Traffic levels in York - the case for road closure (From York Press)

A new bicycle path along the Fulford Road? That's good news indeed! I'll be going to have a look at it today.

It would indeed be interesting to know how the pollution levels change. If you weren't telling it as a joke I wouldn't find it funny Councillor. What part of "If you close roads you increase congestion" don't you understand? All you will do is move the pollution and congestion elsewhere. As for using that as an excuse for road charging......Words fail me.
Not one of the Councillors as far as I am aware has any real experience in road use and only learn it as they go along. Then lo and behold 2 years later either become the "new" local road Czar or leave the job. Ther e are so many Cycle paths in York that have encroached onto the main highway and yet there is ample room to extend the road width to accomodate both cars and cycles. That would give people a practical choice . Please do so on Fulford Road.

Surely it must be obvious to even the greenest advocates that closing one road simply shifts the traffic and pollution elsewhere.It doesn't prove a thing to quote one set of statistics without reference to the alternatives.

sheps lad wrote:
Surely it must be obvious to even the greenest advocates that closing one road simply shifts the traffic and pollution elsewhere.It doesn't prove a thing to quote one set of statistics without reference to the alternatives.

Another specious argument in favour of keeping the present status quo. Defending the right to drive is indefensible in urban areas at peak times.
Traffic can be reduced and will have to be enforced if there is insufficient voluntary modal shift to car sharing, Park & Ride, cycling & walking.

pedalling paul wrote:

sheps lad wrote:
Surely it must be obvious to even the greenest advocates that closing one road simply shifts the traffic and pollution elsewhere.It doesn't prove a thing to quote one set of statistics without reference to the alternatives.

Another specious argument in favour of keeping the present status quo. Defending the right to drive is indefensible in urban areas at peak times.
Traffic can be reduced and will have to be enforced if there is insufficient voluntary modal shift to car sharing, Park & Ride, cycling & walking.

Paul, i am not advocating keeping the status quo,merely stating the obvious.Where in my comment do I defend the right to drive,cycle or walk.
Paranoia seems to be setting in.Time to get in the shed with your bike!

Those who say that the solution is to open up roads ignore human nature. Unfortunately it has been acknowledged since the SACTRA report in 1995 that more roadspace=more traffic. Provide good public transport and attractive walking and cycling routes and people will use them rather than sit in traffic queues spending money on polluting our streets in their motors. European cities learnt this 30 years ago, but we just kept building roads and are now surprised that we have air quality above safety limits, rip off private bus services that stop running at 8pm (if not before) and the highest levels of youth obesity. The congestion scrutiny questionnaire shows that the costs are astronomic of trying to build our way out of a car dominated lifestyle, and ignore the fact that petrol is going to get more and more expensive and scarcer, assuming we ignore the climate change reasons for cutting car use and moving to 'low carbon economy'

Forgive me, but having visited many parts of Europe over the last 30 odd years I have yet to see any evidence of a reduction in car use. On the contrary the motor car is here to stay.Untill some-one comes up with a viable alternative we will have to learn to live with it!

SACTRA was the Government's Standing Advisory Committee on Trunk Road Assessment. A principal finding was that building new roads to try and end congestion simply creates more journeys. Witness the no. of extra lanes added to the M25 with no eventual impact on traffic flow. Try it locally on the A1237, for a similar result.

pedalling paul wrote:
SACTRA was the Government's Standing Advisory Committee on Trunk Road Assessment. A principal finding was that building new roads to try and end congestion simply creates more journeys. Witness the no. of extra lanes added to the M25 with no eventual impact on traffic flow. Try it locally on the A1237, for a similar result.

Pity they didn't add a cycle lane on the M25.Probably would have worked wonders!

How can you compare the M25 with York!? Adding lanes to the M25 is not the only contributing factor to a rise in traffic. There are a lot more alternative routes through and around London that people choose between, and a lot more factors such as increasing population, and the inability to cycle the long distances the M25 covers. York is different. It's small, with a small population and only 2 choices for crossing it from one side to the other, ring road or city.

You don't want us in the city and the ring road is gridlocked. What are we to do? Buses are too expensive and I don't want to cycle 10 miles with a child and shopping. The A64 is great! I can cover 11 miles in 15 minutes and some of that is getting out on the local roads. The A1237 is a joke. From A59 to clifton moor took me 30 mins yesterday afternoon! It's only about 3 miles isn't it? My cars onboard computer showed 15mpg! It does 38mpg when I use the A64 for a nice steady 60mph. How you can say that dualling the A1237 would only give a 3 minute improvement is a mystery. My 3 mile journey should have taken 3 minutes at 60mph, not 30 minutes.

I actually found the city centre route much quicker on the return journey, except for getting held up behind some cycles and a bus that kept stopping in the middle of the road. Didn't bus stops used to be in laybys?
How is closing roads going to help when the A1237 can't cope with what it already has? How much does dualling cost again? £60 million? How many households is there in York? 90000? £666 per household. £4 a week for 3 years. Bargain.

Now on yer bike!

SensibleSimon wrote:
How can you compare the M25 with York!? Adding lanes to the M25 is not the only contributing factor to a rise in traffic. There are a lot more alternative routes through and around London that people choose between, and a lot more factors such as increasing population, and the inability to cycle the long distances the M25 covers. York is different. It's small, with a small population and only 2 choices for crossing it from one side to the other, ring road or city. You don't want us in the city and the ring road is gridlocked. What are we to do? Buses are too expensive and I don't want to cycle 10 miles with a child and shopping. The A64 is great! I can cover 11 miles in 15 minutes and some of that is getting out on the local roads. The A1237 is a joke. From A59 to clifton moor took me 30 mins yesterday afternoon! It's only about 3 miles isn't it? My cars onboard computer showed 15mpg! It does 38mpg when I use the A64 for a nice steady 60mph. How you can say that dualling the A1237 would only give a 3 minute improvement is a mystery. My 3 mile journey should have taken 3 minutes at 60mph, not 30 minutes. I actually found the city centre route much quicker on the return journey, except for getting held up behind some cycles and a bus that kept stopping in the middle of the road. Didn't bus stops used to be in laybys? How is closing roads going to help when the A1237 can't cope with what it already has? How much does dualling cost again? £60 million? How many households is there in York? 90000? £666 per household. £4 a week for 3 years. Bargain. Now on yer bike!

True the A1237 is a failure as a bypass, with frequent, regular protracted delays throughout the week, but it will not be doubled in the next 10 years; work on "pinch points" is vital. An earthwork flyover at the A19 junction would be a big help, and build the bank wide enough for two lanes. The A64 dual section is generally OK; other than accidents, only those infernal tractors cause regular problems. Sensible travellers will use York or the A64 and avoid the northern car park.

As for Chantel’s desire for her daughter to be able to cycle with friends to school along Fulford Road, I would be interested to hear her views once the new cycle route currently under construction between Cemetery Road and Heslington Lane is complete.

I'd also be interested to hear her views after she has been told that this is a shared use pavement, and that studies have shown that these routes are the most dangerous for cyclists, and are much more dangerous than cycling on a main road.
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This cycle path is a disgusting waste of money, and is putting cyclists and pedestrians at totally unnecessary risk. Cyclists should be riding on the road, or on dedicated, segregated tracks that have no pedestrians and no road crossings. Putting them on the pavement, when it is known to be dangerous, is nothing short of criminally negligent.