a knock on effect.
There is a similair argument in Scotland from the ill informed MP's in the scottish parliament who want trains to stop at Edinburgh Park but can't see why trains will have 6 minutes added to their journey times, not the 30 second stop they propose. Thats because trains in their tiny little beurocratic minds decelerate from 90mph to 0 when they stop in a fraction of a second. And from 0 mph to 90 instantly when they leave again. (you wouldn't want a hot tea in your hand).
Yet Transport Scotland won't allow any increase in the times for Edinburgh - Glasgow services. So trains still continue to fly past the multi million pound shiny business park (recognised as the fastest economic growth area in Scotland). Scandalous.
It's the knock on effects in an already packed timetable. Adding stops into services is possible, but at at the expense of something elsewhere.
Posted by: art, York on 1:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
littlebob – why?
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 1:54pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Mike C[/bold] wrote:
I never get a reply from bobby dazzler or the other amazing folk who want "fewer buses clogging up the roads" to the point that just 45 people switching from one bus to 45 cars will occupy well over 1,000 yards, probably two thirds of a mile, of road while moving. Now work out the sum for the extra cars replacing all the buses on York's road in a rush hour, and please, please, tell me where all the world's traffic experts are going wrong promoting public transport to avoid gridlock? [/quote] Very good point mike you do your maths really well.. Shame about reality planning! I can tell you dont drive the route i do when there is a que behind a big dopy bus stopping it stupid points and taking up 2 lanes. The fact is mike half the busses you see are half empty! this makes the bus a waste of space(about 20 yards) People car share now mike. Simply people are not going to pay for a overpriced service which takes longer! Infact the price hike might have something to do with the number 4's ticket machines being usless so having to employ a bus conductor as a poor contigency plan costing us more money on the fare! Public transport is not the way forward decent cylce lanes and locking stations are!
Mike C wrote:
I never get a reply from bobby dazzler or the other amazing folk who want "fewer buses clogging up the roads" to the point that just 45 people switching from one bus to 45 cars will occupy well over 1,000 yards, probably two thirds of a mile, of road while moving. Now work out the sum for the extra cars replacing all the buses on York's road in a rush hour, and please, please, tell me where all the world's traffic experts are going wrong promoting public transport to avoid gridlock?
Very good point mike you do your maths really well.. Shame about reality planning! I can tell you dont drive the route i do when there is a que behind a big dopy bus stopping it stupid points and taking up 2 lanes. The fact is mike half the busses you see are half empty! this makes the bus a waste of space(about 20 yards) People car share now mike. Simply people are not going to pay for a overpriced service which takes longer! Infact the price hike might have something to do with the number 4's ticket machines being usless so having to employ a bus conductor as a poor contigency plan costing us more money on the fare! Public transport is not the way forward decent cylce lanes and locking stations are!
Posted by: Stephen, York on 1:58pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote:
I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme. [/quote] This is an integrated PARK AND BUS SERVICE brown envelope job.
NOT now or ever for PARK and TRAINS as this is to sensible an idea.
Not to mention building on all available land around the York station thus removing future integrated transport system facilities for York.
Also not to mention building on all available city car parks for hotels and flats etc thus removing large venue opertunities for the Barbican in the future too.
Alastair wrote:
I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme.
This is an integrated PARK AND BUS SERVICE brown envelope job.
NOT now or ever for PARK and TRAINS as this is to sensible an idea.
Not to mention building on all available land around the York station thus removing future integrated transport system facilities for York.
Also not to mention building on all available city car parks for hotels and flats etc thus removing large venue opertunities for the Barbican in the future too.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 2:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Stephen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote: I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme. [/quote] This is an integrated PARK AND BUS SERVICE brown envelope job. NOT now or ever for PARK and TRAINS as this is to sensible an idea. Not to mention building on all available land around the York station thus removing future integrated transport system facilities for York. Also not to mention building on all available city car parks for hotels and flats etc thus removing large venue opertunities for the Barbican in the future too.[/quote] Well said.
Stephen wrote:
Alastair wrote: I hope the A59 P&R is sited sensibly - there is already a great train service from poppleton to the centre of York (6-8 minutes). If people can park within walking distance from the station, then this is a good scheme.
This is an integrated PARK AND BUS SERVICE brown envelope job. NOT now or ever for PARK and TRAINS as this is to sensible an idea. Not to mention building on all available land around the York station thus removing future integrated transport system facilities for York. Also not to mention building on all available city car parks for hotels and flats etc thus removing large venue opertunities for the Barbican in the future too.
Well said.
Posted by: Despairing Yorkie, York on 2:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote]Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!![/quote]
£10 fuel cost - and presumably you get the car for free (no purchase costs, finance costs, maintenance costs, depreciation costs, licence costs, company car tax costs, parking costs etc.) - please tell us how you do this? Cars aren't provided free. The issue is how much it costs you for a year's personal transport - the true comparison is between the real cost of a car and how much transport by other means you could buy for that money (including hire cars, train fares, taxis, bike, walking.) Vast amounts of taxpayers money are spent subsidising private companies to create a national infrastructure designed entirely around making car use easier than all other options. The result is that the public is under the impression that space on the road network is "free" and that driving a car is some kind of human right. Glad to see some money being devoted to an alternative.
Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
£10 fuel cost - and presumably you get the car for free (no purchase costs, finance costs, maintenance costs, depreciation costs, licence costs, company car tax costs, parking costs etc.) - please tell us how you do this? Cars aren't provided free. The issue is how much it costs you for a year's personal transport - the true comparison is between the real cost of a car and how much transport by other means you could buy for that money (including hire cars, train fares, taxis, bike, walking.) Vast amounts of taxpayers money are spent subsidising private companies to create a national infrastructure designed entirely around making car use easier than all other options. The result is that the public is under the impression that space on the road network is "free" and that driving a car is some kind of human right. Glad to see some money being devoted to an alternative.
Posted by: bobby dazzler, york on 2:47pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Despairing Yorkie[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!![/quote] £10 fuel cost - and presumably you get the car for free (no purchase costs, finance costs, maintenance costs, depreciation costs, licence costs, company car tax costs, parking costs etc.) - please tell us how you do this? Cars aren't provided free. The issue is how much it costs you for a year's personal transport - the true comparison is between the real cost of a car and how much transport by other means you could buy for that money (including hire cars, train fares, taxis, bike, walking.) Vast amounts of taxpayers money are spent subsidising private companies to create a national infrastructure designed entirely around making car use easier than all other options. The result is that the public is under the impression that space on the road network is "free" and that driving a car is some kind of human right. Glad to see some money being devoted to an alternative.[/quote] What are you ranting on about? you cant bring depretiation cost into it? Its dead money? this is about running a car! Not the cars value! So when you add 2.90 by 5 = £14.50 times that by 4 and thats 58 quid a month(or every 4 weeks). 18 pound above the car petrol cost! With that you could put that extra 18 quid away for the car tax and mot. It would even cover some of your insurance if you knew your stuff. Also 2.90 was a flat journey presuming the bus goes direct to where you want to go(if it doesn't it would cost more) so i really dont see how you can base a agrument? The fact is the bus is too expensive! Too big and stops in stupi places to even consider it a benifit! Like i've been saying why not invest in decent cycle lanes and lock up points and save petrol on cars and busses and help us not become a fat sloff nation!
Despairing Yorkie wrote:
Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
£10 fuel cost - and presumably you get the car for free (no purchase costs, finance costs, maintenance costs, depreciation costs, licence costs, company car tax costs, parking costs etc.) - please tell us how you do this? Cars aren't provided free. The issue is how much it costs you for a year's personal transport - the true comparison is between the real cost of a car and how much transport by other means you could buy for that money (including hire cars, train fares, taxis, bike, walking.) Vast amounts of taxpayers money are spent subsidising private companies to create a national infrastructure designed entirely around making car use easier than all other options. The result is that the public is under the impression that space on the road network is "free" and that driving a car is some kind of human right. Glad to see some money being devoted to an alternative.
What are you ranting on about? you cant bring depretiation cost into it? Its dead money? this is about running a car! Not the cars value! So when you add 2.90 by 5 = £14.50 times that by 4 and thats 58 quid a month(or every 4 weeks). 18 pound above the car petrol cost! With that you could put that extra 18 quid away for the car tax and mot. It would even cover some of your insurance if you knew your stuff. Also 2.90 was a flat journey presuming the bus goes direct to where you want to go(if it doesn't it would cost more) so i really dont see how you can base a agrument? The fact is the bus is too expensive! Too big and stops in stupi places to even consider it a benifit! Like i've been saying why not invest in decent cycle lanes and lock up points and save petrol on cars and busses and help us not become a fat sloff nation!
Posted by: Cyber-Dyne systems model 101, The future on 3:21pm Fri 28 Mar 08
One of my biggest problems with busses is no matter how reliable or cheap you make them you still have to walk to the bus stop.
Now that fine if its just round the corner or its a fine summers day, but in the cold wind and rain, which lets face it, is most of the time in the UK, why would I do it when a car is some much more convenient
One of my biggest problems with busses is no matter how reliable or cheap you make them you still have to walk to the bus stop.
Now that fine if its just round the corner or its a fine summers day, but in the cold wind and rain, which lets face it, is most of the time in the UK, why would I do it when a car is some much more convenient
Posted by: Captain Hook, York on 3:40pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Im lucky enough to live very close to a park and ride, its actually quicker for me to walk to the site and pay £30 a month, than to walk to the main road, get the rubbish number 5 and pay £46 a month.... and the drivers are nicer
Im lucky enough to live very close to a park and ride, its actually quicker for me to walk to the site and pay £30 a month, than to walk to the main road, get the rubbish number 5 and pay £46 a month.... and the drivers are nicer
Posted by: jacqual, Selby area on 3:48pm Fri 28 Mar 08
jaycee - to go back a bit, my daughter travels from Acomb to Fulford regularly - on her bike! She goes via the new bridge, it takes her about 40 minutes, keeps her fit, so she doesn't need to spend money joining a gym, and costs very little - just maintenance for the bike.
York used to be noted for the amount of people who cycled. Why can't people from out of town who work in York park at the park and ride places and use a folding bike to cycle into the city, so that there are fewer buses nad cars on the roads?
jaycee - to go back a bit, my daughter travels from Acomb to Fulford regularly - on her bike! She goes via the new bridge, it takes her about 40 minutes, keeps her fit, so she doesn't need to spend money joining a gym, and costs very little - just maintenance for the bike.
York used to be noted for the amount of people who cycled. Why can't people from out of town who work in York park at the park and ride places and use a folding bike to cycle into the city, so that there are fewer buses nad cars on the roads?
Posted by: Mac, York on 3:53pm Fri 28 Mar 08
If the bus stops near Ouse bridge were removed, a major bottleneck to traffic would disappear. Buses are inflexible and are no longer relevant to modern livind apart perhaps for commuters,
If the bus stops near Ouse bridge were removed, a major bottleneck to traffic would disappear. Buses are inflexible and are no longer relevant to modern livind apart perhaps for commuters,
Posted by: Stephen, York on 4:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]jacqual[/bold] wrote:
jaycee - to go back a bit, my daughter travels from Acomb to Fulford regularly - on her bike! She goes via the new bridge, it takes her about 40 minutes, keeps her fit, so she doesn't need to spend money joining a gym, and costs very little - just maintenance for the bike. York used to be noted for the amount of people who cycled. Why can't people from out of town who work in York park at the park and ride places and use a folding bike to cycle into the city, so that there are fewer buses nad cars on the roads?[/quote] And when she is old and on crutches due to knee cartlidge problems what does she do then.
Take the disabled car of course.
jacqual wrote:
jaycee - to go back a bit, my daughter travels from Acomb to Fulford regularly - on her bike! She goes via the new bridge, it takes her about 40 minutes, keeps her fit, so she doesn't need to spend money joining a gym, and costs very little - just maintenance for the bike. York used to be noted for the amount of people who cycled. Why can't people from out of town who work in York park at the park and ride places and use a folding bike to cycle into the city, so that there are fewer buses nad cars on the roads?
And when she is old and on crutches due to knee cartlidge problems what does she do then.
Take the disabled car of course.
Posted by: Mike C, york on 4:19pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler: I cycle everywhere, but sadly many can't or won't. Back to the buses: yes, the purple monsters, are quite unsuitable for York, e.g. the Blossom Street turn into Queen Street. However, rush hour along Tad Rd has many jam-packed buses; take those away, assume sadly only a very few will switch to bikes or carshare, and it would be complete gridlock. Just three busloads transferred to cars would stretch from Askham Bar roundabout to the Mount! And there's a lot more than three full buses between 8 and 9 a.m.! Now reverse the picture - switch all the car drivers on that length of road into three buses, and think how swiftly they'd sail in.
bobby dazzler: I cycle everywhere, but sadly many can't or won't. Back to the buses: yes, the purple monsters, are quite unsuitable for York, e.g. the Blossom Street turn into Queen Street. However, rush hour along Tad Rd has many jam-packed buses; take those away, assume sadly only a very few will switch to bikes or carshare, and it would be complete gridlock. Just three busloads transferred to cars would stretch from Askham Bar roundabout to the Mount! And there's a lot more than three full buses between 8 and 9 a.m.! Now reverse the picture - switch all the car drivers on that length of road into three buses, and think how swiftly they'd sail in.
Posted by: newshawk, York on 4:52pm Fri 28 Mar 08
live on the Acomb end of number one route and don't drive. Experience has taught me that if, on arriving at the bus stop no bus is in sight, I should start walking. More often than not I'm in town before one overtakes me or too close to care.
live on the Acomb end of number one route and don't drive. Experience has taught me that if, on arriving at the bus stop no bus is in sight, I should start walking. More often than not I'm in town before one overtakes me or too close to care.
Posted by: wildthing666, york on 5:14pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The bus is also uncomfortable and the driver heavy on the breaks, they need to learn how to brake gently every time I use a bus my back pain is a lot worse than when I get on.
The bus is also uncomfortable and the driver heavy on the breaks, they need to learn how to brake gently every time I use a bus my back pain is a lot worse than when I get on.
Posted by: Peter, York on 6:10pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote:
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more! [/quote] If the roads gave priority for buses correctly they would not block junctions, also a single bus can carry 77 passengers this means a possibility that the one bus has kept 30 to 77 cars out of york thats what P & R was started for in the first place, the more cars kept out the better, well done CYC need to get them working sooner though.
bobby dazzler wrote:
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
If the roads gave priority for buses correctly they would not block junctions, also a single bus can carry 77 passengers this means a possibility that the one bus has kept 30 to 77 cars out of york thats what P & R was started for in the first place, the more cars kept out the better, well done CYC need to get them working sooner though.
Posted by: Plaggy Terry, Classic Cnuts on 6:28pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]HOBBIT[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote: Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car. [/quote] No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.[/quote] Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!![/quote] buy a car then
HOBBIT wrote:
bobby dazzler wrote: Paul Hepworth wrote: Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
buy a car then
Posted by: ennoch, York on 7:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
If only the bus driver had put on a little gas and veered left the press photographer would have scooped a much better shot?!
If only the bus driver had put on a little gas and veered left the press photographer would have scooped a much better shot?!
Posted by: see sense, york on 7:24pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bobby dazzler[/bol
