Be honest on benefits (From York Press)

Get real.
You do not have children to get extra benefit. If you choose to have extra children, you have to make sacrifices in your own life.
I work far more than 42 hours per week and would struggle to be able to afford children. Why should those on benefits be able to do it?
I know hardly anyone in York who earns anywhere near £26K even before tax, never mind after it and they work for their money.

Fair enough there are people who need help beyond £26k due to disabilities and illness and they are being provided for.
This is aimed at people who don't work but can, and think that they deserve to live in areas that the rest of us can only dream of.

Maquis wrote:
Get real. You do not have children to get extra benefit. If you choose to have extra children, you have to make sacrifices in your own life. I work far more than 42 hours per week and would struggle to be able to afford children. Why should those on benefits be able to do it? I know hardly anyone in York who earns anywhere near £26K even before tax, never mind after it and they work for their money. Fair enough there are people who need help beyond £26k due to disabilities and illness and they are being provided for. This is aimed at people who don't work but can, and think that they deserve to live in areas that the rest of us can only dream of.

Totally agree with the comments from Maquis.

Unfortunately the letter writer seems one of these people that believes the 'government' has money rather than individuals. The reality is hardworking people are going without things for the good of people on benefits. Yes some deserve them, but it really isn't unfair to say if you can't afford children then don't have them!

People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find.

People need affordable housing, rent and council housing.

The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence.

And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax.

" People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find."

Yes, most do, but there are also the ones who don't and will happily takes large benefit houndouts because they get more than if they're working.

"People need affordable housing, rent and council housing."

Even the one's in council houses who are on over £100,000 per annum? Maybe they should be moved out for more needy ones?

"The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence."

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, unless we can set up a new party of election.

"And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax"

**** right. Lets put our foot down and be fair on everyone. Higher earners pay more and lower earners less, but make the punishment harder for benefit fraud as more of a deterrent.

Corran - I will never convince right wingers such as you. So much as I would dearly love to engage with you, rather futile to waste both of our time.

Oh dear.

Rather than advocating any other point (except expressing support for the benifits cap at £26,000) I had simply hoped that my letter would point out some mathematical misconceptions that I find people are making when talking to me about the benefits cap. Indviduals are not households and wages are not the only income in some households.

Maquis, I entirely agree that a responsible adult should plan to wait until they are financially secure enough to support a child. But the reality is that there are children in society in families that need support today and unless a person supports a very radical brand of ultra right wingism, one can not 'Un-Birth' a child.

I believe Britain stands for giving a child the best possible chance, regardless of background, and since there isnt a system in place to ensure society's cash is solely spent on a child's well being or one that identifies 'bad parents' we are stuck with the system we have.

If there's a way to support children's welfare without giving cash to these supposed hordes of layabout parents I'm sure I'd like to hear it.

Micklegate, gosh, I called for intellectual honesty but you only seemed to get half the message! You seem to be one of those right wingers who foam at the mouth at the mere mention of benefits even before reading the content. It's very silly of you to build up a strawman argument against a person who supports your views... Perhaps your energies would be best best directed at those that disagree with your view?? Just a thought.

newscritic wrote:
Corran - I will never convince right wingers such as you. So much as I would dearly love to engage with you, rather futile to waste both of our time.

Newscritic, you couldn't convice them.
They are not open to reasonable debate. Go to the Daily mail web page today, they printed a story, with regard to a study, which concludes that Conservatives are less intelligent than left wingers............n
o I couldn't believe it either, The Morning Star, Socialist Worker Daily Mirror and Guadrian yes but the Daily Mail?

Anyway they are intelligent because as it states, they are open minded and not open to racism because of nationalism etc......read it, it's wonderful.

CynicaloldGit wrote:

newscritic wrote:
Corran - I will never convince right wingers such as you. So much as I would dearly love to engage with you, rather futile to waste both of our time.

Newscritic, you couldn't convice them.
They are not open to reasonable debate. Go to the Daily mail web page today, they printed a story, with regard to a study, which concludes that Conservatives are less intelligent than left wingers............n

o I couldn't believe it either, The Morning Star, Socialist Worker Daily Mirror and Guadrian yes but the Daily Mail?

Anyway they are intelligent because as it states, they are open minded and not open to racism because of nationalism etc......read it, it's wonderful.

Explains why certain posters on here seem to be oblivious to rational debate.

Also if this study is correct shouldn't the Tory party be banned because the Tories attract people of low intelligence with a potential for racism and prejudice?

Look at the statistics from the USA today - roaring ahead of the UK because they haven't adopted the overly zealous austerity policies that the stupid Tories have over here.

But bless 'em, they can't help themselves if this study is anything to go by.

There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Look, forget this mythical figure of 26000, that is for London. Most of any benefits, goes to landlords for exhorbitant rents..........pound to a penny too, that these landlords are members of or vote Tory?

CynicaloldGit wrote:
Look, forget this mythical figure of 26000, that is for London. Most of any benefits, goes to landlords for exhorbitant rents..........pound to a penny too, that these landlords are members of or vote Tory?

Chris Huhne owns 8 rental properties and is currently having one renovated at a cost of £1.3 million. Tony Blair owns about 12 properties including a country mansion. Michael Meacher owns half a dozen rental properties. And many other politicians are landlords - which is why the proposed mansion tax is to be set at £2 million as most rental properties of these politicians will be below that figure.

Politicians are unlikely to cap high rents if they personally benefit from them - hypocrites and self serving politicians happy to sit back and watch others struggle while having their rental portfolios subsidised by the taxpayer. Yuk.

And don't get me going about the flipping of homes to pay for MP's mortgage interest on second homes.

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

Yikes, an example of a Tory, low intelligence and all LIKE THAT STUDY SAYS.

I better humour him - why yes I am Tony Blair.

newscritic wrote:
People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find.

People need affordable housing, rent and council housing.

The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence.

And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax.

Sorry but some people do not want to work if there is "free" money from the tax payer to be had! The family over the road from me in a house paid for thru benefits haven't lifted a finger since moving in 6 years a go! They have 5 kids all school age, all totally out of control because the parents don't care about them! They are just a free ticket for more free money from the tax payer! They must be on bucket loads of free money because the amount of time they spend in the corner house is astronomical and the amount of mobile phones they go thru is amazing! When drunk they just launch them at each other! Hurrah to the tax payer for giving these people a free ride in society along with all the others like these people!

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find.

People need affordable housing, rent and council housing.

The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence.

And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax.

Sorry but some people do not want to work if there is "free" money from the tax payer to be had! The family over the road from me in a house paid for thru benefits haven't lifted a finger since moving in 6 years a go! They have 5 kids all school age, all totally out of control because the parents don't care about them! They are just a free ticket for more free money from the tax payer! They must be on bucket loads of free money because the amount of time they spend in the corner house is astronomical and the amount of mobile phones they go thru is amazing! When drunk they just launch them at each other! Hurrah to the tax payer for giving these people a free ride in society along with all the others like these people!

Have you not heard of paragraphs?

Another example of Tory inadequacy AS IN THAT STUDY!

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

Yikes, an example of a Tory, low intelligence and all LIKE THAT STUDY SAYS.

I better humour him - why yes I am Tony Blair.

Phoney Blair more like! Just another blinkered do gooder who sees things thru rose tinted spectacles

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find.

People need affordable housing, rent and council housing.

The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence.

And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax.

Sorry but some people do not want to work if there is "free" money from the tax payer to be had! The family over the road from me in a house paid for thru benefits haven't lifted a finger since moving in 6 years a go! They have 5 kids all school age, all totally out of control because the parents don't care about them! They are just a free ticket for more free money from the tax payer! They must be on bucket loads of free money because the amount of time they spend in the corner house is astronomical and the amount of mobile phones they go thru is amazing! When drunk they just launch them at each other! Hurrah to the tax payer for giving these people a free ride in society along with all the others like these people!

Have you not heard of paragraphs?

Another example of Tory inadequacy AS IN THAT STUDY!

Oh dear! Is that the best you can come back with?

Er, yes I have heard of paragraphs , but really couldn't be bothered with them!

And why get all angry using capital letters ?

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

Yikes, an example of a Tory, low intelligence and all LIKE THAT STUDY SAYS.

I better humour him - why yes I am Tony Blair.

Phoney Blair more like! Just another blinkered do gooder who sees things thru rose tinted spectacles

Yet more evidence THAT STUDY is correct - like your bible the Daily Mail reports.

I bet your reasoning would look less ugly if I read your posts through rose tinted specs - I'll have to give it a try.

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
People do not want handouts, they want properly paid work which millions can't find.

People need affordable housing, rent and council housing.

The government like the one before it is letting down the people of this country and scapegoating to detract from their bigoted incompetence.

And of course the housing benefit cap will hardly save much money when compared to the overall benefits expenditure and the fact that the Tories and New Labour before them let those with proper money off from paying their fair amount in tax.

Sorry but some people do not want to work if there is "free" money from the tax payer to be had! The family over the road from me in a house paid for thru benefits haven't lifted a finger since moving in 6 years a go! They have 5 kids all school age, all totally out of control because the parents don't care about them! They are just a free ticket for more free money from the tax payer! They must be on bucket loads of free money because the amount of time they spend in the corner house is astronomical and the amount of mobile phones they go thru is amazing! When drunk they just launch them at each other! Hurrah to the tax payer for giving these people a free ride in society along with all the others like these people!

Have you not heard of paragraphs?

Another example of Tory inadequacy AS IN THAT STUDY!

Oh dear! Is that the best you can come back with?

Er, yes I have heard of paragraphs , but really couldn't be bothered with them!

And why get all angry using capital letters ?

More evidence to back up THAT STUDY!

You know that paragraphs exist yet choose not to use them because you can't be bothered - typical Tory.

The use of capitals in this case is to emphasise to right wing thickos that such a study exists - you should read it, you may learn something about yourself.

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

Yikes, an example of a Tory, low intelligence and all LIKE THAT STUDY SAYS.

I better humour him - why yes I am Tony Blair.

Phoney Blair more like! Just another blinkered do gooder who sees things thru rose tinted spectacles

Yet more evidence THAT STUDY is correct - like your bible the Daily Mail reports.

I bet your reasoning would look less ugly if I read your posts through rose tinted specs - I'll have to give it a try.

Your simply missing the point and you are getting a bit weird throwing in the daily mail bit.why don't you phone Gordon brown settle your differences and chill out a bit

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

geoff tibletts wrote:
There is no argument about people who are in genuine need of help through no fault of there own.the problem is and it's in every town and city in this country is the amount of people who are fit to work but choose the benefit way of life via large offspring .hard working people who get no where near £26000 must be thinking the world has gone mad.there is simply to many people who just take take take and offer nothing in return.shocking

How patronising.

You are sweeping everyone up in one heap of what you consider to be low-life.

You have absolutley no idea about the personal circumstances of the thousands of households affected.

You do not know how many are hard-working even if that hard work involves bringing up a few children.

Many are probably in employment which does not pay well.

You do not know what their income is and ignore their plight of being in an area of high rent.

To cap it all the average housing benfit is about £85 per week.

This is about the Tories wishing to remove thousands of families, which include more than 200,000 children, and to throw them onto even harder times.

And why? Well to support the Tories universal credit which is supposed to make work pay - try telling that to the mass unemployed created by the Tories austerity drive.

Are you tony Blair by any chance

Yikes, an example of a Tory, low intelligence and all LIKE THAT STUDY SAYS.

I better humour him - why yes I am Tony Blair.

Phoney Blair more like! Just another blinkered do gooder who sees things thru rose tinted spectacles

Yet more evidence THAT STUDY is correct - like your bible the Daily Mail reports.

I bet your reasoning would look less ugly if I read your posts through rose tinted specs - I'll have to give it a try.

You don't know me news critic!

1, I stupidly voted for the labour party from 1979 to about 2002.

2, I will never ever vote for them again, they ruined this country thru their reckless governining!

3, I voted Tory last election, they are a better alternative than the last Gordon brown led labour party.

4, I have never read a daily mail in my life,, daily express is my paper!

So there you go 4 things about me , what I do know about you tho is you can't seem to put up with other peoples views , I would go crawl back under your rock xx

Hey ho!

newscritic wrote:
Hey ho!

Aw, thought you would have picked me up on my typo ;)

Hey oi oi savaloy - I might come across you under that rock! You intolerant person you.

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
Hey ho!

Aw, thought you would have picked me up on my typo ;)

This is just getting silly now - move along now nothing more going on here.

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
Hey ho!

Aw, thought you would have picked me up on my typo ;)

This is just getting silly now - move along now nothing more going on here.

Ok mr blair

geoff tibletts wrote:

newscritic wrote:

oi oi savaloy wrote:

newscritic wrote:
Hey ho!

Aw, thought you would have picked me up on my typo ;)

This is just getting silly now - move along now nothing more going on here.

Ok mr blair

Ok Mrs T!

newscritic wrote:
Hey oi oi savaloy - I might come across you under that rock! You intolerant person you.

You see, there you go again! Thinking you know me?? You don't know what I tolerate or intolerate!

Micklegate wrote:

Maquis wrote:
Get real. You do not have children to get extra benefit. If you choose to have extra children, you have to make sacrifices in your own life. I work far more than 42 hours per week and would struggle to be able to afford children. Why should those on benefits be able to do it? I know hardly anyone in York who earns anywhere near £26K even before tax, never mind after it and they work for their money. Fair enough there are people who need help beyond £26k due to disabilities and illness and they are being provided for. This is aimed at people who don't work but can, and think that they deserve to live in areas that the rest of us can only dream of.

Totally agree with the comments from Maquis.

Unfortunately the letter writer seems one of these people that believes the 'government' has money rather than individuals. The reality is hardworking people are going without things for the good of people on benefits. Yes some deserve them, but it really isn't unfair to say if you can't afford children then don't have them!

I am a little confused, do you propose rebuilding work houses for the needy perhaps?

Brickyard wrote:

Micklegate wrote:

Maquis wrote: Get real. You do not have children to get extra benefit. If you choose to have extra children, you have to make sacrifices in your own life. I work far more than 42 hours per week and would struggle to be able to afford children. Why should those on benefits be able to do it? I know hardly anyone in York who earns anywhere near £26K even before tax, never mind after it and they work for their money. Fair enough there are people who need help beyond £26k due to disabilities and illness and they are being provided for. This is aimed at people who don't work but can, and think that they deserve to live in areas that the rest of us can only dream of.

Totally agree with the comments from Maquis. Unfortunately the letter writer seems one of these people that believes the 'government' has money rather than individuals. The reality is hardworking people are going without things for the good of people on benefits. Yes some deserve them, but it really isn't unfair to say if you can't afford children then don't have them!

I am a little confused, do you propose rebuilding work houses for the needy perhaps?

Don't be confused, the answer is no.

Do you have anything remotely relevant to add to the discussion?

Brickyard wrote:

Micklegate wrote:

Maquis wrote:
Get real. You do not have children to get extra benefit. If you choose to have extra children, you have to make sacrifices in your own life. I work far more than 42 hours per week and would struggle to be able to afford children. Why should those on benefits be able to do it? I know hardly anyone in York who earns anywhere near £26K even before tax, never mind after it and they work for their money. Fair enough there are people who need help beyond £26k due to disabilities and illness and they are being provided for. This is aimed at people who don't work but can, and think that they deserve to live in areas that the rest of us can only dream of.

Totally agree with the comments from Maquis.

Unfortunately the letter writer seems one of these people that believes the 'government' has money rather than individuals. The reality is hardworking people are going without things for the good of people on benefits. Yes some deserve them, but it really isn't unfair to say if you can't afford children then don't have them!

I am a little confused, do you propose rebuilding work houses for the needy perhaps?

How do you come to that conclusion?

All he is saying is why should some one who Works hard for a living have less than some one on benefits?? And that would be the majority of workers (not shirkers) in York ! I myself only earn 22.5K before tax working in a skilled position! Well below th 26k CASH on benefits

Maybe people on benefits need more money than workers because they have more time to spend down the boozer.

4, I have never read a daily mail in my life,, daily express is my paper!

LOL!