So what did the CCTV camera say to the litter lout?

10:17am Thursday 5th April 2007

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Do we really want talking CCTV cameras that can shout at us for dropping litter as we walk down the street? STEPHEN LEWIS reports.

IT Sounds like something out of one of those sci-fi movies. Robocop, say.

You are walking along the street when you drop the wrapper from a Mars Bar on to the pavement. A camera mounted high up on a wall swivels and fixes on you.

"You in the hoodie! Freeze! Pick up that litter and put it in a bin!" a voice barks from a speaker.

Science fiction? No such thing. It could soon become a reality in a city centre near you.

Home Secretary John Reid has set aside nearly £500,000 to fund the expansion of a network of "talking" CCTV cameras across the UK.

They have been piloted in Middlesbrough, where council bosses claim spectacular successes in the fight against vandalism, litter, antisocial behaviour and petty crime.

Council workers in a control centre monitor pictures from a network of eight talking cameras across the town centre, and when they see someone doing something wrong, can press a button to bark commands at them.

The talking (or should that be shouting?) cameras are to introduced in 20 more towns and cities across the country.

York is not one of them - at least, not yet. But council leader Steve Galloway will be watching the trials with interest.

Inevitably, the scheme has already been criticised by opponents as "Big Brother gone mad".

Yes, he can see how the cameras might deter some criminals, says John Clark, Ryedale Liberal councillor and civil rights campaigner. "But I think the price we pay could be vastly greater than the value we get. That price would be the acceptance that the state gets to have total control of what everybody gets to do all the time."

Rubbish, insists Mr Reid.

"This is a hugely popular scheme in Middlesbrough and the vast majority of the people there are right behind it," he said.

"It helps counter litter, drunk or disorderly behaviour, gangs congregating. They are the sorts of things that make people's lives a misery. Anything that tackles that is better."

Britain isn't becoming a police society', he insisted. "It's a society where the vast majority of law-abiding citizens are doing their utmost to respect each other.

"There is always a minority and this is a way of trying to embarrass them, short of taking people to court, short of getting the police involved, to make sure it is a better local society."

So how would the talking cameras go down here if they were ever to be introduced locally? We asked around to find out...

Strensall

BRING em on, says butcher Dave Taylor, whose shop is in Barley Rise, which has been plagued by vandals.

The Barley Rise shops don't even have ordinary speechless CCTV cameras yet, Dave admits. But talking cameras would be just the thing to deter troublemakers. "It would be tremendous. It would put the fear of God into them!"

And he doesn't think talking cameras which shouted at you for misbehaving were just a little sinister?

Not at all, he said. Some youngsters would probably just turn around and give the cameras a V-sign.

"But I think they would be absolutely marvellous. Get some down Barley Rise, quick."

Haxby

IT REALLY is Big Brother gone mad, says Eddie Benson, of the Haxby and Wigginton Youth and Community Association.

"It is taking away the privacy of the individual," Eddie said. "It smacks of Big Brother and the Russian state."

Yes, Eddie says, there is antisocial behaviour, but there must be better ways of dealing with it than shouting cameras.

Putting money into projects that worked with young people in the community might be a good start, he said.

Quite apart from his mistrust of what the cameras represent, he thinks they might even provoke more problems.

"If young people were being shouted at by a machine, I can see them reacting to that and trying to make the situation worse."

Chapelfields

IS THIS an April Fool? asked a startled Rosie Wall, chair of the Chapelfields Residents' Association.

Assured that it wasn't, she paused for thought. "I don't know, really. But I suppose, especially if they were in places like car parks where cars are being taken, they might work.

"A lot of people say oh, they have these CCTV cameras but they don't work, they aren't switched on'.

"This would certainly shock them into knowing they were switched on. It would be best, really, if they were mobile, so they could put them in different places where there were crime hotspots."

An she doesn't think they are a bit Big Brother-ish?

"It wouldn't bother me, because I wouldn't be doing anything wrong. I would find it quite amusing."

Clifton

THEY might work in the city centre, perhaps, said Phyllis McEwan, chairman of the Clifton Residents' Association.

"If they heard a voice from nowhere telling them to stop, it would make them think," she said.

She is not sure, however, whether it would have helped with the epidemic of tyre-slashing in Clifton. A talking camera could be sited at the junction of Kingsway North and Crichton Avenue, an occasional trouble-spot, or at the shops in Burton Stone Lane.

"Anything which could help to stop vandalism and everything has got to be positive," said Phyllis.

Tang Hall

"I THINK it sounds quite amusing," said Tom Gibson, chairman of the Tang Hall Residents' Association. "I don't know how effective it would be, though."

Tom can imagine some Monty Pythonesque commands being shouted at wrong-doers. And he can also see control-room operators using the speakers to chat to friends they see passing on the street - "Hi, Bill, how are you?", that sort of thing.

"But I think anything is worth experimenting with that could cut crime and vandalism."

The talking cameras should not be used as a substitute for more bobbies on the beat, however, which was what most people wanted, added Tom.

And getting more decent neighbourhood watch programmes up and running would do a lot more to deter crime than a few shouting cameras.

How the cameras work in Middlesbrough

MIDDLESBROUGH has had eight of the talking cameras installed in the town centre for six months, and is about to get ten more, says the town's security manager, Jack Bonner.

There are no statistics available yet to show what impact the new cameras have had. But there is plenty of visual evidence from the cameras themselves to prove their worth, Mr Bonner says.

CCTV control operators who spot someone dropping litter will speak to them immediately over the speakers, Mr Bonner says. "They will say something like The gentleman in the red shirt, you have been witnessed dropping litter. Kindly pick it up and put it in the bin provided'."

In 95 per cent of cases in which litter-bugs were told to do this by a control room operator, they complied, says Mr Bonner. "And if they do, we say thank you."

The cameras work with vandals, too, he insisted. "We had a nice example recently. There were three youths who decided to get up on the roof of Pizza Hut and demolish the neon sign.

"Not only did they stop, but they put it back together again before they legged it."

In fact, in 85 per cent of cases where control room operators spoke to somebody who was committing vandalism or behaving in a disorderly or violent way, they stopped what they were doing, Mr Bonner said.

The political reaction in York

Steve Galloway, Liberal Democrat city council leader
"We are looking to extend CCTV using Wi-Fi technology. I will not pretend that we have any agenda at the moment for talking cameras. I'm a little sceptical and it does also seem a little Big Brother-ish. But we will watch the trials with interest, and if York residents feel that they ought to be used in certain areas, we will consult with them."

Dave Merrett, leader of the opposition Labour group
"I think there may be a use for them in the right place and the right time. But let's get the basics right first. The CCTV system that we have got is not what it should be. We don't have a truly comprehensive system covering all the areas of the city centre that might need it."

Andy D'Agorne, leader of the Greens
"The facility may seem a good idea but it should not be seen as a substitute for real people who can enforce the laws, nor for efforts to instil social behaviour via the home and through our schools.

"I think their novelty would wear off after a while and then (as with burglar alarms) they would just became an intrusion and noise nuisance that is ignored."

John Galvin, Conservative candidate
"When I heard about it, I fell about laughing. On the one hand, there will be people saying you have to use every weapon in your armoury. On the other hand, are you going to be walking along the street and this booming voice will say from nowhere Hey! You in the pink shirt!' That really is a nightmare scenario. If we had more police on the street, there would be no need for people to shout down microphones."

Where the cameras are coming

The 20 towns, cities and London boroughs which have received grants for talking CCTV cameras are: Southwark; Barking and Dagenham; Reading; Thanet; Harlow; Norwich; Ipswich; Plymouth; Gloucester; Derby; Northampton; Mansfield; Nottingham; Coventry; Sandwell; Wirral; Blackpool; Salford; South Tyneside and Darlington.

Bridlington on the East Yorkshire coast has also been looking at setting up its own six month trial of "voice assisted" CCTV cameras, with the help of East Riding council and Humberside Police.