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£21 million to ease York’s traffic-choked streets
11:03am Friday 28th March 2008
Comments (77)RELIEF could be in sight for thousands of long-suffering commuters as York looks set to secure £21 million for three new Park&Ride sites.
The Regional Transport Board is being advised to approve the Access York bid next week following a campaign by City of York Council, which was backed by The Press.
The congestion-busting boost for York's transport system would increase the number of Park&Ride spaces in the city from 3,750 to 5,700, taking hundreds of cars off the roads every hour.
The Askham Bar Park&Ride site would double to 1,250 spaces - it is currently used by 600,000 passengers a year and is normally full by 10am.
Another 750 spaces would also be created at a new site on the A59 near Poppleton while a 500-space site would open in Wigginton Road, near Clifton Moor, which would also serve York Hospital.
Damon Copperthwaite, the council's assistant director for city strategy and transport, said work would get under way immediately if the bid was approved, and the three sites should be operating by 2011.
As part of the work, a bigger roundabout would also be built on the outer ring road at the A59 and A1237 junction, while priority bus lanes would be created in Wigginton Road and Boroughbridge Road.
Council leader Steve Galloway, who will be attending next Friday's meeting, said it was "great news for our city".
"I am delighted that Yorkshire Regional Assembly officers are recommending this huge investment in the city's transport infrastructure," he said.
"I am grateful to The Press and its readers for fully supporting the Access York bid. I am sure that those petitioning have influenced regional thinking and fortunately, on this occasion, it looks like there will be something to show for readers' efforts."
Coun Galloway added: "Potentially these new facilities will take hundreds of congestion-causing car trips off our roads each hour and will complete the circle of Park&Ride sites available to those visiting the city.
| Space invaders |
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York has 3,750 spaces in its Park&Ride network. By 2011, there will be 5,700: |
"Park&Ride has been one of our biggest success stories in recent times with around four million passenger journeys being made each year.
"This additional capacity will allow the system to attract even more users reducing the number of vehicles in and around our city. If agreed, this will be the largest public transport project ever implemented in the city. Hopefully, within a couple of years you will see work starting."
Coun Andy D'Agorne, of the Green Party, also welcomed the news but questioned what the impact would be on other transport schemes for the city.
"It is certainly good news that there's support for public transport, but I wouldn't like to see other improvements to walking, cycling and highways in the city shelved as a result," he said.
| Access campaign |
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The Press Access York campaign called on the Government to throw its weight behind York’s planned bid for cash to fund three new Park&Ride sites. |
His Green Party colleague Coun Dave Taylor said: "We approve of Park&Ride as part of the way in which we can make York more accessible to commuters and visitors without them bringing cars into the city. We are very much in favour of measures such as these to increase use of public transport."
Also up for agreement is an innovative Yorcard (smartcard) system allowing passengers to use a single card payment method for all bus, rail, tram and community transport journeys across Yorkshire and Humberside. This is expected to cost the Government £28 million.
Another scheme, which could benefit York commuters accessing Leeds, is a 500-place park- and-rail site which would replace the current Micklefield railway station However, the future of the Hopgrove roundabout improvement hangs in the balance with it being grouped as "a third priority" scheme in the officer's assessment on what offers value for money. Currently it is not recommended for approval because of the region's limited transport budget.
Have your say
Is Park&Ride a good way of getting York out of a jam?
Your Say YourPress
marc, says...
11:11am Fri 28 Mar 08
Paul Hepworth, York says...
11:12am Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
11:18am Fri 28 Mar 08
Paul Hepworth wrote:No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.
what???, york says...
11:21am Fri 28 Mar 08
I remember a couple of years ago when the bus drives were on strike and instead of the chaos you would expect with more people in cars, the traffic in york was very much less congested than being stuck behind buses in main roads letting off passengers and picking them up.
Also have you ever driven behind the bendy buses... on the majority of their routes they routinely take up 2 lanes of traffic as york roads are not wide enough for them to drive through and certainly not to get around corners.
No News Is Good News, York says...
11:21am Fri 28 Mar 08
Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall says...
11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
bobby dazzler, york says...
11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
No News Is Good News wrote:Agreed. However the money would be better spent on a 500-1 horse its that bad a idea.
The money would be better spent adding an extra lane on the A1237. people would use it more than going through town if it moved freely like the A64 does.
Galloway Out, says...
11:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
yorkie, york says...
11:26am Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
11:29am Fri 28 Mar 08
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:Ha that will be the day.
Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.
jaycee, york says...
11:30am Fri 28 Mar 08
Lt.Dobie, Yorkshire says...
11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
mables...)
Sorry dude, being picky I know! But cars aren't free.
At the risk of bringing in 'environmental doubters', the big issue here is the green issue. Whether you believe (nay, care?) climate change is happening or not; the fact is that fossil fuels are running out, so owt we can do limit use is surely a good idea? And associated benfits of less CO2 can't do us any harm.
David, York says...
11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
Shortsighted/narrow minded and politically driven investment - a perfect example of the UK in the 21st century
Angry and Frustrated, York says...
11:42am Fri 28 Mar 08
l me cynical, but I am not hopeful about this plan and I think that Galloway has focused on this because it is a bit of good news that detracts from the farce of his leadership.
There is already a very good bus service from Haxby and Wigginton into York. Those who are willing to travel into York on the bus will already do so - a car park on Wigginton Road is not going to entice the die-hard car user into giving up the car. I accept that it will be good for the hospital, but I suspect only for staff and visitors, and with only 500 spaces will fill up very quickly indeed. I don't think it will be used that much by patients - I know if I were going for a consultation at the hospital, I would not want to queue for the bus - I'd rather get a cab!
It will need to be one hell of a bus lane, given that traffic on Wigginton road is always at a standstill during rush hour!
As for bendy buses - they are a NIGHTMARE and should be banned! Anyone who has to drive down Bootham will know what I mean - they come charging round the corner from Exhibition Square and because of their length end up in the middle of the road - the amount of near misses I have witnessed and been involved in as cars and cyclists going the opposite way try to get of the way in a hurry. Bring back the hoppers (anyone remember them?)
Elizabeth, york says...
11:49am Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler wrote:Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion!
Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!
At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes.
The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour.
Flash, York says...
11:50am Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
11:55am Fri 28 Mar 08
Elizabeth wrote:Ha me and you always seem to be on the opposite sides of a agrument...lol Well yeah schools cause a lot of traffic. Infact there was a problem saying why not walk to school because all our kids are fat. I used to. We are too used to car travel. As was one of the earlier comment though there was a strike and the traffic was a lot more calm. By simply plonking more busses on the raod will not help. haxby busses run every 10mins as it is. What is the need? And as for the green issue they run on deisel which isn't good. They also waste paper and have huge engines. Then we wont even have to go into the price issue.
bobby dazzler wrote: Nice one steve you weapon!!! Do some research and realise that busses cause the traffic in the first place! Why not put some more of those big bendy ones on the road to block junctions up even more!Interesting. Yes...Number 4s are not the right sort of bus for York and can cause problems but in general cars cause congestion! At the moment schools are on holiday and there are far less cars on the road in the mornings meaning that a bus journey that can take up to 15 minutes when the roads are clogged with cars, only take 5 minutes. The fact is people are lazy and would rather sit stuck in traffic for half an hour than walk for half an hour.
Elizabeth, york says...
11:59am Fri 28 Mar 08
As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
sheddie, York says...
12:02pm Fri 28 Mar 08
http://www.hubsess.c
om/uploaded_images/2
6080732636761.jpg
or cut 'n paste
www.hubsess.com/uplo
aded_images/26080732
636761.jpg
in case it doesn't like the link...
Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall says...
12:07pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler wrote:Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right.
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.Ha that will be the day.
Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor.
No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'.
Toodle-pip.
Miss Amelia Rate, YORK says...
12:14pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
12:18pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:But that would not work with york as it would be charged within the bar walls. There are ways around town without going into the city centre. York is not london where the city centre is huge. In my opinion people would simple avoid the congestion charge and go around thus creating more traffic. With regards to oils 70p of a litre is tax so it is not the fact that the companies have increaced production costs simple the govenment has found a cash cow. I will be investing in the sunflower oil business either way.
bobby dazzler wrote:Give it 5 years bobby lad and we shall see who is right. Taking into account present pricing rises and global consumption rates, you'll be paying over £200 in 5 years to fill an average family 4 door saloon up (don't forget that most of the major oil players are past their production peaks). I can guarantee that wage rises will not reflect this factor. No need to get worked up, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to worry about in carworld. If I'm right though, well, 'the Germans will be marching up Whitehall within the week'. Toodle-pip.Captain Jack Sparrow wrote: Whatever your view, like it or lump it, the writing is on the wall for the car. Congestion charging won't be far behind either.Ha that will be the day.
bobby dazzler, york says...
12:21pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Elizabeth wrote:Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall says...
12:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
There are ways around town without going into the city centre
Agreed Bobby, they will classify within the walls and bits without walls as the zone.
Emperor Brown is fast running out of tax options - there's only certain things you can tax to a level before it becomes an impossibility. Motorists are a huge source of revenue. There's millions of vehicles and much money invested in fuelling, taxing and running them. Everybody spends on their car. It's a guaranteed source of income.
Stevie in Selby, Selby says...
12:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
However ...
A huge number of York residents, living in areas like Haxby, Dunnington and Copmanthorpe - which already have good bus services to the city centre - choose to drive to their nearest Park & Ride, adding unnecessary congestion. Why? Because it's cheaper. Unless steps are taken to bring the price of an ordinary bus journey down, we'll see more people driving short distances to use P&R instead of a bus that runs past their front door.
Elizabeth, york says...
12:32pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler wrote:Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic.
Elizabeth wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses?
YorkieMan, York, UK says...
12:37pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Peter, york says...
12:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Elizabeth wrote:The No.5 by the time it gets to Huntington in the morning rush hour has standing room only, if your lucky. Single decker, yet Farce often run a Double decker at night.
Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.
My point is that on some routes there's not the capacity for any more passengers, and I am of the opinion that Farce are therefore trying to suppress demand with their exorditant fares.
Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall says...
12:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
YorkieMan wrote:Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
jaycee, york says...
12:40pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
12:43pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Elizabeth wrote:Ha you take offence to easily i was referring to hobos as the winos who sit on the bus with 2 litres! There is one homeless person in york and thats it. Im suggesting that i see some pretty rough people when i get on the bus. Would you want to get on the bus alone at night and get off down chappy? Doubt it. Although your logic is good it is unrealitic. The bus companys have had to pay for those big bendy ones at a hefty price. The price will never come down and even if they did people would not use the busses still. Might i suggest a decent cycle faciltiy would be far more efficient with a decent place to lock ur bike up?
bobby dazzler wrote:Yes but cheaper fares and more buses = less cars on the road. Its simple logic. As for your comment about "hobos". As well as being an offensive term its utter rubbish. The majority of bus passengers are not homeless people. And are you suggesting homeless people are worth less than others and should not be allowed on buses?Elizabeth wrote: Agree...buses are too expensive. As for not being green, if they were cheaper and more people used them in favour of their cars then they would be a greener option becuase there would be less cars on the road with more people on a single vehicle.Exactly so while the busses are too expensive. And the fact you have to stand and there are a lot of hobo's on it, people will not use them. It just creates another huge engine on the road, more traffic and another waste of money.
Thorngarn, York says...
12:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
12:55pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:They are a great idea and do well in france. However in york with narrow roads they simply can not manouver. Poor testing. Jack i find it strange that you seem to like them though if you cycle? all the cyclists i speak to hate the huge things as they tend to come within 5 inches of your bike or are right up behind you?
YorkieMan wrote: Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
Dick Turpin, Forest of Galtreys says...
1:03pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Mike C, york says...
1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Stephen, York says...
1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
"Hopefully, within a couple of years you will see work starting."
So it wont start immediately then so thay can grab the interest first before building starts.
Completion by 2011 also means an increase in cars of 30%+ so its already not enough spaces.
Nor will it ever be due to the increased number of flats being built in York so where are they to all park too.
Anyone actually noticed how UNDER UTILISED some of the platforms are at YORK Station.
Why is Poppleton not having a Park and Rail site? The same for other outer areas.
So much for green ECO-friendly solutions.
Some might even say grab the cash and stop free competition is more like it.
art, York says...
1:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
HOBBIT, at work says...
1:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler wrote:Gotta say, got the bus this morn, 2.90 for a return from CC to Osbaldwick?? I dont think I'l be doing that again, compete rip off... It only used to cost me £10per week in the comfort of my own car!!
Paul Hepworth wrote: Buses casuse traffic? How very quaint. The boot is really on the other foot. Buses need to be given artificial priority to reduce their journey times, rather than being clogged up by thousands of short distance, single occupancy car users. Once buses become faster than cars, we will surely see a huge voluntary switch to them by commuters. That will help to stave off gridlock and congestion charging, and free up road space for those who need, rather than want to, commute by car.No actually hepworth once busses become cheaper then cars we might! And as for clogging up you have clearly never seen a no 4 block the cross keys junction as there is a stop on the corner, nor been behind in on blossom street when to turn let it has to go into the middle lane. It also doesnt help on the mount when busses push in the left lane blocking cars from moving up when the light is green. So yes they do cause traffic.
art, York says...
1:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
AMD, At my desk says...
1:12pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Absolute Hogwash, Heworth says...
1:17pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I am always pleased to hear good news about public transport, however I agree about the cost on First! It is cheaper for me to get in my car and drive to Monks Cross P&R with a 10 minute service than walk to the end of my raod and get the half hourly number 13. Luckily I have got a choice with the Coastliner service that is much cheaper, than both.
Most of the correspondents who are slagging off the busses never use them, so are showing their ignorance!
(A), York says...
1:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance.
The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection.
art, York says...
1:29pm Fri 28 Mar 08
yorkie, york says...
1:29pm Fri 28 Mar 08
art wrote:they tried this announcing it with a big spread in the press, then when i walked disabled mother, sis straight from hospital after operation and two young children down to their stop outside tower, told in no uncertain terms by driver that they didn't do that sort of thing no more! i look after my own now by car.
Great. So it will be cheaper for me to drive out of town to get a P&R bus than it is to get into town by bus from the top of my road (and quicker and more reliable too, no doubt). The Council and First really need to sort that one out. It shouldn't cost more NOT to use your car if you live within the P&R area. Are they going to let the P&R buses pick up en route from Askham Bar, like they do from other P&R routes so locals can benefit from the increased bus service too?
Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall says...
1:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
YorkieMan wrote:Ditto. I like them too. I pushbike everywhere though - I have a car but can barely afford to fuel and run the thing.
Can I put in a desenting voice? I actually quite like the Park 'n Ride services including the bendy buses so this is great news. But why can't work start sooner?
Mullarkian, York says...
1:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Another thing - why is it legal to stand as a passenger on buses, (& trains for that matter), when if you travel by car you have to be belted in. If government and councils are so concerned about safety then why is this allowed? - you certainly not allowed to stand in the aisle on planes.
Stephen, York says...
1:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Not cheap by any standards
Take your own motor and use BIO-DIESEL
yorkie, york says...
1:34pm Fri 28 Mar 08
(A) wrote:remember coy C in partnership to run yorwaste and contrary to the contract just pulled waste collections from numerous rural residents, don't pretend they care about the taxpayers other than election time!
The reasons P&R fares are cheaper than the regular bus service is because the P&R service is a partnership between First and CofYC, therefore the council has some say over fare structure. It is ludicrous local residents are driving to P&R sites to catch a cheaper bus, when local services are probably within walking distance. The problem stems from Thatcher's ideological decision to de-regulate the buses back in the eighties and allow private companies to run them for profit, not the public good. Most commentators here have rightly stated they won't use the buses whilst it is financially prohibitive to do so. The best solution I can see is for re-regulation of the bus services and bring them back under local authority control where fares can be subsidised. Another solution would be to tender out routes every five years or so; this will at least give local authorities the power to determine cheap fare structures are one factor upon selection.
Alastair, york says...
1:37pm Fri 28 Mar 08
littlebob, copmanthorpe says...
1:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
LiarPrior, york says...
1:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Absolute tosh i'm afraid. Just because a platform may be empty doesn't mean the approaches to the junctions, platforms and the running lines are empty. York station and the network are just about running at capacity as it is. Think of it like this.
You want to drive to your house at the end of a cul-de-sac which is only one car wide. It takes 30 seconds.
Then you turn up and the bin wagon is there first. You have to wait for it to get to the other end then reverse out. It takes 5 minutes. Meanwhile there are 5 cars waiting behind you to get to their place in the cul-de-sac.The back one is blocking the junction. Theres a queue of traffic up the main road which can't get through the traffic lights. etc. etc.
It all creates a knock on effect.
There is a similair argument in Scotland from the ill informed MP's in the scottish parliament who want trains to stop at Edinburgh Park but can't see why trains will have 6 minutes added to their journey times, not the 30 second stop they propose. Thats because trains in their tiny little beurocratic minds decelerate from 90mph to 0 when they stop in a fraction of a second. And from 0 mph to 90 instantly when they leave again. (you wouldn't want a hot tea in your hand).
Yet Transport Scotland won't allow any increase in the times for Edinburgh - Glasgow services. So trains still continue to fly past the multi million pound shiny business park (recognised as the fastest economic growth area in Scotland). Scandalous.
It's the knock on effects in an already packed timetable. Adding stops into services is possible, but at at the expense of something elsewhere.
art, York says...
1:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
bobby dazzler, york says...
11:08am Fri 28 Mar 08