Use of force condemns both sides

Use of force condemns both sides

Use of force condemns both sides

First published in Letters by

THE wrongfulness of many Israeli practices, such as the repression of the Palestinians through building for Israeli habitation on the other state’s land, cannot be justified.

Nor can the constant checking and delays at state borders be acceptable.

And the sadness and honour of any killing of anyone, anywhere, at any time, must be strongly condemned.

However, it would be wrong not to condemn, equally, both the Israelis and the Palestinians for using force, including military force, against each other.

No matter what the provocation, the use of violence is utterly wrong. Furthermore, violence begets violence so, in reality, perpetuates the killing, maiming and injuring of people.

There is no justification for either the Israelis or the Palestinians hitting back violently in order to either seek revenge or to keep their people ‘safe’, as it is morally wrong to do so.

The only positive way forward is to negotiate and renegotiate until peaceful co-existence is achieved.

Then it will be essential to work hard to keep and promote peacefulness and better understanding of all concerned.

As long ago as 1667, Quaker Isaac Penington wrote: “Our life is love and peace and tenderness; and bearing one with another, and forgiving one another, but playing one for another and helping one another up with a tender hand.”

Janet Rowntree, Escrick, York.

Comments (28)

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9:29am Mon 21 Jul 14

old_geezer says...

For a thoughtful view from an Israeli see http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=etXAm-Oyl
QQ
For a thoughtful view from an Israeli see http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=etXAm-Oyl QQ old_geezer
  • Score: -1

9:41am Mon 21 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

The writer condemns both sides equally. But they are not equal.
On one side is a nuclear power, the worlds forth most militarised state. on the other side is one of the over overcrowded and oppressed people on earth.
Israel is not attacking an army, Palestine has no army. It is attacking a civilian population. It would make as much sense to say that the victim should be condemned as loudly as the mugger.
The writer, who may be a Quaker says that violence is wrong whatever the provocation. This is one persons opinion, but that does not make it a fact. If Israel claims the right to defend itself, so have the people of Gaza.

Illegally occupied populations have the right and duty to fight their oppressors. The heroes of the French resistance were right to sabotage the Nazi war efforts in occupied France. They were not criminals, and at the end of the war they were given medals in recognition of their bravery.
When Israel talks of peace, it means a peaceful occupation. The right to oppress the Palestinians without any resistance from their victims.

The way forward is clear, Israel must end the illegal occupation of Palestine and return the settlements to their rightful owners
The writer condemns both sides equally. But they are not equal. On one side is a nuclear power, the worlds forth most militarised state. on the other side is one of the over overcrowded and oppressed people on earth. Israel is not attacking an army, Palestine has no army. It is attacking a civilian population. It would make as much sense to say that the victim should be condemned as loudly as the mugger. The writer, who may be a Quaker says that violence is wrong whatever the provocation. This is one persons opinion, but that does not make it a fact. If Israel claims the right to defend itself, so have the people of Gaza. Illegally occupied populations have the right and duty to fight their oppressors. The heroes of the French resistance were right to sabotage the Nazi war efforts in occupied France. They were not criminals, and at the end of the war they were given medals in recognition of their bravery. When Israel talks of peace, it means a peaceful occupation. The right to oppress the Palestinians without any resistance from their victims. The way forward is clear, Israel must end the illegal occupation of Palestine and return the settlements to their rightful owners Jonothon
  • Score: 2

11:45am Mon 21 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Jonothon wrote:
The writer condemns both sides equally. But they are not equal.
On one side is a nuclear power, the worlds forth most militarised state. on the other side is one of the over overcrowded and oppressed people on earth.
Israel is not attacking an army, Palestine has no army. It is attacking a civilian population. It would make as much sense to say that the victim should be condemned as loudly as the mugger.
The writer, who may be a Quaker says that violence is wrong whatever the provocation. This is one persons opinion, but that does not make it a fact. If Israel claims the right to defend itself, so have the people of Gaza.

Illegally occupied populations have the right and duty to fight their oppressors. The heroes of the French resistance were right to sabotage the Nazi war efforts in occupied France. They were not criminals, and at the end of the war they were given medals in recognition of their bravery.
When Israel talks of peace, it means a peaceful occupation. The right to oppress the Palestinians without any resistance from their victims.

The way forward is clear, Israel must end the illegal occupation of Palestine and return the settlements to their rightful owners
Yet again you conveniently forget the stated aim of Hamas which is to exterminate Israel, the constant rocket bombardment from the Palestinian side of the divide targeting civilian areas and the recent murder of the 3 Jewish young people, almost certainly by Hamas. The comparison of Israel to the Nazis is a simple slur and tell me has Israel change its position after the antics of various rent a mobs last weekend? I hope they wipe Hamas off the face of the earth, in the long run that would help the Palestinians too.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: The writer condemns both sides equally. But they are not equal. On one side is a nuclear power, the worlds forth most militarised state. on the other side is one of the over overcrowded and oppressed people on earth. Israel is not attacking an army, Palestine has no army. It is attacking a civilian population. It would make as much sense to say that the victim should be condemned as loudly as the mugger. The writer, who may be a Quaker says that violence is wrong whatever the provocation. This is one persons opinion, but that does not make it a fact. If Israel claims the right to defend itself, so have the people of Gaza. Illegally occupied populations have the right and duty to fight their oppressors. The heroes of the French resistance were right to sabotage the Nazi war efforts in occupied France. They were not criminals, and at the end of the war they were given medals in recognition of their bravery. When Israel talks of peace, it means a peaceful occupation. The right to oppress the Palestinians without any resistance from their victims. The way forward is clear, Israel must end the illegal occupation of Palestine and return the settlements to their rightful owners[/p][/quote]Yet again you conveniently forget the stated aim of Hamas which is to exterminate Israel, the constant rocket bombardment from the Palestinian side of the divide targeting civilian areas and the recent murder of the 3 Jewish young people, almost certainly by Hamas. The comparison of Israel to the Nazis is a simple slur and tell me has Israel change its position after the antics of various rent a mobs last weekend? I hope they wipe Hamas off the face of the earth, in the long run that would help the Palestinians too. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -4

12:02pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Pinza-C55 says...

Palestine letters appear to have replaced Lendal Bridge letters in the Press?
Palestine letters appear to have replaced Lendal Bridge letters in the Press? Pinza-C55
  • Score: -1

12:03pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Davidka says...

Jonothon conveniently forgets that the areas he talks about were always a part of someone else's empire. The West Bank was under Jordanian occupation from 1948-1967. Before that, it was under British rule. Before that Ottoman rule going right back to 1516. Before that, countless others such as the Mameluks, Crusaders, Saracens, Byzantines, Romans, Greeks etc. The area in question should now be used to provide a stable independent homeland for the Palestinian Arabs but only as part of a comprehensive peace agreement where both Jews and Arabs can finally live the lives so many outside that region take for granted and violence finally gives way to peaceful co-existence.
Jonothon conveniently forgets that the areas he talks about were always a part of someone else's empire. The West Bank was under Jordanian occupation from 1948-1967. Before that, it was under British rule. Before that Ottoman rule going right back to 1516. Before that, countless others such as the Mameluks, Crusaders, Saracens, Byzantines, Romans, Greeks etc. The area in question should now be used to provide a stable independent homeland for the Palestinian Arabs but only as part of a comprehensive peace agreement where both Jews and Arabs can finally live the lives so many outside that region take for granted and violence finally gives way to peaceful co-existence. Davidka
  • Score: -1

12:09pm Mon 21 Jul 14

old_geezer says...

Emperor: if I were an Israeli, I'd beg my government to stop this. Ever since the Six Day War in 1967, trying to put down the Palestinians has resulted only in a spiral of violence. Trying to "wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" is futile, its future support is growing up now amid and fostered by Israeli dominance (no, that doesn't excuse Hamas terrorism, but explains its inevitability). Okay, what would I do? Offer a single state with Arabs and Jews as citizens with equal rights. It worked in South Africa, for all its current problems.
Emperor: if I were an Israeli, I'd beg my government to stop this. Ever since the Six Day War in 1967, trying to put down the Palestinians has resulted only in a spiral of violence. Trying to "wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" is futile, its future support is growing up now amid and fostered by Israeli dominance (no, that doesn't excuse Hamas terrorism, but explains its inevitability). Okay, what would I do? Offer a single state with Arabs and Jews as citizens with equal rights. It worked in South Africa, for all its current problems. old_geezer
  • Score: 8

12:57pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

old_geezer wrote:
Emperor: if I were an Israeli, I'd beg my government to stop this. Ever since the Six Day War in 1967, trying to put down the Palestinians has resulted only in a spiral of violence. Trying to "wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" is futile, its future support is growing up now amid and fostered by Israeli dominance (no, that doesn't excuse Hamas terrorism, but explains its inevitability). Okay, what would I do? Offer a single state with Arabs and Jews as citizens with equal rights. It worked in South Africa, for all its current problems.
Arabs have citizenship in Israel already though I doubt many view themselves as Israeli. We failed to finish off Saddam Hussein the first time and had to come back a second time to finish the job, costing more lives. You may or may not feel that particular war was justified but the principle is the same, once a war has started it has to be fought to its conclusion or you may well have to go back and fight it again. Israel is surrounded by enemies and always has been, I don't think they have any fear of being lectured to by the West or of its International War Crimes Tribunal, no Israeli commander is going to find himself sat in The Hague. They will do what needs to be done and if Palestinians die of course that is terrible but the blame lies with Hamas and their constant rocket attacks and using Palestinian civilians as a human shield.

How can you ever make peace with somebody who wants you exterminated and has sworn to do it? If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants. Then, and only then, could I sit down with the Palestinians and talk about a permanent end to the violence with peace and justice for everyone in the region, not just Israelis.
[quote][p][bold]old_geezer[/bold] wrote: Emperor: if I were an Israeli, I'd beg my government to stop this. Ever since the Six Day War in 1967, trying to put down the Palestinians has resulted only in a spiral of violence. Trying to "wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" is futile, its future support is growing up now amid and fostered by Israeli dominance (no, that doesn't excuse Hamas terrorism, but explains its inevitability). Okay, what would I do? Offer a single state with Arabs and Jews as citizens with equal rights. It worked in South Africa, for all its current problems.[/p][/quote]Arabs have citizenship in Israel already though I doubt many view themselves as Israeli. We failed to finish off Saddam Hussein the first time and had to come back a second time to finish the job, costing more lives. You may or may not feel that particular war was justified but the principle is the same, once a war has started it has to be fought to its conclusion or you may well have to go back and fight it again. Israel is surrounded by enemies and always has been, I don't think they have any fear of being lectured to by the West or of its International War Crimes Tribunal, no Israeli commander is going to find himself sat in The Hague. They will do what needs to be done and if Palestinians die of course that is terrible but the blame lies with Hamas and their constant rocket attacks and using Palestinian civilians as a human shield. How can you ever make peace with somebody who wants you exterminated and has sworn to do it? If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants. Then, and only then, could I sit down with the Palestinians and talk about a permanent end to the violence with peace and justice for everyone in the region, not just Israelis. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -8

5:42pm Mon 21 Jul 14

gwen4me says...

"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner. The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less."

So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants."

The man is a Nazi.
"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner.[7] The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less." So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants." The man is a Nazi. gwen4me
  • Score: 1

6:52pm Mon 21 Jul 14

wallman says...

and you gwen4me are a bigot
and you gwen4me are a bigot wallman
  • Score: -4

8:34pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

The emperor Palatine does Israel no service. The incessant racism of the Israeli state and the obscene occupation and the slaughter in Gaza is destroying Israel from within. A true friend of Israel would plead for a commitment to international law before it becomes, like Apartheid south Africa, a pariah state, doomed to fail. The Emperor Palatine instead applauds the murderous impulse which will surely stop the Zionist racist experiment dead in its tracks
And it is not just my view. Israel's leading author, Amos Oz, talking of the settler movement says this (pasted from the Jewish Chronicle May 12th 2014)
"We need to look this monster in the eye and call it by its true name," said Mr Oz. "We wanted to be like all other peoples. We had hoped that the day would arrive in which there would be a Hebrew thief and a Hebrew whore. We also have Hebrew neo-Nazi groups. There is nothing that the modern-day neo-Nazis in Europe do that those groups don't do here.

Then today I read the facebook posting by MK Ayla Shaked, calling for the massacre of Palestinian mothers
Aylet Shaked, a Knesset member for the Racist Jewish Home Party. This is what she hopes for

"they are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

This vile racism will corrupt and destroy Israel from within. Space precludes a report on the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement, born out of the revulsion of Israels slaughter in Gaza in 2008/9 when 1400 were killed including 300 children, a nightmare scenario that is being played out again by the berserker Israeli state.
The Boycott Israel movement is now escalating faster even than
against Apartheid S. Africa. Attitudes like those of the Emperor Palatine will fuel that movement. For that we should be grateful to him
The emperor Palatine does Israel no service. The incessant racism of the Israeli state and the obscene occupation and the slaughter in Gaza is destroying Israel from within. A true friend of Israel would plead for a commitment to international law before it becomes, like Apartheid south Africa, a pariah state, doomed to fail. The Emperor Palatine instead applauds the murderous impulse which will surely stop the Zionist racist experiment dead in its tracks And it is not just my view. Israel's leading author, Amos Oz, talking of the settler movement says this (pasted from the Jewish Chronicle May 12th 2014) "We need to look this monster in the eye and call it by its true name," said Mr Oz. "We wanted to be like all other peoples. We had hoped that the day would arrive in which there would be a Hebrew thief and a Hebrew whore. We also have Hebrew neo-Nazi groups. There is nothing that the modern-day neo-Nazis in Europe do that those groups don't do here. Then today I read the facebook posting by MK Ayla Shaked, calling for the massacre of Palestinian mothers Aylet Shaked, a Knesset member for the Racist Jewish Home Party. This is what she hopes for "they are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there." This vile racism will corrupt and destroy Israel from within. Space precludes a report on the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement, born out of the revulsion of Israels slaughter in Gaza in 2008/9 when 1400 were killed including 300 children, a nightmare scenario that is being played out again by the berserker Israeli state. The Boycott Israel movement is now escalating faster even than against Apartheid S. Africa. Attitudes like those of the Emperor Palatine will fuel that movement. For that we should be grateful to him Jonothon
  • Score: -1

11:42pm Mon 21 Jul 14

wallman says...

jonothon another bigot
jonothon another bigot wallman
  • Score: -3

11:42pm Mon 21 Jul 14

wallman says...

jonothon another bigot
jonothon another bigot wallman
  • Score: -3

12:00am Tue 22 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

gwen4me wrote:
"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner. The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less."

So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants."

The man is a Nazi.
Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not.

Long live the State of Israel.
[quote][p][bold]gwen4me[/bold] wrote: "Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner.[7] The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less." So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants." The man is a Nazi.[/p][/quote]Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not. Long live the State of Israel. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -5

8:30am Tue 22 Jul 14

Davidka says...

Jonothon, Amos Oz also said: “Hamas still maintains that a total Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories is phase one, phase two would be the disappearance of the state of Israel.”

I think we all want the same thing. An end to mindless violence but this never-ending conflict is testing and has tested better brains than ours.
Jonothon, Amos Oz also said: “Hamas still maintains that a total Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories is phase one, phase two would be the disappearance of the state of Israel.” I think we all want the same thing. An end to mindless violence but this never-ending conflict is testing and has tested better brains than ours. Davidka
  • Score: 0

11:23am Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

Emperor Palpatine wrote:
gwen4me wrote:
"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner. The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less."

So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants."

The man is a Nazi.
Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not.

Long live the State of Israel.
Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements

And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing.
[quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gwen4me[/bold] wrote: "Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner.[7] The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less." So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants." The man is a Nazi.[/p][/quote]Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not. Long live the State of Israel.[/p][/quote]Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing. Jonothon
  • Score: -2

11:42am Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

Jonothon wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
gwen4me wrote:
"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner. The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less."

So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants."

The man is a Nazi.
Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not.

Long live the State of Israel.
Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements

And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing.
Sorry about the poor grammar.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gwen4me[/bold] wrote: "Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner.[7] The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less." So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants." The man is a Nazi.[/p][/quote]Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not. Long live the State of Israel.[/p][/quote]Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing.[/p][/quote]Sorry about the poor grammar. Jonothon
  • Score: -1

12:04pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Jonothon wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
gwen4me wrote:
"Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner. The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less."

So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants."

The man is a Nazi.
Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not.

Long live the State of Israel.
Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements

And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing.
The Jewish people lost 6 million souls during the Holocaust at the hands of the Nazis. If you can not see why describing their State as a bunch of Nazis is offensive after that then there really is no hope for you is there. Just because one Jewish intellectual uses the term that doesn't make it right.

I don't see any of the "useful idiots" who support Islamic extremists such as Hamas saying a word about their racist policy which calls for Israel's destruction, let alone the persecution of Christians by ISIS.

Israel has every right to defend itself, the Hamas extremists brought it on themselves. I am as sorry as anyone that civilians are dying but the blame lays with Hamas.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gwen4me[/bold] wrote: "Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993, days before the signing of the Oslo I Accord, both parties declared to accept each other as negotiation partner.[7] The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less." So Emperer Palpatine denies the facts, he also states " If I was an Israeli citizen I would want my commanders to kill them all, every last one before they kill me, my family or my descendants." The man is a Nazi.[/p][/quote]Setting aside the offensive use of the word Nazi when referring to Israel I'd rather be one of those than a "useful idiot" for Islamists. You support Hamas, that much is obvious and Hamas wants the Jewish state wiped out. I only see one Nazi here and that's you. Will you be protesting as loudly about the ISIS persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq? No, I thought not. Long live the State of Israel.[/p][/quote]Emperor, Why is the word Nazi inappropriate when addressed to Israel but OK when directed at me? Please justify that bit of racism., whilst bearing in mind that the quote is not mine, it was Amos Oz who is not only a Jew, but an Israeli citizen, one who realises that the revolting racist espoused by Ayla Shaked and others will lead to the end of the Zionist experiment. You emperor is of the same ilk and have chosen not to disassociate himself from her repulsive statements And Davidka, your Hamas quote may be right, I have not checked. I too oppose the state if Israel as a Jewish State, just as I would oppose Britain as a Christian state. However I would be totally supportive of an Israel which was a democratic state of all its citizens, including the oppressed 20% of Palestinians who remained after the ethnic cleansing.[/p][/quote]The Jewish people lost 6 million souls during the Holocaust at the hands of the Nazis. If you can not see why describing their State as a bunch of Nazis is offensive after that then there really is no hope for you is there. Just because one Jewish intellectual uses the term that doesn't make it right. I don't see any of the "useful idiots" who support Islamic extremists such as Hamas saying a word about their racist policy which calls for Israel's destruction, let alone the persecution of Christians by ISIS. Israel has every right to defend itself, the Hamas extremists brought it on themselves. I am as sorry as anyone that civilians are dying but the blame lays with Hamas. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -2

12:09pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

BTW Jonothon it was Gwen4me who called me a Nazi so I'm a little puzzled about your comment. If she wants to see some real Nazi handiwork I suggest a trip to Auschwitz Birkenau. The deaths in Gaza are deeply regrettable but to compare that with the Holocaust is ludicrous and warped.
BTW Jonothon it was Gwen4me who called me a Nazi so I'm a little puzzled about your comment. If she wants to see some real Nazi handiwork I suggest a trip to Auschwitz Birkenau. The deaths in Gaza are deeply regrettable but to compare that with the Holocaust is ludicrous and warped. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -1

12:50pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

This Israeli racist obscenity is reproduced from today's issue of the respected Israeli daily Haaretz

Israeli professor's 'rape as terror deterrent' statement draws ire
'The only thing that deters a suicide bomber is the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped,' says Bar-Ilan University professor.
“The only thing that can deter terrorists, like those who kidnapped the children and killed them, is the knowledge that their sister or their mother will be raped.” This assertion was made by Middle East scholar Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University about three weeks ago on an Israel Radio program. “It sounds very bad, but that’s the Middle East,” added Kedar, of Bar-Ilan’s Department...

http://www.haaretz.c
om/news/national/.pr
emium-1.606542
This Israeli racist obscenity is reproduced from today's issue of the respected Israeli daily Haaretz Israeli professor's 'rape as terror deterrent' statement draws ire 'The only thing that deters a suicide bomber is the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped,' says Bar-Ilan University professor. “The only thing that can deter terrorists, like those who kidnapped the children and killed them, is the knowledge that their sister or their mother will be raped.” This assertion was made by Middle East scholar Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University about three weeks ago on an Israel Radio program. “It sounds very bad, but that’s the Middle East,” added Kedar, of Bar-Ilan’s Department... http://www.haaretz.c om/news/national/.pr emium-1.606542 Jonothon
  • Score: -1

1:33pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Davidka says...

Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.
Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel. Davidka
  • Score: -2

2:08pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

Davidka wrote:
Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.
I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed.

The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war)
This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation.

Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.
[quote][p][bold]Davidka[/bold] wrote: Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.[/p][/quote]I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed. The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war) This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation. Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit. Jonothon
  • Score: 1

3:38pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Davidka says...

If you want examples of racism, look over the borders from Israel Jonothon. You comments are symbolic of a mindless but vociferous minority who wish to single Israel out from all other countries in the world and hold it to account in a way you would not apply to countries with much worse records.
If you want examples of racism, look over the borders from Israel Jonothon. You comments are symbolic of a mindless but vociferous minority who wish to single Israel out from all other countries in the world and hold it to account in a way you would not apply to countries with much worse records. Davidka
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

Davidka wrote:
If you want examples of racism, look over the borders from Israel Jonothon. You comments are symbolic of a mindless but vociferous minority who wish to single Israel out from all other countries in the world and hold it to account in a way you would not apply to countries with much worse records.
Israel singles itself out with it's claim to be a democracy and to have the most ethical army in the world. The reality is a country drowning in a tsunami of race hate, directed not just against the Palestinians, but against the Ethiopian Falasha jews because they are black. Most of all the incessant bigotry and hatred against the Palestinian Israelis who are treated as racial inferiors in their own homeland, leave aside the crimes in the West Bank and Gaza
If you want a clear example of it, google "Prawer Plan" Israel's plan, currently under way, to ethnically cleanse up to 70,000 Bedouin from their acestral home in the Negev, and to hand the land to the Israeli army and settlers.
The Bedouin are Israeli citizens, just (as one general said) "the wrong kind of Israeli"
[quote][p][bold]Davidka[/bold] wrote: If you want examples of racism, look over the borders from Israel Jonothon. You comments are symbolic of a mindless but vociferous minority who wish to single Israel out from all other countries in the world and hold it to account in a way you would not apply to countries with much worse records.[/p][/quote]Israel singles itself out with it's claim to be a democracy and to have the most ethical army in the world. The reality is a country drowning in a tsunami of race hate, directed not just against the Palestinians, but against the Ethiopian Falasha jews because they are black. Most of all the incessant bigotry and hatred against the Palestinian Israelis who are treated as racial inferiors in their own homeland, leave aside the crimes in the West Bank and Gaza If you want a clear example of it, google "Prawer Plan" Israel's plan, currently under way, to ethnically cleanse up to 70,000 Bedouin from their acestral home in the Negev, and to hand the land to the Israeli army and settlers. The Bedouin are Israeli citizens, just (as one general said) "the wrong kind of Israeli" Jonothon
  • Score: 2

4:41pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Davidka says...

Keep spitting it out Jonothon. We can all see what you are.
Keep spitting it out Jonothon. We can all see what you are. Davidka
  • Score: 0

5:11pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Jonothon wrote:
Davidka wrote:
Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.
I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed.

The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war)
This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation.

Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.
You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidka[/bold] wrote: Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.[/p][/quote]I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed. The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war) This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation. Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.[/p][/quote]You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -4

6:35pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jonothon says...

Emperor Palpatine wrote:
Jonothon wrote:
Davidka wrote:
Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.
I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed.

The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war)
This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation.

Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.
You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself.
I condemn the all murder of Christians by Moslems, Moslems by Christians and all racism including anti-semitism and the racism of the Israeli state.
Any anti racist would append their name to that.
I suspect, Emperor, that you won't sign up to this, in which case we know what you are and this exchange is at an end.
[quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidka[/bold] wrote: Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.[/p][/quote]I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed. The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war) This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation. Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.[/p][/quote]You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself.[/p][/quote]I condemn the all murder of Christians by Moslems, Moslems by Christians and all racism including anti-semitism and the racism of the Israeli state. Any anti racist would append their name to that. I suspect, Emperor, that you won't sign up to this, in which case we know what you are and this exchange is at an end. Jonothon
  • Score: 3

7:24pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Jonothon wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
Jonothon wrote:
Davidka wrote:
Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.
I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed.

The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war)
This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation.

Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.
You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself.
I condemn the all murder of Christians by Moslems, Moslems by Christians and all racism including anti-semitism and the racism of the Israeli state.
Any anti racist would append their name to that.
I suspect, Emperor, that you won't sign up to this, in which case we know what you are and this exchange is at an end.
You've spent so much time spitting anti Semetic bile I simply don't believe you so yes this exchange is at an end.
[quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonothon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidka[/bold] wrote: Grow up Jonothon. The Arabs have accused the IDF of many things over the years, but even they have not accused them of rape....to date. Israel is no more or no less racist than the UK or dare I say it, yourself. There are idiots in the UK and guess what? There are idiots like Kedar in Israel.[/p][/quote]I'm grown up, Davidka, over 60, and for the Emperors benefit I have visited Auschwitz, scenes of European crimes against humanity, nothing to do with the Palestinians whose land is stolen and ethnically cleansed. The racist mindset of Keder (see my posting above calling for the introduction of rape as a weapon of war) This was from a professor at Bar-Ilan, not the University janitor. This is the climate of fascism in which Israeli students are submersed before going into the community and the Israeli army of occupation. Routine racism pervades Israeli society root and branch, religious and secular. It is the fount of the brutal occupation and their crimes against humanity. I have endless examples, and I encounter it every time I visit.[/p][/quote]You may have visited Auschwitz Birkenau but you don't appear to have learned anything. You equate the deportation to the east of 6 million Jews for slave labour and extermination with what's going on in Gaza? Are you for real? Or just another anti Semite? I'm still awaiting your answer. Why are you not condemning Hamas rocket attacks, the murder of those Jewish youngsters or the persecution of Christians by ISIS? I don't see Islam's "useful idiots" making any fuss over that. Too busy pillorying Israel for having the guts to stand up for itself.[/p][/quote]I condemn the all murder of Christians by Moslems, Moslems by Christians and all racism including anti-semitism and the racism of the Israeli state. Any anti racist would append their name to that. I suspect, Emperor, that you won't sign up to this, in which case we know what you are and this exchange is at an end.[/p][/quote]You've spent so much time spitting anti Semetic bile I simply don't believe you so yes this exchange is at an end. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: -4

5:26pm Wed 23 Jul 14

segaran says...

The definition of lunacy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

Isreal's lunacy is fighting legitmate claims with extreme violence time and time again, in Lebanon and now in the Gaza strip.

Isreal has absolutely no intention of giving up land occupied in the 1967 conflict. Morover it builds settlements on these lands in violation of International Law. If Isreal wants a different result (ie a lasting peace) perhaps it needs to try another way.
The definition of lunacy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Isreal's lunacy is fighting legitmate claims with extreme violence time and time again, in Lebanon and now in the Gaza strip. Isreal has absolutely no intention of giving up land occupied in the 1967 conflict. Morover it builds settlements on these lands in violation of International Law. If Isreal wants a different result (ie a lasting peace) perhaps it needs to try another way. segaran
  • Score: 1

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