Supporters not perfect (From York Press)

Colin....were you at Heysel?
Anybody could have breached any fence in that shanty inadequate pit called Heysel, the place was falling to bits.
Were you a frightened 15 year old liverpool fan who was faced with a seething mob of Juventus fans coming at you in the "so called" Liverpool end?
Were you witness to the Juventus fans with air pistols and starting pistols?
Granted, Liverpool fans are not saints but neither were the Juventus fans.

Well said Colin...you have hit the nail on the head.

The question that should be addressed is....Why did so many Liverpool fans turn up without tickets. When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through.
Respect to all the dead but Liverpool fans/people seem to thrive on adversity.

The latest report exonerates the Liverpool supporters from blame for the Hillsborough disaster, because they were NOT to blame.

It and Mr Kelly do not mention Heysel, because that was not the disaster being investigated. Or does Mr Jeffrey think every stadium disaster for the last 140 years should have been included?

The fact that Liverpool's fans are no better or worse than anyone else, is precisely what makes the whole shabby saga so shameful - these were supporters no different to anyone else, yet for 23 years they were villified and lied about by police, media, and government acting in collusion.

Suggestions are now emerging that some of the justice campaigners had their phones tapped or were even burgled. Now I wonder which of the organisations involved might do a thing like that?

ickyplush wrote:
Well said Colin...you have hit the nail on the head.

The question that should be addressed is....Why did so many Liverpool fans turn up without tickets. When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through.
Respect to all the dead but Liverpool fans/people seem to thrive on adversity.

Couple of things...Why did so many liverpool fans turn up without tickets?
Who said that they did?
Do you know that they did or are you believing what South Yorkshire Police told the media in 1989?

"When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through"
If you read witness statements you would know that the crush started outside the turnstiles near gate C, people felt like they were in a tube of toothpaste being squeezed, if that was you, fighting for breath and space when suddenly a big blue gate opens...you would have done like everybody else did and went through it.
It was a gate that was opened not a turnstile, big difference.

Hi keepitshut, funny enough, I was celebrating my birthday on that Wednesday 29 May 1985 at the Heizel stadium (correct spelling). I saw Liverpool fans murder 38 Italians and 1 Belgian. And you still blame the stadium? Justice for the 39. When are the Liverpudlians going to name and shame the criminals in their midst?
Cheers
Wim

keepitshut wrote:

ickyplush wrote:
Well said Colin...you have hit the nail on the head.

The question that should be addressed is....Why did so many Liverpool fans turn up without tickets. When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through.
Respect to all the dead but Liverpool fans/people seem to thrive on adversity.

Couple of things...Why did so many liverpool fans turn up without tickets?
Who said that they did?
Do you know that they did or are you believing what South Yorkshire Police told the media in 1989?

"When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through"
If you read witness statements you would know that the crush started outside the turnstiles near gate C, people felt like they were in a tube of toothpaste being squeezed, if that was you, fighting for breath and space when suddenly a big blue gate opens...you would have done like everybody else did and went through it.
It was a gate that was opened not a turnstile, big difference.

I said the gate....I never mentioned the turnstile......

And it is well documented fans turned up without tickets.

ickyplush wrote:

keepitshut wrote:

ickyplush wrote:
Well said Colin...you have hit the nail on the head.

The question that should be addressed is....Why did so many Liverpool fans turn up without tickets. When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through.
Respect to all the dead but Liverpool fans/people seem to thrive on adversity.

Couple of things...Why did so many liverpool fans turn up without tickets?
Who said that they did?
Do you know that they did or are you believing what South Yorkshire Police told the media in 1989?

"When the gates opened every man and his dog could rush through"
If you read witness statements you would know that the crush started outside the turnstiles near gate C, people felt like they were in a tube of toothpaste being squeezed, if that was you, fighting for breath and space when suddenly a big blue gate opens...you would have done like everybody else did and went through it.
It was a gate that was opened not a turnstile, big difference.

I said the gate....I never mentioned the turnstile......

And it is well documented fans turned up without tickets.

I quote "The Hillsborough Independent Panel concluded: Consistent with Lord Justice Taylors findings, the Panel found no evidence to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans.There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying"
Just about sums up the myths about ticketless fans.

wimtroch wrote:
Hi keepitshut, funny enough, I was celebrating my birthday on that Wednesday 29 May 1985 at the Heizel stadium (correct spelling). I saw Liverpool fans murder 38 Italians and 1 Belgian. And you still blame the stadium? Justice for the 39. When are the Liverpudlians going to name and shame the criminals in their midst?
Cheers
Wim

On that day you would also have seen the 2 hour battle of Juventus fans versus the riot police then?

The stadium and the staff did play a part in the disaster, if you were there you would have seen fans from both sides ripping the concerete to bits and hurling it at each other, you would have seen the **** poor flimsy fencing seperating the fans and the so called "neutral areas" etc

I do believe that 14 fans were charged and jailed for Involuntary manslaughter as a result.

Just for the record...32 Italians, 4 Belguims, 2 French and 1 irishman died on that horrible night.

So, you still blame the stadium, the rocks picked themselves up and threw themselves at the Juve fans? You never saw the charge of the Red Brigade against the people in the corner, causing the wall to collapse, or did the Juve fans jump against it, just for the fun of it? And no, not one Scouse fan ever got charged or did time for it, they never apologised for it, nor have they ever named the criminals. The then Belgian Home Affairs Minister resigned and the Liverpudlians continued to wallow in self-pity

In my 35 years of being a football fan the worst trouble has always been when my team played Liverpool. As a 17 year old girl exiting the away end at Anfield I was thumped by 2 scousers just for simply wearing the shirt of my team.
I believe the 96 WERE innocent & are not to blame at all for the appalling scenes at Hillsborough that day. Nothing & nobody will convince me that the Liverpool fans outside the gates did not have some part to play in the disaster.