Self-inflicted pain

Self-inflicted pain

Self-inflicted pain

First published in Letters

THE Israelis are trying to stop terrorists firing rockets and using tunnels to attack and kill and kidnap their citizens.

It’s Hamas which is responsible for the atrocities as they use their own population as human shields, refusing to let them leave the areas of conflict and firing missiles from areas close to schools, hospitals and mosques.

Hamas has even tried to hit the nuclear power station at Dimona.

The reason the British condemnation is muted is that they know Israel is trying to deal with terrorists and protect their citizens.

If the terrorists had stopped firing missiles at Israel, there would have been no response.

The restrictions placed on Gaza were to try and reduce the attacks on Israel. Israel supplies Gaza with food, fuel, medicine and electricity even during times of conflict.

Twenty per cent of the citizens of Israel are not Jews and have exactly the same rights as Jewish citizens.

Just because there have been more casualties among the Palestinians than the Israelis does not mean the Israeli response is disproportionate.

Hamas is attempting to commit genocide. Their charter commits them to the extermination of not just Israel but the Jewish people.

Mrs J Summerfield, Bowyers Close, Copmanthorpe, York.

Comments (18)

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10:23am Thu 7 Aug 14

PKH says...

But Isreal's blockade and heavy handedness of Gaza is the best recruitment aid Hamas can have, so all we end up with is a cicle of violence.
But Isreal's blockade and heavy handedness of Gaza is the best recruitment aid Hamas can have, so all we end up with is a cicle of violence. PKH
  • Score: 7

10:55am Thu 7 Aug 14

mjgyork says...

The total destruction off the state of Israel has been the stated aim of neighbouring Arab states since is unilateral creation in 1947. Hamas/PLO (same thing) have never disavowed this ambition. When the other Arab states seemed more interested in slaughtering each other than Jews it left them to try on their own. Especially after successive wars in which they singularly failed in their genocidal ambitions.
God **** all religions!
The total destruction off the state of Israel has been the stated aim of neighbouring Arab states since is unilateral creation in 1947. Hamas/PLO (same thing) have never disavowed this ambition. When the other Arab states seemed more interested in slaughtering each other than Jews it left them to try on their own. Especially after successive wars in which they singularly failed in their genocidal ambitions. God **** all religions! mjgyork
  • Score: 3

12:20pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

mjgyork wrote:
The total destruction off the state of Israel has been the stated aim of neighbouring Arab states since is unilateral creation in 1947. Hamas/PLO (same thing) have never disavowed this ambition. When the other Arab states seemed more interested in slaughtering each other than Jews it left them to try on their own. Especially after successive wars in which they singularly failed in their genocidal ambitions.
God **** all religions!
Whilst I agree with the letter writer and much of what you say (not the bit about religion) I think you'll find Fatah (the PLO) and Hamas hate each other and it was Hamas that drove Fatah out of the Gaza Strip.

Fatah has recognised Israel's right to exist in the Oslo Accord, Hamas is committed to Israel's destruction.
[quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: The total destruction off the state of Israel has been the stated aim of neighbouring Arab states since is unilateral creation in 1947. Hamas/PLO (same thing) have never disavowed this ambition. When the other Arab states seemed more interested in slaughtering each other than Jews it left them to try on their own. Especially after successive wars in which they singularly failed in their genocidal ambitions. God **** all religions![/p][/quote]Whilst I agree with the letter writer and much of what you say (not the bit about religion) I think you'll find Fatah (the PLO) and Hamas hate each other and it was Hamas that drove Fatah out of the Gaza Strip. Fatah has recognised Israel's right to exist in the Oslo Accord, Hamas is committed to Israel's destruction. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 2

1:01pm Thu 7 Aug 14

julia brica says...

That would be the same Hamas that has roots in Iran and the full backing of the Mullas there.
That's were the rockets come from.
Open your eyes wider and see the fuller picture.
That would be the same Hamas that has roots in Iran and the full backing of the Mullas there. That's were the rockets come from. Open your eyes wider and see the fuller picture. julia brica
  • Score: 3

3:19pm Thu 7 Aug 14

old_geezer says...

I know the history, warts on both sides and all. Even so, if I were an Israeli, I would beg my government to stop the cycle of violence and offer to negotiate with Fatah and Hamas - how else is this ever going to end? Repression and "degrading Hamas infrastructure" certainly won't help. And didn't we eventually negotiate with every colonial liberation movement, right up to the Good Friday agreement, regardless of governmental posturing? (Even Maggie had a backdoor to the IRA)
I know the history, warts on both sides and all. Even so, if I were an Israeli, I would beg my government to stop the cycle of violence and offer to negotiate with Fatah and Hamas - how else is this ever going to end? Repression and "degrading Hamas infrastructure" certainly won't help. And didn't we eventually negotiate with every colonial liberation movement, right up to the Good Friday agreement, regardless of governmental posturing? (Even Maggie had a backdoor to the IRA) old_geezer
  • Score: 4

3:45pm Thu 7 Aug 14

ColdAsChristmas says...

Good letter Mrs S. It really is for the moderate people of Gaza, if they dare, to rid themselves of Hamas. If they want their Hamas rulers then what is happening is self inflicted.
As for the blockade, with it in place they still manage to import rockets, explosives and materials for tunnels instead of rebuilding
You won't have peace for either party while Hamas has influence in the region.
Good letter Mrs S. It really is for the moderate people of Gaza, if they dare, to rid themselves of Hamas. If they want their Hamas rulers then what is happening is self inflicted. As for the blockade, with it in place they still manage to import rockets, explosives and materials for tunnels instead of rebuilding You won't have peace for either party while Hamas has influence in the region. ColdAsChristmas
  • Score: 3

3:52pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Omega Point says...

"Just because there have been more casualties among the Palestinians than the Israelis does not mean the Israeli response is disproportionate"
Then I would like to hear another definition of the word. And no I do not support Hamas
"Just because there have been more casualties among the Palestinians than the Israelis does not mean the Israeli response is disproportionate" Then I would like to hear another definition of the word. And no I do not support Hamas Omega Point
  • Score: 2

4:10pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonothon says...

Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving
Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land.
If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation.
The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end
Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land. If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation. The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end Jonothon
  • Score: -2

4:58pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Thecynic says...

If Hamas really cared about it's innocent civilians? It would come to the International negotiating table and make serious efforts to calm the situation. Instead, what do they do? As soon as any agreed ceasefire ends, (and sometimes sooner) they start firing rockets into Israel again, leaving Israel no choice but to retaliate. Not the best way forward is it?

Sometimes in conflict, although it is always regrettable, civilians take the brunt of an opposing force in order for the the rulers of a Nation to see the consequences of their actions. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Tens of thousands of innocent civilians lost their lives before the tyranical Emperor realized that if he didn't agree to an unconditional surrender, then pretty soon he wouldn't have anyone left or any land left to rule over. The end result (though harsh in the loss of life) has meant a long lasting peace in the area.

I'm not advocating the use of Nuclear weapons here, but unless Hamass can control it's reaction and start meaningful International negotiations? Then maybe the next best thing is to ensure that they understand that if they carry on in this manner? pretty soon they will have no people or land left to govern.

In my opinion, any Government that uses it's civilian population as a shield for the launching of it's military weapons, doesn't deserve to be in power.
If Hamas really cared about it's innocent civilians? It would come to the International negotiating table and make serious efforts to calm the situation. Instead, what do they do? As soon as any agreed ceasefire ends, (and sometimes sooner) they start firing rockets into Israel again, leaving Israel no choice but to retaliate. Not the best way forward is it? Sometimes in conflict, although it is always regrettable, civilians take the brunt of an opposing force in order for the the rulers of a Nation to see the consequences of their actions. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Tens of thousands of innocent civilians lost their lives before the tyranical Emperor realized that if he didn't agree to an unconditional surrender, then pretty soon he wouldn't have anyone left or any land left to rule over. The end result (though harsh in the loss of life) has meant a long lasting peace in the area. I'm not advocating the use of Nuclear weapons here, but unless Hamass can control it's reaction and start meaningful International negotiations? Then maybe the next best thing is to ensure that they understand that if they carry on in this manner? pretty soon they will have no people or land left to govern. In my opinion, any Government that uses it's civilian population as a shield for the launching of it's military weapons, doesn't deserve to be in power. Thecynic
  • Score: 3

7:11pm Thu 7 Aug 14

gwen4me says...

I really don`t understand people who seek to justify the slaughter of thousands of people over the years because in desperation they elected Hamas. Apart from dismantling some illegal settlements in Gaza, Israel has made no concessions at all, indeed has deliberately targeted centres of population and UN refuges. The Serbs did the same thing and the West intervened.
I really don`t understand people who seek to justify the slaughter of thousands of people over the years because in desperation they elected Hamas. Apart from dismantling some illegal settlements in Gaza, Israel has made no concessions at all, indeed has deliberately targeted centres of population and UN refuges. The Serbs did the same thing and the West intervened. gwen4me
  • Score: -2

7:12pm Thu 7 Aug 14

julia brica says...

Jonothon wrote:
Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving
Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land.
If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation.
The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end
Defenceless ?
Rockets that can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and thousands of them being launched before this recent conflict.
Well Jonothan if that's defenceless Im a chinaman.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land. If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation. The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end[/p][/quote]Defenceless ? Rockets that can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and thousands of them being launched before this recent conflict. Well Jonothan if that's defenceless Im a chinaman. julia brica
  • Score: 0

8:20pm Thu 7 Aug 14

last of the mandms says...

The simple analogy is this if you force a hungry and thirsty animal (it's an analogy not a literal statement) into a very small cage eventually it will begin snarling at the bars. The tone many of you adopt make the Palestinians sound like a bunch of Islington pseudo intellectuals sat in some trendy coffee bar discussing which political party to vote for "I'm all for the Greens but it would be a disaster and possibly a tragedy if I loose my 4x4 etc etc " instead of what they are, terrified and desperate and despising their oppressors a little bit more every day. Anyone who cares to loose their blinkers and think will realise that most middle eastern terrorism follows a straight line to the Palestinian problem and that is bad and dangerous for all of us smug and sanctimonious westerners with our simplistic understanding and solutions to a complex issue. As for the idiotic idea that as many civilians (in Palestine) are Hammas sympathisers so they deserve all they get ( presumably the voting age in Gazza is three months) I don't believe even at the darkest moments of The Troubles anyone seriously suggested carpet bombing The Falls or Shankill Roads on the grounds that most of the residents were "sympathisers".
The simple analogy is this if you force a hungry and thirsty animal (it's an analogy not a literal statement) into a very small cage eventually it will begin snarling at the bars. The tone many of you adopt make the Palestinians sound like a bunch of Islington pseudo intellectuals sat in some trendy coffee bar discussing which political party to vote for "I'm all for the Greens but it would be a disaster and possibly a tragedy if I loose my 4x4 etc etc " instead of what they are, terrified and desperate and despising their oppressors a little bit more every day. Anyone who cares to loose their blinkers and think will realise that most middle eastern terrorism follows a straight line to the Palestinian problem and that is bad and dangerous for all of us smug and sanctimonious westerners with our simplistic understanding and solutions to a complex issue. As for the idiotic idea that as many civilians (in Palestine) are Hammas sympathisers so they deserve all they get ( presumably the voting age in Gazza is three months) I don't believe even at the darkest moments of The Troubles anyone seriously suggested carpet bombing The Falls or Shankill Roads on the grounds that most of the residents were "sympathisers". last of the mandms
  • Score: 3

8:34pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Jonothon wrote:
Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving
Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land.
If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation.
The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end
Looks to me like ISIS are using modern weapons against defenceless Christian civilians in Iraq but the Islamist supporters here in the UK don't say a word about it. You can guarantee the rent a mob with the Palestinian flags and loom bands won't be on the streets protesting about THAT this weekend.

Don't speak for me Jonothon, I'm not at all nauseated by Israel's actions, I'm nauseated by Hamas that forced Israel into doing this by constant rocket attacks against Israeli civilian targets. A dead Muslim child is just as much a tragedy as a dead Jewish child or a dead Christian child of course but the apologists for Muslim extremism only see things one way.

If Hamas want peace all they have to do is recognise Israel's right to exist and then sit down and talk with the Israelis and the PLO who control the West Bank. Until they do that they are the ones who will end up the losers. Israel isn't going anywhere and how long will it be before the Palestinians turn on Hamas? The people there aren't stupid, they are quite aware Hamas is a tool of Iran and they are just being used as pawns and shields
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land. If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation. The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end[/p][/quote]Looks to me like ISIS are using modern weapons against defenceless Christian civilians in Iraq but the Islamist supporters here in the UK don't say a word about it. You can guarantee the rent a mob with the Palestinian flags and loom bands won't be on the streets protesting about THAT this weekend. Don't speak for me Jonothon, I'm not at all nauseated by Israel's actions, I'm nauseated by Hamas that forced Israel into doing this by constant rocket attacks against Israeli civilian targets. A dead Muslim child is just as much a tragedy as a dead Jewish child or a dead Christian child of course but the apologists for Muslim extremism only see things one way. If Hamas want peace all they have to do is recognise Israel's right to exist and then sit down and talk with the Israelis and the PLO who control the West Bank. Until they do that they are the ones who will end up the losers. Israel isn't going anywhere and how long will it be before the Palestinians turn on Hamas? The people there aren't stupid, they are quite aware Hamas is a tool of Iran and they are just being used as pawns and shields Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 1

8:51pm Thu 7 Aug 14

wallman says...

take your blinkers off jonothon and gwen4me
take your blinkers off jonothon and gwen4me wallman
  • Score: 0

10:03pm Thu 7 Aug 14

gwen4me says...

wallman wrote:
take your blinkers off jonothon and gwen4me
Thank you for your enlightening encouragement.
[quote][p][bold]wallman[/bold] wrote: take your blinkers off jonothon and gwen4me[/p][/quote]Thank you for your enlightening encouragement. gwen4me
  • Score: 0

11:35am Fri 8 Aug 14

Jonothon says...

The YouGov poll putting support for Israel in the UK at 16% , (it's lowest ever level,) shows that the public now fully understand that Israel is a belligerent aggressor nation who has, since 1948 generated turmoil in the middle east, and may yet embroil us all in an international conflict, a terrifying prospect as Israel is in illegal possession of nuclear weapons and has shown that it has no compunction in inflicting maximum damage on civilian populations

The hope is that with increasing public understanding of the causes of the conflict, Israel will be obliged to abandon it's racist experiment with Zionism and become a state of all it's citizens living peacefully with it's neighbours in compliance with international law
The YouGov poll putting support for Israel in the UK at 16% , (it's lowest ever level,) shows that the public now fully understand that Israel is a belligerent aggressor nation who has, since 1948 generated turmoil in the middle east, and may yet embroil us all in an international conflict, a terrifying prospect as Israel is in illegal possession of nuclear weapons and has shown that it has no compunction in inflicting maximum damage on civilian populations The hope is that with increasing public understanding of the causes of the conflict, Israel will be obliged to abandon it's racist experiment with Zionism and become a state of all it's citizens living peacefully with it's neighbours in compliance with international law Jonothon
  • Score: 1

1:32pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Jonothon says...

julia brica wrote:
Jonothon wrote:
Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving
Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land.
If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation.
The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end
Defenceless ?
Rockets that can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and thousands of them being launched before this recent conflict.
Well Jonothan if that's defenceless Im a chinaman.
You're not a chinaman, you are an architect of this parish
[quote][p][bold]julia brica[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: Interesting to wonder what Mrs Summerfield would have said If the figures had been the other way round and it was the parents of 430 Israeli children who are grieving Most armies fight other armies, but Israel uses modern battlefield weapons against a mostly defenceless population. !800 Palestinians dead, but we are told that it is Hamas who are terrorists. The Palestinians are "required" to protect the security of their oppressors and those who mount an illegal siege on their land. If Israel wants peace, which I doubt, the first requirements must be compliance with international law and the ending of child torture, war crimes and Illegal occupation. The alternative is clear. The world is nauseated by Israel's carnage what support they had has evaporated, and the occupier always loses in the end[/p][/quote]Defenceless ? Rockets that can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and thousands of them being launched before this recent conflict. Well Jonothan if that's defenceless Im a chinaman.[/p][/quote]You're not a chinaman, you are an architect of this parish Jonothon
  • Score: 1

10:30pm Sat 9 Aug 14

notpedallingpaul says...

Jonothon and gwen4me - I have been following this ongoing debate with interest, but can I ask a simple question of you both, do you support what Hamas is doing?, and their avowed intention to destroy the Jewish state, a simple yes or no would suffice please.
Jonothon and gwen4me - I have been following this ongoing debate with interest, but can I ask a simple question of you both, do you support what Hamas is doing?, and their avowed intention to destroy the Jewish state, a simple yes or no would suffice please. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: 0

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