‘Poverty is overused word’ says York Conservative leader Ian Gillies

Ian Gillies

Ian Gillies

Published in Stamp Out Poverty news York Press: Photograph of the Author by

YORK’S Conservative leader has said he believes “poverty is an overused word” in the wake of controversial comments by a member of his party about food banks.

Chris Steward, a Conservative councillor, sparked an angry row after stating there is no absolute poverty in Britain and food banks were “an insult” to starving people around the world. He said donating to them allowed recipients to spend more money on alcohol and cigarettes.

In response to the comments, Tory leader Ian Gillies said he had not yet spoken to Coun Steward but questioned how many people were in poverty, stating that while food banks “can only be a good thing” for those in need, there are some people who claim to be in need if they do not have satellite television.

Coun Gillies said: “Poverty is an overused word. Some people say they are in poverty if they can’t afford Sky television.

“But that does not detract from the people we need to help. There are obviously people in need and we should be doing everything we can to help those people.

“I would say the word poverty is used too quickly. There are people in need of help and some less fortunate than others.

“There are people who say they are in poverty but really don’t know the meaning of the word poverty.”

Coun Steward’s comments were condemned by The Trussell Trust, which runs 275 food banks nationwide, which said he was “poorly informed”.

A spokesperson for the York-based Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF) said: “York may be a relatively well-off city, but that only masks the very real hardship experienced by many right on our doorstep.

“Food parcels were once the preserve of wartime Britain. But such is the struggle to meet the cost of essentials, the growth of food banks is tantamount to the reality facing families today.

“Food costs for families with children have increased by about 20 per cent since 2008 and the gap between the incomes and needs of worst-off households is widening.

“Six million people in working households are now in poverty – which is testament to the prevalence of hardship in the UK. The fact is millions of ordinary people are finding it ever harder to make end meets and put food on the table.

“We need policies that help ease the real struggles faced by families, not squabbles or denial as to whether that struggle exists.”

Comments (46)

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9:46am Fri 4 Jan 13

NoNewsIsGoodNews says...

Here we go again.
Here we go again. NoNewsIsGoodNews
  • Score: 0

9:54am Fri 4 Jan 13

Stan2Attention says...

Hole. Digging. Stop.
Hole. Digging. Stop. Stan2Attention
  • Score: 0

10:06am Fri 4 Jan 13

Peterwalker says...

Stick to the dogma and ignore the facts. A Tory through and through!
Stick to the dogma and ignore the facts. A Tory through and through! Peterwalker
  • Score: 0

10:13am Fri 4 Jan 13

pedalling paul says...

Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up.

I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.
Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up. I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views. pedalling paul
  • Score: 0

10:29am Fri 4 Jan 13

Keeet Lemon says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up.

I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.
You like a bit of stirring yourself don't you
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up. I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.[/p][/quote]You like a bit of stirring yourself don't you Keeet Lemon
  • Score: 0

10:32am Fri 4 Jan 13

Keeet Lemon says...

Steward should have gone to the food bank in the first place, bit late now, nothing more than damage limitation!
Steward should have gone to the food bank in the first place, bit late now, nothing more than damage limitation! Keeet Lemon
  • Score: 0

10:35am Fri 4 Jan 13

asd says...

What a shower of s*** these lot are. Everything has gone up except wages. The gap between the have's and have nots is gigantic. The vunrable are getting the brunt of it as usual, I am waiting for the Norman tebbit quote from someone 'Get on your bike and find work' unfortuantly I know a autistic person who has had to move as they cant afford to live in York. You may think wahts the problem, well for some-one on the spectrum this can cause trauma, depression,OCD and other contitions most people would not understand.So well done you pathetic scummy goverment for sacrificing the vunrable and poor, nice easy targets as theyt cant afford laywers or clever accountants like you rich buddy buddy mates that donate to your party's. Its a sad state of affairs in this country that food banks are now starting to be common place.
What a shower of s*** these lot are. Everything has gone up except wages. The gap between the have's and have nots is gigantic. The vunrable are getting the brunt of it as usual, I am waiting for the Norman tebbit quote from someone 'Get on your bike and find work' unfortuantly I know a autistic person who has had to move as they cant afford to live in York. You may think wahts the problem, well for some-one on the spectrum this can cause trauma, depression,OCD and other contitions most people would not understand.So well done you pathetic scummy goverment for sacrificing the vunrable and poor, nice easy targets as theyt cant afford laywers or clever accountants like you rich buddy buddy mates that donate to your party's. Its a sad state of affairs in this country that food banks are now starting to be common place. asd
  • Score: 0

10:41am Fri 4 Jan 13

perplexed says...

Coun Gillies said: “Poverty is an overused word. Some people say they are in poverty if they can’t afford Sky television.

Who are these 'some people '?
Where is his evidence? Such shameful and divisive stereotyping is sadly indicative of the 'poverty' we have come to expect in the quality of our politicians today! Both Coun Gillies and Coun Steward's comments are an embarrassment to the good people of York!
Coun Gillies said: “Poverty is an overused word. Some people say they are in poverty if they can’t afford Sky television. Who are these 'some people '? Where is his evidence? Such shameful and divisive stereotyping is sadly indicative of the 'poverty' we have come to expect in the quality of our politicians today! Both Coun Gillies and Coun Steward's comments are an embarrassment to the good people of York! perplexed
  • Score: 0

10:42am Fri 4 Jan 13

Zetkin says...

These well-fed Tories just can't stop themselves can they?

If Steward thinks foodbanks are an insult to malnourished people, doesn't Gillies see that his flip comment about satellite TV is an insult to people in York and beyond who DO endure poverty, and suffer its effects on a daily basis?

The word poverty is well-used these days because so many people are affected by it. If that irriates you, Coun Gillies, why don't you and your government do something to alleviate it?
These well-fed Tories just can't stop themselves can they? If Steward thinks foodbanks are an insult to malnourished people, doesn't Gillies see that his flip comment about satellite TV is an insult to people in York and beyond who DO endure poverty, and suffer its effects on a daily basis? The word poverty is well-used these days because so many people are affected by it. If that irriates you, Coun Gillies, why don't you and your government do something to alleviate it? Zetkin
  • Score: 0

10:42am Fri 4 Jan 13

pedalling paul says...

Keeet Lemon wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up.

I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.
You like a bit of stirring yourself don't you
Who.....moi.....??
[quote][p][bold]Keeet Lemon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up. I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.[/p][/quote]You like a bit of stirring yourself don't you[/p][/quote]Who.....moi.....?? pedalling paul
  • Score: 0

10:44am Fri 4 Jan 13

PinzaC55 says...

The thing you have to love about the Tories is they always conform to their stereotype.
The thing you have to love about the Tories is they always conform to their stereotype. PinzaC55
  • Score: 0

10:53am Fri 4 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

Coun Steward’s comments were condemned by The Trussell Trust, which runs 275 food banks nationwide,

...and almost unanimously here and on social media by all manner of commentators.


Mr Gillies has had 24 hours to come up with a tempered version.
As usual with politicians he ducks out of saying explicitly whether he backs Coun Steward's stance or condemns it.

Does he have full party support or not?
[quote] Coun Steward’s comments were condemned by The Trussell Trust, which runs 275 food banks nationwide, [/quote] ...and almost unanimously here and on social media by all manner of commentators. Mr Gillies has had 24 hours to come up with a tempered version. As usual with politicians he ducks out of saying explicitly whether he backs Coun Steward's stance or condemns it. Does he have full party support or not? Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

11:06am Fri 4 Jan 13

nr59 says...

Yes he has full party support.......unoffi
cially of course.
Yes he has full party support.......unoffi cially of course. nr59
  • Score: 0

11:18am Fri 4 Jan 13

goodfellow says...

The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle.

Oxfam
care to comment Cllr Gillies ?
The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle. Oxfam care to comment Cllr Gillies ? goodfellow
  • Score: 0

11:24am Fri 4 Jan 13

outofspace says...

This is what is known as "defending the indefensible".

Guys, you are having your Marie Antoinette moment. You might like to reflect on what happened next.
This is what is known as "defending the indefensible". Guys, you are having your Marie Antoinette moment. You might like to reflect on what happened next. outofspace
  • Score: 0

11:41am Fri 4 Jan 13

m dee says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up.

I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.
No he has not he has backed him up and added further insulting comments,plus with you defending his comments they are doomed,should Cllr. Steward offer some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank this would surely make things worse considering his opinion which presumably still stands.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Ian has sensibly tried to steer a middle course through the controversy that his junior colleague has stirred up. I read elsewhere that Cllr. Steward is now to undertake some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank, which may temper his initially reported views.[/p][/quote]No he has not he has backed him up and added further insulting comments,plus with you defending his comments they are doomed,should Cllr. Steward offer some voluntary involvement at the Food Bank this would surely make things worse considering his opinion which presumably still stands. m dee
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Fri 4 Jan 13

roskoboskovic says...

these people usually complain that they ve been misquoted but these two are so out of touch that they actually believe what they ve said.we are now left,as york residents with three major parties that noone likes and noone wants to elect and therefore we jump from one set of nohopers to the other.they say that people get the politicians they deserve but i can t believe that we really deserve any of these.
these people usually complain that they ve been misquoted but these two are so out of touch that they actually believe what they ve said.we are now left,as york residents with three major parties that noone likes and noone wants to elect and therefore we jump from one set of nohopers to the other.they say that people get the politicians they deserve but i can t believe that we really deserve any of these. roskoboskovic
  • Score: 0

12:12pm Fri 4 Jan 13

eeoodares says...

asd wrote:
What a shower of s*** these lot are. Everything has gone up except wages. The gap between the have's and have nots is gigantic. The vunrable are getting the brunt of it as usual, I am waiting for the Norman tebbit quote from someone 'Get on your bike and find work' unfortuantly I know a autistic person who has had to move as they cant afford to live in York. You may think wahts the problem, well for some-one on the spectrum this can cause trauma, depression,OCD and other contitions most people would not understand.So well done you pathetic scummy goverment for sacrificing the vunrable and poor, nice easy targets as theyt cant afford laywers or clever accountants like you rich buddy buddy mates that donate to your party's. Its a sad state of affairs in this country that food banks are now starting to be common place.
Norman Tebbit never said that, interesting that you choose to quote it.

Food prices in this country are staggeringly low. It is amazing how cheap the food is. The US is the only place I have been where food appears to be cheaper but they use steroids etc.

This conversation is about poverty, if you have a 40inch+ tv, go to the pub, smoke but can not afford your electricity bill, you are not in poverty!
[quote][p][bold]asd[/bold] wrote: What a shower of s*** these lot are. Everything has gone up except wages. The gap between the have's and have nots is gigantic. The vunrable are getting the brunt of it as usual, I am waiting for the Norman tebbit quote from someone 'Get on your bike and find work' unfortuantly I know a autistic person who has had to move as they cant afford to live in York. You may think wahts the problem, well for some-one on the spectrum this can cause trauma, depression,OCD and other contitions most people would not understand.So well done you pathetic scummy goverment for sacrificing the vunrable and poor, nice easy targets as theyt cant afford laywers or clever accountants like you rich buddy buddy mates that donate to your party's. Its a sad state of affairs in this country that food banks are now starting to be common place.[/p][/quote]Norman Tebbit never said that, interesting that you choose to quote it. Food prices in this country are staggeringly low. It is amazing how cheap the food is. The US is the only place I have been where food appears to be cheaper but they use steroids etc. This conversation is about poverty, if you have a 40inch+ tv, go to the pub, smoke but can not afford your electricity bill, you are not in poverty! eeoodares
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Fri 4 Jan 13

eeoodares says...

goodfellow wrote:
The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle.

Oxfam
care to comment Cllr Gillies ?
The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken?

It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%????
[quote][p][bold]goodfellow[/bold] wrote: The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle. Oxfam care to comment Cllr Gillies ?[/p][/quote]The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken? It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%???? eeoodares
  • Score: 0

12:58pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

eeoodares wrote:
goodfellow wrote:
The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle.

Oxfam
care to comment Cllr Gillies ?
The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken?

It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%????
Where is this statistic from?
I think the clue is in the word 'Oxfam'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~
This oaf Gillies is merely pouring tory oil onto turbulent waters, in the forlorn hope of creating calm; but I think the oil is quite volatile, and might flare up in his face.
Interestingly (but inevitably), he follows caMoron's line that food banks are a sign of a healthy approach to the problems caused by his government in bringing abject poverty to millions of citizens.
Of course, they are no such thing; they are more of a savage indictment of how loathsome this government has become in accepting poverty as a norm for everybody but themselves, and failing miserably to do anything about it.
There should be no need for these soup kitchens in 2012 in Britain.
[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]goodfellow[/bold] wrote: The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle. Oxfam care to comment Cllr Gillies ?[/p][/quote]The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken? It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%????[/p][/quote]Where is this statistic from? I think the clue is in the word 'Oxfam'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ This oaf Gillies is merely pouring tory oil onto turbulent waters, in the forlorn hope of creating calm; but I think the oil is quite volatile, and might flare up in his face. Interestingly (but inevitably), he follows caMoron's line that food banks are a sign of a healthy approach to the problems caused by his government in bringing abject poverty to millions of citizens. Of course, they are no such thing; they are more of a savage indictment of how loathsome this government has become in accepting poverty as a norm for everybody but themselves, and failing miserably to do anything about it. There should be no need for these soup kitchens in 2012 in Britain. Trespar Zagenstuz
  • Score: 0

1:13pm Fri 4 Jan 13

YSTClinguist says...

Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down.

And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this:

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/8350563/
Westminster-to-outla
w-sleeping-rough-and
-soup-kitchens.html
Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down. And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this: http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/8350563/ Westminster-to-outla w-sleeping-rough-and -soup-kitchens.html YSTClinguist
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

YSTClinguist wrote:
Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down.

And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this:

http://www.telegraph

.co.uk/news/8350563/

Westminster-to-outla

w-sleeping-rough-and

-soup-kitchens.html
YSTClinguist: Are you citing this reference from The Daily Telegraph as an example of 'how it should be done' ? That is, keep the great mass of starving and unwashed out of sight?
[quote][p][bold]YSTClinguist[/bold] wrote: Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down. And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this: http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/8350563/ Westminster-to-outla w-sleeping-rough-and -soup-kitchens.html[/p][/quote]YSTClinguist: Are you citing this reference from The Daily Telegraph as an example of 'how it should be done' ? That is, keep the great mass of starving and unwashed out of sight? Trespar Zagenstuz
  • Score: 0

1:55pm Fri 4 Jan 13

YSTClinguist says...

Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
YSTClinguist wrote:
Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down.

And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this:

http://www.telegraph


.co.uk/news/8350563/


Westminster-to-outla


w-sleeping-rough-and


-soup-kitchens.html
YSTClinguist: Are you citing this reference from The Daily Telegraph as an example of 'how it should be done' ? That is, keep the great mass of starving and unwashed out of sight?
If you choose to follow the rabbit down the whole and drink strange potions then that may be your thinking. But alas, unfortunately we have 'cleansing' of a hideous nature where certain people don't want to be reminded daily of those who need support, and their growing numbers. Here quite frequently ex-military personnel that they sent to fight unending, unwinnable conflicts and then let off the leash back here.
[quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]YSTClinguist[/bold] wrote: Let's keep this conversation going. No comments on Tory personages physical attributes or admin will shut the comments down. And now on with the derision about workhouse policies from the bar stewards, remember this: http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/8350563/ Westminster-to-outla w-sleeping-rough-and -soup-kitchens.html[/p][/quote]YSTClinguist: Are you citing this reference from The Daily Telegraph as an example of 'how it should be done' ? That is, keep the great mass of starving and unwashed out of sight?[/p][/quote]If you choose to follow the rabbit down the whole and drink strange potions then that may be your thinking. But alas, unfortunately we have 'cleansing' of a hideous nature where certain people don't want to be reminded daily of those who need support, and their growing numbers. Here quite frequently ex-military personnel that they sent to fight unending, unwinnable conflicts and then let off the leash back here. YSTClinguist
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Wurlitzer says...

The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers.
The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers. Wurlitzer
  • Score: 0

2:28pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Wurlitzer says...

We desperately need a None Of The Above option on general election ballot papers.Its truelly sickening to know these politicians can claim 300 pounds a day expenses just for food and accomodation,yet they expectthe unemployed to exist on 72 pounds a week.
We desperately need a None Of The Above option on general election ballot papers.Its truelly sickening to know these politicians can claim 300 pounds a day expenses just for food and accomodation,yet they expectthe unemployed to exist on 72 pounds a week. Wurlitzer
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Tony Manning says...

Ashamed to be a Tory
Ashamed to be a Tory Tony Manning
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

The rich and/or Tories don't hate the poor.
They NEED the poor.
The rich and/or Tories don't hate the poor. They NEED the poor. Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Torkie says...

"Amidst a fiscal crisis, the common people of France were increasingly angered by the incompetency of King Louis XVI and the continued indifference and decadence of the aristocracy. This resentment fueled radical sentiments, and the French Revolution began in 1789"

I'm amazed the political class don't see where they're pushing people. It seems like every day there's something disgusting to read here or at the BBC.
"Amidst a fiscal crisis, the common people of France were increasingly angered by the incompetency of King Louis XVI and the continued indifference and decadence of the aristocracy. This resentment fueled radical sentiments, and the French Revolution began in 1789" I'm amazed the political class don't see where they're pushing people. It seems like every day there's something disgusting to read here or at the BBC. Torkie
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Fri 4 Jan 13

MilkandTwo says...

Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
goodfellow wrote:
The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle.

Oxfam
care to comment Cllr Gillies ?
The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken?

It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%????
Where is this statistic from?
I think the clue is in the word 'Oxfam'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~
This oaf Gillies is merely pouring tory oil onto turbulent waters, in the forlorn hope of creating calm; but I think the oil is quite volatile, and might flare up in his face.
Interestingly (but inevitably), he follows caMoron's line that food banks are a sign of a healthy approach to the problems caused by his government in bringing abject poverty to millions of citizens.
Of course, they are no such thing; they are more of a savage indictment of how loathsome this government has become in accepting poverty as a norm for everybody but themselves, and failing miserably to do anything about it.
There should be no need for these soup kitchens in 2012 in Britain.
This is this point of Cllr Steward's original comments - the definition of poverty is constantly changed.

Oxfam had an income of $385 million last year, mostly from Government grants (Oxfam.org.uk, annual report). If "poverty" ended there would be no need for them. So they keep redefining it.

Certainly there are people who are on hard times and should receive help. But there are also vested interests who use emotive words like poverty wrongly to advance their political aims
[quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]goodfellow[/bold] wrote: The UK is the world's six largest economy, yet 1 in 5 of the UK population live below our official poverty line, meaning that they experience life as a daily struggle. Oxfam care to comment Cllr Gillies ?[/p][/quote]The statistic you are quoting, where is it from, what is that level and when was it taken? It sounds like a trumped up stat to me! 20%????[/p][/quote]Where is this statistic from? I think the clue is in the word 'Oxfam'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ This oaf Gillies is merely pouring tory oil onto turbulent waters, in the forlorn hope of creating calm; but I think the oil is quite volatile, and might flare up in his face. Interestingly (but inevitably), he follows caMoron's line that food banks are a sign of a healthy approach to the problems caused by his government in bringing abject poverty to millions of citizens. Of course, they are no such thing; they are more of a savage indictment of how loathsome this government has become in accepting poverty as a norm for everybody but themselves, and failing miserably to do anything about it. There should be no need for these soup kitchens in 2012 in Britain.[/p][/quote]This is this point of Cllr Steward's original comments - the definition of poverty is constantly changed. Oxfam had an income of $385 million last year, mostly from Government grants (Oxfam.org.uk, annual report). If "poverty" ended there would be no need for them. So they keep redefining it. Certainly there are people who are on hard times and should receive help. But there are also vested interests who use emotive words like poverty wrongly to advance their political aims MilkandTwo
  • Score: 0

5:19pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

"......But alas, unfortunately we have 'cleansing' of a hideous nature where certain people don't want to be reminded daily of those who need support, and their growing numbers. Here quite frequently ex-military personnel that they sent to fight unending, unwinnable conflicts and then let off the leash back here."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~#~~~~~~
~~~~
I take your point and wholeheartedly agree.
"......But alas, unfortunately we have 'cleansing' of a hideous nature where certain people don't want to be reminded daily of those who need support, and their growing numbers. Here quite frequently ex-military personnel that they sent to fight unending, unwinnable conflicts and then let off the leash back here." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~#~~~~~~ ~~~~ I take your point and wholeheartedly agree. Trespar Zagenstuz
  • Score: 0

5:20pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Caecilius says...

Surely to God anyone with a brain in their head now understands that Conservatism exists only to feather the nest of the rich and privileged by stamping on everyone else. Or do some people need to be literally, as well as metaphorically, kicked in the teeth by a government composed of millionaires and smug, talentless toffs before the message gets through to them?

Make 2015 the year the British electorate eliminates the Conservative Party from politics, permanently. It did it for the Liberals: it can do it again.
Surely to God anyone with a brain in their head now understands that Conservatism exists only to feather the nest of the rich and privileged by stamping on everyone else. Or do some people need to be literally, as well as metaphorically, kicked in the teeth by a government composed of millionaires and smug, talentless toffs before the message gets through to them? Make 2015 the year the British electorate eliminates the Conservative Party from politics, permanently. It did it for the Liberals: it can do it again. Caecilius
  • Score: 0

5:24pm Fri 4 Jan 13

south bronx red 2 says...

If this man is allowed to sponge off the public purse anymore , we need to change our democracy.
If this man is allowed to sponge off the public purse anymore , we need to change our democracy. south bronx red 2
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Sillybillies says...

I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved.

Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.
I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved. Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies. Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Fri 4 Jan 13

moose says...

Wurlitzer wrote:
The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers.
Firstly, it's Keynesian, and secondly...do you know what Keynesian economics is?

It is pretty much the complete opposite of what you are claiming it is - it's demand side economics, government pumping money into the economy to kick start things and create demand that the private sector is failing to do, not cuts.

For a very good recent example, see Obama's stimulus bill in the US.

The current UK govt are a million miles from Keynesianism!
[quote][p][bold]Wurlitzer[/bold] wrote: The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers.[/p][/quote]Firstly, it's Keynesian, and secondly...do you know what Keynesian economics is? It is pretty much the complete opposite of what you are claiming it is - it's demand side economics, government pumping money into the economy to kick start things and create demand that the private sector is failing to do, not cuts. For a very good recent example, see Obama's stimulus bill in the US. The current UK govt are a million miles from Keynesianism! moose
  • Score: 0

5:36pm Fri 4 Jan 13

moose says...

Sillybillies wrote:
I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved.

Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.
The left wingers cant construct intelligent arguments...?

Would you like to re-read the first two sentences of your post and then explain how that constitutes an intelligent argument? Can you reference it and provide us with a bibliography? I'm fascinated to know what your peer reviewed source is...

Oh wait, you just made it up and have no evidence to suggest whether it is true or not!

It's beautifully prosaic, but is not an 'argument' as it has no evidential basis.
[quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved. Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.[/p][/quote]The left wingers cant construct intelligent arguments...? Would you like to re-read the first two sentences of your post and then explain how that constitutes an intelligent argument? Can you reference it and provide us with a bibliography? I'm fascinated to know what your peer reviewed source is... Oh wait, you just made it up and have no evidence to suggest whether it is true or not! It's beautifully prosaic, but is not an 'argument' as it has no evidential basis. moose
  • Score: 0

5:56pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Silver says...

Why do we expect people on benefits to be using this? After a cold and wet winter many elderly will have had to spend a fair bit of money to keep warm and dry. Those who rely on state pensions may consider using a food bank.
Why do we expect people on benefits to be using this? After a cold and wet winter many elderly will have had to spend a fair bit of money to keep warm and dry. Those who rely on state pensions may consider using a food bank. Silver
  • Score: 0

6:00pm Fri 4 Jan 13

peterstreet says...

Napoleon once said "dont tell we if he is a good general! tell me if he is lucky!" or words to that effect. Well the York Labour Party and its leader certainly got lucky this week thanks to the local Tory buffoons with the brains of a dead ant. Thankyou, thankyou capn spaulding, tory council 2014, coun steward and gillis and associated mouths. You have blown the next local election big style and you still cant shut your yappers! thankyou, thankyou!
Napoleon once said "dont tell we if he is a good general! tell me if he is lucky!" or words to that effect. Well the York Labour Party and its leader certainly got lucky this week thanks to the local Tory buffoons with the brains of a dead ant. Thankyou, thankyou capn spaulding, tory council 2014, coun steward and gillis and associated mouths. You have blown the next local election big style and you still cant shut your yappers! thankyou, thankyou! peterstreet
  • Score: 0

6:17pm Fri 4 Jan 13

oi oi savaloy says...

Sillybillies wrote:
I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved.

Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.
:) this says it all!

The defenition of poverty in this country seems to be if you have an iPhone 4S and not a 5 and your still in last seasons Adidas tracksuit ...

Getting a bit sick of all this labour rubbish about children in poverty and stuff! No such thing in this country, just bone idle families who can't fend for themselves and would sooner **** their benefits up the wall of the ainsty or corner house pub!
[quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved. Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.[/p][/quote]:) this says it all! The defenition of poverty in this country seems to be if you have an iPhone 4S and not a 5 and your still in last seasons Adidas tracksuit ... Getting a bit sick of all this labour rubbish about children in poverty and stuff! No such thing in this country, just bone idle families who can't fend for themselves and would sooner **** their benefits up the wall of the ainsty or corner house pub! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Fri 4 Jan 13

moose says...

oi oi savaloy wrote:
Sillybillies wrote:
I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved.

Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.
:) this says it all!

The defenition of poverty in this country seems to be if you have an iPhone 4S and not a 5 and your still in last seasons Adidas tracksuit ...

Getting a bit sick of all this labour rubbish about children in poverty and stuff! No such thing in this country, just bone idle families who can't fend for themselves and would sooner **** their benefits up the wall of the ainsty or corner house pub!
Factual evidence to back this up?

Something you once read in the Daily Mail doesn't count.

Somewhere hidden in what Cllr Gilles says is a good point - the poverty we experience in the UK is nothing compared to that of countries with no welfare state, but making flippant, divisive comments that have no obvious basis in fact to justify the assertion doesn't help the argument.

Come back when you can demonstrate objectively that everyone **** their benefits up the wall and nobody lives in poverty.
[quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: I'd like to bet the users of the food bank dock fags before they go in, and light up as soon as they come out, before using their mobiles to chat inanely to their mates to brag about what they have blagged. Then no doubt they toddle off to buy cheap booze with the money saved. Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies.[/p][/quote]:) this says it all! The defenition of poverty in this country seems to be if you have an iPhone 4S and not a 5 and your still in last seasons Adidas tracksuit ... Getting a bit sick of all this labour rubbish about children in poverty and stuff! No such thing in this country, just bone idle families who can't fend for themselves and would sooner **** their benefits up the wall of the ainsty or corner house pub![/p][/quote]Factual evidence to back this up? Something you once read in the Daily Mail doesn't count. Somewhere hidden in what Cllr Gilles says is a good point - the poverty we experience in the UK is nothing compared to that of countries with no welfare state, but making flippant, divisive comments that have no obvious basis in fact to justify the assertion doesn't help the argument. Come back when you can demonstrate objectively that everyone **** their benefits up the wall and nobody lives in poverty. moose
  • Score: 0

6:30pm Fri 4 Jan 13

ReginaldBiscuit says...

You don't need Gillies or Steward mouthing off to know that conservatism is an ideology of the past still set in the past. Expect nothing less than erroneous statements based more on axiomatic thinking than fact. This is after all, what the incumbent Tory-led government does quite frequently. Bash and blame the lowest in society whilst the people who really got the country into a mess namely the finance sector gets off scott free. Oh wait, a couple of poor misfortunate bank heads have been put out to pasture on a few million pension each. How sad for them! How tragic!

Gillies, Steward. Bitter narrow-minded egomaniacs espousing division creating drivel. Still though Mr Steward, if the public go hungry and they have no food banks, they can always eat tories. A silver lining to every cloud.
You don't need Gillies or Steward mouthing off to know that conservatism is an ideology of the past still set in the past. Expect nothing less than erroneous statements based more on axiomatic thinking than fact. This is after all, what the incumbent Tory-led government does quite frequently. Bash and blame the lowest in society whilst the people who really got the country into a mess namely the finance sector gets off scott free. Oh wait, a couple of poor misfortunate bank heads have been put out to pasture on a few million pension each. How sad for them! How tragic! Gillies, Steward. Bitter narrow-minded egomaniacs espousing division creating drivel. Still though Mr Steward, if the public go hungry and they have no food banks, they can always eat tories. A silver lining to every cloud. ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: 0

7:10pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

Sillybillies wrote:

"Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~#~~~~~~~
~~~~~
I accept that is a poor show to judge people such as Mr Gillies on appearance, but there are no arguments offered by myself, a 'resident left winger' if you must, regarding his girth.
However, one can reflect on the chap's size and extrapolate some observed notion from it. That is slightly (but only slightly !) more evidential than hearsay 'from a bloke down the pub who once thought he saw somebody stubbing his cigarette out and putting away his mobile phone prior to entering the food bank'.
....................
..........###.......
..........
Incidentally, can somebody correct me or otherwise: I thought that food banks could only be used by unfortunate folk referred to them by the Job Centre, and use of such was restricted and means-tested. I am not aware one can simply nip along there and grab a hearty tin of cardboard sausages and a white sllced loaf......
Sillybillies wrote: "Interesting to see how the resident left wingers can't construct intelligent arguments but have to resort to insults based on the physical appearance of their class enemies." ~~~~~~~~~~~~#~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ I accept that is a poor show to judge people such as Mr Gillies on appearance, but there are no arguments offered by myself, a 'resident left winger' if you must, regarding his girth. However, one can reflect on the chap's size and extrapolate some observed notion from it. That is slightly (but only slightly !) more evidential than hearsay 'from a bloke down the pub who once thought he saw somebody stubbing his cigarette out and putting away his mobile phone prior to entering the food bank'. .................... ..........###....... .......... Incidentally, can somebody correct me or otherwise: I thought that food banks could only be used by unfortunate folk referred to them by the Job Centre, and use of such was restricted and means-tested. I am not aware one can simply nip along there and grab a hearty tin of cardboard sausages and a white sllced loaf...... Trespar Zagenstuz
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Fri 4 Jan 13

nearlyman says...

Hoofarted wrote:
Oink Oink Poverty? Oink Oink Where?

This particular Oinker sold his free taxi plate, given to him by the citizens of York's taxi licencing for multiple of thousands of pounds. Enough to stock plenty of food banks.

Pig in the troth refusing to see others go hungry. Shame on you!
Oh dear oh dear, you really have tunnel vision............Yo
ur darling MP Mr Bayley was not so long ago exposed as quite happy to claim £400 a month off the tax payer for food. (That would quite handsomely stock one of these banks). He also claims to cycle his bike round York. (he looks extremely uncomfortable on a bike, but hey, it gets a bit more publicity). He is also one of the highest claiming MP's on his expenses, despite being a spectacular underachiever.
Now who has his nose in the trough ?
.....Oh and nothing to do with faithfulness or fidelity.!
[quote][p][bold]Hoofarted[/bold] wrote: Oink Oink Poverty? Oink Oink Where? This particular Oinker sold his free taxi plate, given to him by the citizens of York's taxi licencing for multiple of thousands of pounds. Enough to stock plenty of food banks. Pig in the troth refusing to see others go hungry. Shame on you![/p][/quote]Oh dear oh dear, you really have tunnel vision............Yo ur darling MP Mr Bayley was not so long ago exposed as quite happy to claim £400 a month off the tax payer for food. (That would quite handsomely stock one of these banks). He also claims to cycle his bike round York. (he looks extremely uncomfortable on a bike, but hey, it gets a bit more publicity). He is also one of the highest claiming MP's on his expenses, despite being a spectacular underachiever. Now who has his nose in the trough ? .....Oh and nothing to do with faithfulness or fidelity.! nearlyman
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Fri 4 Jan 13

nearlyman says...

Oh, and how come you are so familiar with Mr Gillies financial arrangements ?? Have you obtained this priviliged information legally ?
Oh, and how come you are so familiar with Mr Gillies financial arrangements ?? Have you obtained this priviliged information legally ? nearlyman
  • Score: 0

7:28pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

Said it before and I'll say it again.

Politics is a nasty business that brings out the worst in people.
Said it before and I'll say it again. Politics is a nasty business that brings out the worst in people. Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

9:15pm Fri 4 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

Wurlitzer wrote:
The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers.
Total rot.

Coun Gillies was born in Tang Hall, and I come from a council house background, and we both know about being poor. Neither of us hate the poor, and there are many conservatives from our background.

Labour politicians hate the rich, are envious of the rich, and use the poor as a way to get into power to get at the rich. They waste money, mismanage and leave a mess behind them. Look at Councillors Simpson-Laing and Merrett as an example. They are in power yet have continued to use punitive housing policies to stop housebuilding resulting in a worsening housing crisis. Why don't they do something about it ? Because they are using York as a political stick to beat the coalition government with. By stopping housebuilding they are using this to blame the government. They have now been found out because York's housing completions continue to fall as surrounding areas improve, exposing Labour's mismanagement. Things are now so bad that they will be forced to make policy changes, but, it's too late to save them and York's housing numbers will not recover for years, and we will be behind the rest of the region in recovery.
[quote][p][bold]Wurlitzer[/bold] wrote: The Tories hate the poor,they along with the Lib Dems believe in kensian capitalism,ie its not the job of the government to take care of the needy.There will be no recovery from this recession,in a year or so the gov will announce that the recession is much deeper than they first realised,cue more savage cuts.There endgame is the destruction of the welfare state..ie part of their core beliefs..kensian capitalism. They have not even started on their plans for the workers,they want you to realise that if we can be so cruel to the sick and disabled then imagine what we are prepared to do to the workers.[/p][/quote]Total rot. Coun Gillies was born in Tang Hall, and I come from a council house background, and we both know about being poor. Neither of us hate the poor, and there are many conservatives from our background. Labour politicians hate the rich, are envious of the rich, and use the poor as a way to get into power to get at the rich. They waste money, mismanage and leave a mess behind them. Look at Councillors Simpson-Laing and Merrett as an example. They are in power yet have continued to use punitive housing policies to stop housebuilding resulting in a worsening housing crisis. Why don't they do something about it ? Because they are using York as a political stick to beat the coalition government with. By stopping housebuilding they are using this to blame the government. They have now been found out because York's housing completions continue to fall as surrounding areas improve, exposing Labour's mismanagement. Things are now so bad that they will be forced to make policy changes, but, it's too late to save them and York's housing numbers will not recover for years, and we will be behind the rest of the region in recovery. Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

9:19pm Fri 4 Jan 13

twotonethomas says...

And to think that I've just had a complaint made about something I'm alleged to have said, to the council that I'm on, by a thin skinned fox abusing hunter. (rolls eyes and sighs)
And to think that I've just had a complaint made about something I'm alleged to have said, to the council that I'm on, by a thin skinned fox abusing hunter. (rolls eyes and sighs) twotonethomas
  • Score: 0

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