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'My son needs an education'
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| Michelle Webster with her son, Nicholas, at their home in Clifton, York |
COUNCIL chiefs have apologised after failing to place a special needs boy in school.
Nicholas Webster, 11, came to live with his mum, of Burton Green Street, Clifton, York, seven weeks ago after spending five months living in Scarborough with his dad.
His mum, Michelle Webster, said Nicholas returned home to live in York when he got "out of control" and tried to jump off the roof of his old school, Pindar Community Sports College, in Scarborough.
When Nicholas came to live in York, Mrs Webster tried to get him into Canon Lee School but City of York Council, which controls admissions to Canon Lee, denied Nicholas entry because of worries over his mental state. Mrs Webster said she was now "desperate" that her son had been out of education for seven weeks.
"It is a nightmare," she said. "The day Nicholas came home I have been trying to get him into school but I've had no success.
"Because of Nicholas's incident at his last school, representatives for Canon Lee said they could not let my son into their school.
"But Nicholas has learning difficulties and he needs to be in education.
"After the Easter holidays, he will have been out of school for eight weeks.
"It is just not good enough. Surely someone should be concerned that my son is not getting an education?"
Mrs Webster said she had made more than 13 phone calls to the council, social services, schools and even the police in the past seven weeks but her son had yet to be placed in school.
"I don't know what to do," she said. "I have been questioned by representatives for Canon Lee School about my son's mental health problems but I explained to them that my son was just acting out-of sorts.
"I wanted in Nicholas in Canon Lee because they have trained teachers for children with special needs and all of Nicholas's old friends attend the school. To be honest, I feel like taking him to the school gates, dropping him off there, and hoping that the school will let him in - that is how desperate I am.
"He needs to be placed in school. A boy with special needs should not be without education for eight weeks."
A City of York Council spokeswoman said: "We apologise for the delay in finding a permanent placement for Nicholas and are working with education providers in York to create a suitable solution as soon as possible.
"Based on information from his previous local authority, we believe that Nicolas needs will be best met outside mainstream education. We are currently trying to arrange alternative provision."
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Should children with special needs should be placed in mainstream schools?
8:59am Wednesday 26th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Mister Sheen, Right round the house on 9:21am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]Should children with special needs should be placed in mainstream schools?[/quote]
Those with only mild or moderate needs - no reason why not - as long as support for their needs does not have a disproportionate drain on school resources or be disruptive to the education of others.
For those requiring more support - there used to be special schools available - and still are, but under the governments inclusion agenda, there are much fewer places than there used to be.
Should children with special needs should be placed in mainstream schools?
Those with only mild or moderate needs - no reason why not - as long as support for their needs does not have a disproportionate drain on school resources or be disruptive to the education of others.
For those requiring more support - there used to be special schools available - and still are, but under the governments inclusion agenda, there are much fewer places than there used to be.
Posted by: Tonyone on 10:16am Wed 26 Mar 08
If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.
If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.
Posted by: Bemused on 11:01am Wed 26 Mar 08
Seems that everyone is at fault here apart from this youth's dysfunctional family. Almost uniquely I back the council.
Seems that everyone is at fault here apart from this youth's dysfunctional family. Almost uniquely I back the council.
Posted by: marc on 11:09am Wed 26 Mar 08
I see the press are back on form with their usual stories accompanied by the obligatory miserable face picture. Don't people realise that going to the media can do more harm than good.
I see the press are back on form with their usual stories accompanied by the obligatory miserable face picture. Don't people realise that going to the media can do more harm than good.
Posted by: Elizabeth, york on 11:47am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Tonyone[/bold] wrote:
If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.[/quote] The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.
Tonyone wrote:
If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.
The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.
Posted by: Tex on 12:15pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Hear hear Elizabeth.
In a mainstream school this lad would be assessed and would be given a certain amount of hours of dedicated support. That means someone working just with him who could deal with that kind of incident. I'd be interested to hear exactly what 'special needs' this child has though, as the mother certainly seems to have latched onto that particular phrase which is normally a bad sign.
Hear hear Elizabeth.
In a mainstream school this lad would be assessed and would be given a certain amount of hours of dedicated support. That means someone working just with him who could deal with that kind of incident. I'd be interested to hear exactly what 'special needs' this child has though, as the mother certainly seems to have latched onto that particular phrase which is normally a bad sign.
Posted by: avidreader, York on 12:56pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Tonyone[/bold] wrote: If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.[/quote] The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.[/quote] Not all schools have the funding for a special needs teacher. It seems to me the council are doing what they can, they can't just place him in a normal school given his background. If the mother knew he was coming to live with her why didn't she arrange the schooling before now?
Elizabeth wrote:
Tonyone wrote: If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.
The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.
Not all schools have the funding for a special needs teacher. It seems to me the council are doing what they can, they can't just place him in a normal school given his background. If the mother knew he was coming to live with her why didn't she arrange the schooling before now?
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 1:25pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Elizabeth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Tonyone[/bold] wrote: If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.[/quote] The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.[/quote] Elizabeth, Im not sure the mother has LATCHED onto the phrase 'special needs'. She has been told that he cannot be placed in mainstream school because his needs are such. I think some are missing the point here that the lady wants her child in education, but that the Council are dragging their heels.
I disagree with the person who said going to the media does more harm than good. Clearly, in this context I think the mother was correct to place this story in the public arena and thus, put pressure on the Council and Social Services. It does not surprise me that the Council have failed to sort this problem out sooner and I think it is right that they have asked to answer for the delay in the public forum. Liekwise, if the lad is still not placed in a month, the Press should provide a follow-up.
Elizabeth wrote:
Tonyone wrote: If the lad has attempted self harm, I assume trying to jump off a roof is a form of self harm, then I can't see how a normal school could possibly cope other than to rob all the other kids of a teacher and give him one-to-one instruction. I doubt even that wouldn't fulfil his real needs.
The other kids would not need to be robbed of another teacher. Often pupils with special educational needs are given the support of a dedicated learning support assistant.
Elizabeth, Im not sure the mother has LATCHED onto the phrase 'special needs'. She has been told that he cannot be placed in mainstream school because his needs are such. I think some are missing the point here that the lady wants her child in education, but that the Council are dragging their heels.
I disagree with the person who said going to the media does more harm than good. Clearly, in this context I think the mother was correct to place this story in the public arena and thus, put pressure on the Council and Social Services. It does not surprise me that the Council have failed to sort this problem out sooner and I think it is right that they have asked to answer for the delay in the public forum. Liekwise, if the lad is still not placed in a month, the Press should provide a follow-up.
Posted by: Ghost in the machine, Trapped in cyber space on 1:37pm Wed 26 Mar 08
ASDA kids strike again!
Posted by: AdmiralN, York Centre on 1:49pm Wed 26 Mar 08
What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this?
Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this?
Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Posted by: Manwithaview, York on 1:49pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Well done evening press this lads story now in the paper recipie for bullying - as you've clearly made him out to be different. Shame on the mother for allowing her child who she knows is vulnerable to be plastered over the local paper.
Well done evening press this lads story now in the paper recipie for bullying - as you've clearly made him out to be different. Shame on the mother for allowing her child who she knows is vulnerable to be plastered over the local paper.
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 1:53pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote:
What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?[/quote] Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
AdmiralN wrote:
What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
Posted by: annt, strensall on 2:07pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Yet another story of parents living apart. Does it not occur to these people that this is a cry for help from the feeling of being insecure. Most problems are down to the fact of kids living in broken homes. Surely the cost to maintain them is enough and they should get their act together and stick it out until kids leave school instead of bleeding benefits dry.
Yet another story of parents living apart. Does it not occur to these people that this is a cry for help from the feeling of being insecure. Most problems are down to the fact of kids living in broken homes. Surely the cost to maintain them is enough and they should get their act together and stick it out until kids leave school instead of bleeding benefits dry.
Posted by: Ghost in the machine, Trapped in cyber space on 2:12pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I know someone, who knows these people personally, but she wont use these comment pages.
Any how the stories I've just heard are well, shall we say interesting.
For those of you that know, visit "the other" place for more info!!!
I know someone, who knows these people personally, but she wont use these comment pages.
Any how the stories I've just heard are well, shall we say interesting.
For those of you that know, visit "the other" place for more info!!!
Posted by: Tex on 2:16pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Mrparrot, it was me who suggested the mother had latched onto that phrase, not Elizabeth. In her interview she mentions that phrase several times without ever being more specific. I think there's something else going on. Like others on here I'd be interested to know exactly what these special needs are. I work in schools with this kind of child and the story doesn't quite add up. Every school has a special needs coordinator, every school can and does provide assessments for an official statement, and if a statement is given they get a funded member of staff for that child. Does the lad have such a statement?
Mrparrot, it was me who suggested the mother had latched onto that phrase, not Elizabeth. In her interview she mentions that phrase several times without ever being more specific. I think there's something else going on. Like others on here I'd be interested to know exactly what these special needs are. I work in schools with this kind of child and the story doesn't quite add up. Every school has a special needs coordinator, every school can and does provide assessments for an official statement, and if a statement is given they get a funded member of staff for that child. Does the lad have such a statement?
Posted by: Stalker, York on 2:18pm Wed 26 Mar 08
What ever happened to special needs classes in schools....I went to Fulford and although some 15 years ago I'm sure that classes such as these still exist?? I think the special needs teacher was called Mrs Nash...she must have had the patience of a saint. Some of the kids in her class were simple troubled kids and others had real learning problems but they always had a place for them. Whilst he is not in school, do you think the family have rallied round and knocked up some sort of programme of schooling for him or do you think he has broken his playstation from over use?
What ever happened to special needs classes in schools....I went to Fulford and although some 15 years ago I'm sure that classes such as these still exist?? I think the special needs teacher was called Mrs Nash...she must have had the patience of a saint. Some of the kids in her class were simple troubled kids and others had real learning problems but they always had a place for them. Whilst he is not in school, do you think the family have rallied round and knocked up some sort of programme of schooling for him or do you think he has broken his playstation from over use?
Posted by: Stalker, york on 2:22pm Wed 26 Mar 08
What is this "other" place you speak of?
What is this "other" place you speak of?
Posted by: Elizabeth, york on 2:25pm Wed 26 Mar 08
"Elizabeth, Im not sure the mother has LATCHED onto the phrase 'special needs'."
I didn't suggest she had latched onto the phrase.
"Elizabeth, Im not sure the mother has LATCHED onto the phrase 'special needs'."
I didn't suggest she had latched onto the phrase.
Posted by: oli4uk, York on 2:42pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I know were the "Other" place is mwoahaha.
As to this story, it says teh school was worried about his mental state, that does not necessarily mean special needs but more that he presented a danger to pupils or teachers of the school.
I know were the "Other" place is mwoahaha.
As to this story, it says teh school was worried about his mental state, that does not necessarily mean special needs but more that he presented a danger to pupils or teachers of the school.
Posted by: gypsy lee, my caravan on 2:46pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Ghost in the machine[/bold] wrote:
ASDA kids strike again![/quote] What does that actually mean?????
Ghost in the machine wrote:
ASDA kids strike again!
What does that actually mean?????
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 2:57pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Tex[/bold] wrote:
Mrparrot, it was me who suggested the mother had latched onto that phrase, not Elizabeth. In her interview she mentions that phrase several times without ever being more specific. I think there's something else going on. Like others on here I'd be interested to know exactly what these special needs are. I work in schools with this kind of child and the story doesn't quite add up. Every school has a special needs coordinator, every school can and does provide assessments for an official statement, and if a statement is given they get a funded member of staff for that child. Does the lad have such a statement? [/quote] Well, to be fair I dont think you do need to know the ins and outs of his assessment. the council have made it clear that they do not think he will be best served in a mainstream school. The main issue here is why it has taken so long to get the lad the education he needs.
Tex wrote:
Mrparrot, it was me who suggested the mother had latched onto that phrase, not Elizabeth. In her interview she mentions that phrase several times without ever being more specific. I think there's something else going on. Like others on here I'd be interested to know exactly what these special needs are. I work in schools with this kind of child and the story doesn't quite add up. Every school has a special needs coordinator, every school can and does provide assessments for an official statement, and if a statement is given they get a funded member of staff for that child. Does the lad have such a statement?
Well, to be fair I dont think you do need to know the ins and outs of his assessment. the council have made it clear that they do not think he will be best served in a mainstream school. The main issue here is why it has taken so long to get the lad the education he needs.
Posted by: Ghost in the machine, Trapped in cyber space on 3:00pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]gypsy lee[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Ghost in the machine[/bold] wrote: ASDA kids strike again![/quote] What does that actually mean?????[/quote] Its a comedy name we gave to ADHA or whatever it is.
We liken the naughty behavour displayed by said children to the chavs that run riot in ASDA.
ASDA mildly resembles ADHA - hence, ASDA kids!
gypsy lee wrote:
Ghost in the machine wrote: ASDA kids strike again!
What does that actually mean?????
Its a comedy name we gave to ADHA or whatever it is.
We liken the naughty behavour displayed by said children to the chavs that run riot in ASDA.
ASDA mildly resembles ADHA - hence, ASDA kids!
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 3:06pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I'm surprised nobody has commented about the harshly-lit, blurry photograph of the two of them.
I'm surprised nobody has commented about the harshly-lit, blurry photograph of the two of them.
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 3:06pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?[/quote] Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.[/quote] Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education.
Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.
exYorkist wrote:
AdmiralN wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education.
Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 3:08pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?[/quote] Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.[/quote] Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.[/quote] I stand by my statement; I am glad the child is not being mainstreamed, I would not want him anywhere near any child of mine. I remember how distracting and disruptive children were like that in my day and schools need to pull their fingers out and put kids like that where they belong: in alternative education.
MrParrot wrote:
exYorkist wrote: AdmiralN wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.
I stand by my statement; I am glad the child is not being mainstreamed, I would not want him anywhere near any child of mine. I remember how distracting and disruptive children were like that in my day and schools need to pull their fingers out and put kids like that where they belong: in alternative education.
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 3:12pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?
Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?
Posted by: AdmiralN, York Centre on 3:16pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?[/quote] Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.[/quote] Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.[/quote] Are you kidding, My primary School used to have a bell tower, The big joke of mine was to climb to the top shout a lot and then fly my trousers from the weather vain on top. This was never classed as a suicide attempt it was treated exactly for what it was, me being a plonker, this resulted more often than not with me getting a good shouting at and being forced to stand outside the headmasters office (usually just in my kegs)! He isnt the first kid to climb onto the school roof, though he maybe the only one whos parent yells that he is suicidal and needs help! the feeling i get (and i may be wrong) is that the kid is difficult to control due to shoddy parenting and then said shoddy parents claim special needs or whatever to justify there own pi$$ poor effort at raising a child!
MrParrot wrote:
exYorkist wrote: AdmiralN wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.
Are you kidding, My primary School used to have a bell tower, The big joke of mine was to climb to the top shout a lot and then fly my trousers from the weather vain on top. This was never classed as a suicide attempt it was treated exactly for what it was, me being a plonker, this resulted more often than not with me getting a good shouting at and being forced to stand outside the headmasters office (usually just in my kegs)! He isnt the first kid to climb onto the school roof, though he maybe the only one whos parent yells that he is suicidal and needs help! the feeling i get (and i may be wrong) is that the kid is difficult to control due to shoddy parenting and then said shoddy parents claim special needs or whatever to justify there own pi$$ poor effort at raising a child!
Posted by: AdmiralN, York Centre on 3:19pm Wed 26 Mar 08
How can an 11 year even truly understand what suicide actually is?
How can an 11 year even truly understand what suicide actually is?
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 3:26pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]AdmiralN[/bold] wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?[/quote] Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.[/quote] Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.[/quote] Are you kidding, My primary School used to have a bell tower, The big joke of mine was to climb to the top shout a lot and then fly my trousers from the weather vain on top. This was never classed as a suicide attempt it was treated exactly for what it was, me being a plonker, this resulted more often than not with me getting a good shouting at and being forced to stand outside the headmasters office (usually just in my kegs)! He isnt the first kid to climb onto the school roof, though he maybe the only one whos parent yells that he is suicidal and needs help! the feeling i get (and i may be wrong) is that the kid is difficult to control due to shoddy parenting and then said shoddy parents claim special needs or whatever to justify there own pi$$ poor effort at raising a child![/quote] What are you taling about?! You mention a "feeling" you have that the lad might by poorly behaved. You then also assume that the mother is on some sort of scam. She wanted the lad in Cannon Lee! And now after they have said he has needs that require addressing outside of mainstream school that she simply wants them to go ahead and sort it. Instead of commenting on the main issue at hand you seem eager to make unsubstantiated and innacurate assumptions about the child and mother. Unbelievable.
AdmiralN wrote:
MrParrot wrote: exYorkist wrote: AdmiralN wrote: What are his special needs? has an assessment been carried out on him to determine this? Or is it just a case of a badly behaved unruly childs behaviour being blamed on 'special needs'?
Probably. I love how she described his attempt to jump off the roof of his old school as being "out of sorts". Parents these days are BLIND to their childrens' behaviour. I'm glad they don't want to mainstream the kid; I'd hate for him to end up in the same class as my kids...if I had any.
Are you two kidding? It seems you are attempting to demonise this child and his mother due to his suicide attempt. You are making assumptions on his behaviour and somehow trying to make a distinction between behaviour and needs. Very strange. He's a child who has been deemed not suitable for mainstream education and the council are looking to place him in a school that will best address his needs and yes, behaviour. The article is about the length of time it is taking to get the lad into education. Yorkist - she didnt say "out of sorts", she said "out of control", which she is cleary entitled to conlude! What was it about that particular phrase that you "loved" so much. Please do not make assumptions about the child or the mother, its insulting to them and to others having to hear your discriminative language.
Are you kidding, My primary School used to have a bell tower, The big joke of mine was to climb to the top shout a lot and then fly my trousers from the weather vain on top. This was never classed as a suicide attempt it was treated exactly for what it was, me being a plonker, this resulted more often than not with me getting a good shouting at and being forced to stand outside the headmasters office (usually just in my kegs)! He isnt the first kid to climb onto the school roof, though he maybe the only one whos parent yells that he is suicidal and needs help! the feeling i get (and i may be wrong) is that the kid is difficult to control due to shoddy parenting and then said shoddy parents claim special needs or whatever to justify there own pi$$ poor effort at raising a child!
What are you taling about?! You mention a "feeling" you have that the lad might by poorly behaved. You then also assume that the mother is on some sort of scam. She wanted the lad in Cannon Lee! And now after they have said he has needs that require addressing outside of mainstream school that she simply wants them to go ahead and sort it. Instead of commenting on the main issue at hand you seem eager to make unsubstantiated and innacurate assumptions about the child and mother. Unbelievable.
Posted by: AdmiralN, York Centre on 3:36pm Wed 26 Mar 08
'"I don't know what to do," she said. "I have been questioned by representatives for Canon Lee School about my son's mental health problems but I explained to them that my son was just acting out-of sorts.
"I wanted in Nicholas in Canon Lee because they have trained teachers for children with special needs and all of Nicholas's old friends attend the school. To be honest, I feel like taking him to the school gates, dropping him off there, and hoping that the school will let him in - that is how desperate I am.'
It would appear that she knows sweet FA about special needs and wants him to go to school there more out of convenience than necessity!
'"I don't know what to do," she said. "I have been questioned by representatives for Canon Lee School about my son's mental health problems but I explained to them that my son was just acting out-of sorts.
"I wanted in Nicholas in Canon Lee because they have trained teachers for children with special needs and all of Nicholas's old friends attend the school. To be honest, I feel like taking him to the school gates, dropping him off there, and hoping that the school will let him in - that is how desperate I am.'
It would appear that she knows sweet FA about special needs and wants him to go to school there more out of convenience than necessity!
Posted by: Plaggy Terry, Classic Cnuts on 3:38pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Daddy's flown to live near the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?
Daddy, what'd'ja leave behind for me?!?
All in all it was just a brick in the wall.
All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.
Daddy's flown to live near the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?
Daddy, what'd'ja leave behind for me?!?
All in all it was just a brick in the wall.
All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.
Posted by: Plaggy Terry, Classic Cnuts on 3:39pm Wed 26 Mar 08
We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave theat kid alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave that kid alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave theat kid alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave that kid alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
Posted by: cloe, at home on 3:41pm Wed 26 Mar 08
if he went to school at cannon lee he would have more problem than ever, its a c**p school with kids having sex in toilets, drugs/ and bullys.
if he went to school at cannon lee he would have more problem than ever, its a c**p school with kids having sex in toilets, drugs/ and bullys.
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 4:29pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote:
Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?[/quote] Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up.
As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.
MrParrot wrote:
Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?
Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up.
As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.
Posted by: TwelvestringTrev, York on 4:46pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bemused[/bold] wrote:
Seems that everyone is at fault here apart from this youth's dysfunctional family. Almost uniquely I back the council. [/quote] [quote]COUNCIL chiefs have apologised after failing to place a special needs boy in school.[/quote]
How do you find the child's family 'dysfunctional' Mr Bemused?
Also, what do you mean by 'You back the Council'?
Stop spreading poison!
This is a Special Needs Child and not just a wayward 'youth'.
Only the parents and carers of Special Needs Children know how difficult it is to acquire the support they need and at the end of the day problems like this occur through inadequate funding from the Education Authorities which in turn are run by the Council.
Bemused wrote:
Seems that everyone is at fault here apart from this youth's dysfunctional family. Almost uniquely I back the council.
COUNCIL chiefs have apologised after failing to place a special needs boy in school.
How do you find the child's family 'dysfunctional' Mr Bemused?
Also, what do you mean by 'You back the Council'?
Stop spreading poison!
This is a Special Needs Child and not just a wayward 'youth'.
Only the parents and carers of Special Needs Children know how difficult it is to acquire the support they need and at the end of the day problems like this occur through inadequate funding from the Education Authorities which in turn are run by the Council.
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 5:04pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote: Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?[/quote] Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up. As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.[/quote] But you inferred that this mother was blind towards her child's behaviour. She clearly referred to her son's attempt to throw himself of a building as out of control. The point of the article is that she wants her child to be placed in education. Sounds like a good mother to me. She wanted him in Cannon Lee at first, but the Council has assessed him as needing support not available in mainstream school. With that decision made, the mother wants the Council to now find a school that can provide the appropriate support for his needs. Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.
exYorkist wrote:
MrParrot wrote: Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?
Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up. As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.
But you inferred that this mother was blind towards her child's behaviour. She clearly referred to her son's attempt to throw himself of a building as out of control. The point of the article is that she wants her child to be placed in education. Sounds like a good mother to me. She wanted him in Cannon Lee at first, but the Council has assessed him as needing support not available in mainstream school. With that decision made, the mother wants the Council to now find a school that can provide the appropriate support for his needs. Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.
Posted by: annonymous york, York on 5:58pm Wed 26 Mar 08
cloe at home is talking cr*p!!! How much do you know when ya cant even spell the name of the school!!! Where did you get your rubbish info from - load of rubbish!
cloe at home is talking cr*p!!! How much do you know when ya cant even spell the name of the school!!! Where did you get your rubbish info from - load of rubbish!
Posted by: TwelvestringTrev, York on 7:11pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.[/quote]
[bold]Well said![/bold]
Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.
Well said! Posted by: the exile, York on 7:39pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Doesn't the article say he went to Pinder school in Scarborough? A mainstream school, just like Canon lee? I suspect this has a lot to do with Canon lee not wanting him there and suggesting he's somebody else's problem. They've got money in their budget to deal with special needs....what are they doing with it? There over 20,000 kids who go to mainstream school in this city with less than 200 in special schools.It's most likely that's where he should be in mainstream school but I bet the truth is these schools don't want them...inclusion my backside!
Doesn't the article say he went to Pinder school in Scarborough? A mainstream school, just like Canon lee? I suspect this has a lot to do with Canon lee not wanting him there and suggesting he's somebody else's problem. They've got money in their budget to deal with special needs....what are they doing with it? There over 20,000 kids who go to mainstream school in this city with less than 200 in special schools.It's most likely that's where he should be in mainstream school but I bet the truth is these schools don't want them...inclusion my backside!
Posted by: Tex on 10:18pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Mrparrot I admire your stance and agree to a large extent. His jump from the roof shouldn't be belittled and nor should we assume that the mother is using 'special needs' as an excuse. The lad clearly has some kind of issues that need to be addressed, more complex than mere naughtiness.
However, we should be aware that parents sometimes fail to understand the problem and do occasionally resort to tag lines to get things done, when no formal assessment has been made.
Perhaps the precise special needs this child has isn't my business, arguably none of this is anyone's business, but the knowledge would help me and others here make sense of a bizarre situation. After-all, it's pretty rare that genuinely clued-up parents will just use the term 'special needs' without being a little more specific. I happen to feel that the current system of statementing is generally effective and cannot see why this hasn't occurred. Special needs should have been picked up in his Scarborough school and a statement provided accordingly, so any York school with space should take up the baton. We have a duty to be inclusive, and in the school's I've worked in within York that is happening (contrary to exile's view). There simply isn't enough information in this article to say why it hasn't happened here and you're making generous assumptions that automatically side with the parent.
Mrparrot I admire your stance and agree to a large extent. His jump from the roof shouldn't be belittled and nor should we assume that the mother is using 'special needs' as an excuse. The lad clearly has some kind of issues that need to be addressed, more complex than mere naughtiness.
However, we should be aware that parents sometimes fail to understand the problem and do occasionally resort to tag lines to get things done, when no formal assessment has been made.
Perhaps the precise special needs this child has isn't my business, arguably none of this is anyone's business, but the knowledge would help me and others here make sense of a bizarre situation. After-all, it's pretty rare that genuinely clued-up parents will just use the term 'special needs' without being a little more specific. I happen to feel that the current system of statementing is generally effective and cannot see why this hasn't occurred. Special needs should have been picked up in his Scarborough school and a statement provided accordingly, so any York school with space should take up the baton. We have a duty to be inclusive, and in the school's I've worked in within York that is happening (contrary to exile's view). There simply isn't enough information in this article to say why it hasn't happened here and you're making generous assumptions that automatically side with the parent.
Posted by: bjc, York on 10:20pm Wed 26 Mar 08
It is every child's right in this country to be educated - and that includes those with behavioural or special educational needs.
The issue here, it appears to me, is one of timing and the lack of planning from all those involved.
This young boy has been out of the system for a few weeks but if you take out half term and the easter break it's not quite as disruptive as it first appears because this term's been incredibly short.
If he is as troubled as he appears in addition to having learning difficulties then I would suggest a mainstream school would be a scary place for him - there will never be enough support because finances will always dictate. No matter how well managed in school there will always be disruption for other pupils when a child with such problems is included.
I'm saddened by some of the previous posts. This is a child after all and it's up to adults to try and carve out a decent path for him.. not blame him and his mother for the situation they find themselves in.
It is every child's right in this country to be educated - and that includes those with behavioural or special educational needs.
The issue here, it appears to me, is one of timing and the lack of planning from all those involved.
This young boy has been out of the system for a few weeks but if you take out half term and the easter break it's not quite as disruptive as it first appears because this term's been incredibly short.
If he is as troubled as he appears in addition to having learning difficulties then I would suggest a mainstream school would be a scary place for him - there will never be enough support because finances will always dictate. No matter how well managed in school there will always be disruption for other pupils when a child with such problems is included.
I'm saddened by some of the previous posts. This is a child after all and it's up to adults to try and carve out a decent path for him.. not blame him and his mother for the situation they find themselves in.
Posted by: MeInYork, york on 12:37am Thu 27 Mar 08
Well done AGAIN York Press for allowing comments on stories that pull individual people to bits....
Well done AGAIN York Press for allowing comments on stories that pull individual people to bits....
Posted by: franky, york on 1:40am Thu 27 Mar 08
Well, if the story had any level of journalistic detail behind it, then maybe the comments wouldn't be needed.
Special needs / learning disabilities is a bit of a different story to mental health / suicide risk... a complex case that is not easily solved.
Yet another parent feels the need to moan to the Press and in the process make life just that little bit harder for themselves and their family member.
[quote]I'm surprised nobody has commented about the harshly-lit, blurry photograph of the two of them.[/quote]
That is surprising, as she seems to look quite attractive and I would have expected a photo of the usual standard rather than the blurry shot.
Well, if the story had any level of journalistic detail behind it, then maybe the comments wouldn't be needed.
Special needs / learning disabilities is a bit of a different story to mental health / suicide risk... a complex case that is not easily solved.
Yet another parent feels the need to moan to the Press and in the process make life just that little bit harder for themselves and their family member.
I'm surprised nobody has commented about the harshly-lit, blurry photograph of the two of them.
That is surprising, as she seems to look quite attractive and I would have expected a photo of the usual standard rather than the blurry shot.
Posted by: MrParrot, york on 12:06pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Tex[/bold] wrote:
Mrparrot I admire your stance and agree to a large extent. His jump from the roof shouldn't be belittled and nor should we assume that the mother is using 'special needs' as an excuse. The lad clearly has some kind of issues that need to be addressed, more complex than mere naughtiness. However, we should be aware that parents sometimes fail to understand the problem and do occasionally resort to tag lines to get things done, when no formal assessment has been made. Perhaps the precise special needs this child has isn't my business, arguably none of this is anyone's business, but the knowledge would help me and others here make sense of a bizarre situation. After-all, it's pretty rare that genuinely clued-up parents will just use the term 'special needs' without being a little more specific. I happen to feel that the current system of statementing is generally effective and cannot see why this hasn't occurred. Special needs should have been picked up in his Scarborough school and a statement provided accordingly, so any York school with space should take up the baton. We have a duty to be inclusive, and in the school's I've worked in within York that is happening (contrary to exile's view). There simply isn't enough information in this article to say why it hasn't happened here and you're making generous assumptions that automatically side with the parent.[/quote] I agree with some of your points. However, where you completely lose me is when you talk about siding with the parent! That assumes there is stance to take against her! Read the article mate, the council have APOLOGISED. They have said sorry for taking so long to get him placed. The mother wants her child in education. Thats it mate. Its the school and council that say he needs special support not offered in mainstream school. All the mother wants is him in education. I give up.
Tex wrote:
Mrparrot I admire your stance and agree to a large extent. His jump from the roof shouldn't be belittled and nor should we assume that the mother is using 'special needs' as an excuse. The lad clearly has some kind of issues that need to be addressed, more complex than mere naughtiness. However, we should be aware that parents sometimes fail to understand the problem and do occasionally resort to tag lines to get things done, when no formal assessment has been made. Perhaps the precise special needs this child has isn't my business, arguably none of this is anyone's business, but the knowledge would help me and others here make sense of a bizarre situation. After-all, it's pretty rare that genuinely clued-up parents will just use the term 'special needs' without being a little more specific. I happen to feel that the current system of statementing is generally effective and cannot see why this hasn't occurred. Special needs should have been picked up in his Scarborough school and a statement provided accordingly, so any York school with space should take up the baton. We have a duty to be inclusive, and in the school's I've worked in within York that is happening (contrary to exile's view). There simply isn't enough information in this article to say why it hasn't happened here and you're making generous assumptions that automatically side with the parent.
I agree with some of your points. However, where you completely lose me is when you talk about siding with the parent! That assumes there is stance to take against her! Read the article mate, the council have APOLOGISED. They have said sorry for taking so long to get him placed. The mother wants her child in education. Thats it mate. Its the school and council that say he needs special support not offered in mainstream school. All the mother wants is him in education. I give up.
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 3:10pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]exYorkist[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]MrParrot[/bold] wrote: Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?[/quote] Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up. As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.[/quote] But you inferred that this mother was blind towards her child's behaviour. She clearly referred to her son's attempt to throw himself of a building as out of control. The point of the article is that she wants her child to be placed in education. Sounds like a good mother to me. She wanted him in Cannon Lee at first, but the Council has assessed him as needing support not available in mainstream school. With that decision made, the mother wants the Council to now find a school that can provide the appropriate support for his needs. Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.[/quote] Nice attempt at twisting my words. You clearly have not thoroughly read anything I've written; you are far too anxious to get your knickers in a twist over something that doesn't concern you anyway. Get a life.
MrParrot wrote:
exYorkist wrote: MrParrot wrote: Do you still stand by your statement that you loved the way she described her son when he tried to kill himself? Also, do you still stand by the inference you made to the mother being BLIND to their children's behaviour, for which there is absolutely no evidence. And what is your opinion on the main point of the story, that the child has still not been placed into APPROPRIATE education?
Yes, I do. The evidence is everywhere that parents are blind to their childrens' behaviour. Wake up. As for him not being in "appropriate" education it seems part of that is due to the fact that she and the city seem to disagree on what "appropriate" is.
But you inferred that this mother was blind towards her child's behaviour. She clearly referred to her son's attempt to throw himself of a building as out of control. The point of the article is that she wants her child to be placed in education. Sounds like a good mother to me. She wanted him in Cannon Lee at first, but the Council has assessed him as needing support not available in mainstream school. With that decision made, the mother wants the Council to now find a school that can provide the appropriate support for his needs. Very odd how some poeple on here can totally schew a story like this to try and demonise a child and mother, without any evidence at all, without any hint of a reason to do so. Pure ignorance.
Nice attempt at twisting my words. You clearly have not thoroughly read anything I've written; you are far too anxious to get your knickers in a twist over something that doesn't concern you anyway. Get a life.
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