Losing the plot

York Press: Losing the plot Losing the plot

HAVING had cause to drop my granddaughter off at York Station, I left home at 8.30am and got there just in time at 9.30am.

As someone who has lived in York for all of my 60 years, I then had to plot a route to collect my grandson in Strensall. After toiling through horrendous traffic and collecting him, I finally arrived back home at 11am.

The previous day I had been in Chester, which took less time than the two-plus hours I spent running around York.

I had a lot less stress of being stuck in traffic, which not only raises my blood pressure but also my carbon footprint with the fuel used stop-starting.

How tourists not knowing the city plot the best route is beyond comprehension.

Peter Cookland, Worcester Drive, York.

Comments (14)

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4:15pm Mon 10 Feb 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I bet you felt like you had done ten rounds with the school bully.
It would seem that is exactly how the council want you to feel. You see it encourages you to think about alternative forms of transport. These days congestion is not caused by volume of traffic. The council say there is less volume of traffic now than in 2002!! So they have to organise the congestion now with their special traffic light sequencing and more of them, closing roads, and taking out carriageway space with bus & cycle lanes.
They do say bullying leaves you feeling as you describe.

As for your carbon footprint don't worry about it, the council don't. They say that in the period they have spent introducing the above measure (since 2006) they have increased pollution by up to 48% with no increase in the volume of traffic at all. Now that takes some effort!
I bet you felt like you had done ten rounds with the school bully. It would seem that is exactly how the council want you to feel. You see it encourages you to think about alternative forms of transport. These days congestion is not caused by volume of traffic. The council say there is less volume of traffic now than in 2002!! So they have to organise the congestion now with their special traffic light sequencing and more of them, closing roads, and taking out carriageway space with bus & cycle lanes. They do say bullying leaves you feeling as you describe. As for your carbon footprint don't worry about it, the council don't. They say that in the period they have spent introducing the above measure (since 2006) they have increased pollution by up to 48% with no increase in the volume of traffic at all. Now that takes some effort! strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -28

4:16pm Mon 10 Feb 14

pedalling paul says...

Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of.
Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of. pedalling paul
  • Score: 10

5:17pm Mon 10 Feb 14

ColdAsChristmas says...

Good letter, hits the point and shows CoYC up for what they are and that does not amount to much.
Good letter, hits the point and shows CoYC up for what they are and that does not amount to much. ColdAsChristmas
  • Score: -37

6:37pm Mon 10 Feb 14

anth!! says...

Move to Chester then.
Move to Chester then. anth!!
  • Score: 7

6:38pm Mon 10 Feb 14

The OX says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of.
You are a FOOL it would have taken ALL day with York buses, We pay road TAX to use YES you got it THE ROAD,
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of.[/p][/quote]You are a FOOL it would have taken ALL day with York buses, We pay road TAX to use YES you got it THE ROAD, The OX
  • Score: -33

7:24pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Jonthan says...

I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars.

He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads.
I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars. He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads. Jonthan
  • Score: 13

7:48pm Mon 10 Feb 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Jonthan wrote:
I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars.

He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads.
Why then are the council saying there is a lot less volume of traffic now than in 2002?. If Peter had seen that information then he would not draw the conclusion which you elude to as it would seem incorrect.
Peter may need to look somewhere else for his answers as do other York residents.
Google earth, which Paul points towards, gives a clue when you see the vast expanse of main roads in York devoid of any moving traffic the only place you see substantial traffic is at the council made congestion points and even most of that is not moving. Then on top of that there are all the closed roads.
Chester also has something York does not have. A complete inner ring road which does not seem to have an expensive toll booth on it.
[quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars. He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads.[/p][/quote]Why then are the council saying there is a lot less volume of traffic now than in 2002?. If Peter had seen that information then he would not draw the conclusion which you elude to as it would seem incorrect. Peter may need to look somewhere else for his answers as do other York residents. Google earth, which Paul points towards, gives a clue when you see the vast expanse of main roads in York devoid of any moving traffic the only place you see substantial traffic is at the council made congestion points and even most of that is not moving. Then on top of that there are all the closed roads. Chester also has something York does not have. A complete inner ring road which does not seem to have an expensive toll booth on it. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -9

8:38pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Red Star says...

What do people really expect? It's primarily a Medieval city with an expanding 21st century population. You wouldn't want it any other way. Fly away Peter, fly away Paul.
What do people really expect? It's primarily a Medieval city with an expanding 21st century population. You wouldn't want it any other way. Fly away Peter, fly away Paul. Red Star
  • Score: 9

10:45pm Mon 10 Feb 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I see the score adjusters are being more subtle now. They have not even given PP a positive score but have completely reversed all other scores on here. Shame for them they took so long to wake up to how silly they were being or we could have been fooled into believing that the people of York support the strange thinking of the council.
I see the score adjusters are being more subtle now. They have not even given PP a positive score but have completely reversed all other scores on here. Shame for them they took so long to wake up to how silly they were being or we could have been fooled into believing that the people of York support the strange thinking of the council. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -27

1:35pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Lunatic says...

I regularly drive around along the same routes and I've yet to encounter any significant increase in journey times. Rush hour seems to take just as long as it always has, and the journeys I make in the interim are five minutes longer at most.

Where is all this gridlock?
I regularly drive around along the same routes and I've yet to encounter any significant increase in journey times. Rush hour seems to take just as long as it always has, and the journeys I make in the interim are five minutes longer at most. Where is all this gridlock? Lunatic
  • Score: 6

2:51pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Tug job says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
Jonthan wrote: I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars. He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads.
Why then are the council saying there is a lot less volume of traffic now than in 2002?. If Peter had seen that information then he would not draw the conclusion which you elude to as it would seem incorrect. Peter may need to look somewhere else for his answers as do other York residents. Google earth, which Paul points towards, gives a clue when you see the vast expanse of main roads in York devoid of any moving traffic the only place you see substantial traffic is at the council made congestion points and even most of that is not moving. Then on top of that there are all the closed roads. Chester also has something York does not have. A complete inner ring road which does not seem to have an expensive toll booth on it.
Jonathan is 'alluding' to something, not 'eluding' to it.

York would have had its complete inner ring road in the 1970s was it not for the efforts of York2000, which successfully stopped these plans. Pehaps, with the benefit of hindsight, the city would have been better off?
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: I don't really find it surprising that a journey in peak rush hour took a long time, but Peter Cookland fails to draw the obvious conclusion that his delay was generated by the volume of traffic and that the answer is to encourage people to get out of their cars. He goes on to tell us that he got around more speedily in Chester, a city with 40% smaller population than York, and hence a lot less vehicles on the roads.[/p][/quote]Why then are the council saying there is a lot less volume of traffic now than in 2002?. If Peter had seen that information then he would not draw the conclusion which you elude to as it would seem incorrect. Peter may need to look somewhere else for his answers as do other York residents. Google earth, which Paul points towards, gives a clue when you see the vast expanse of main roads in York devoid of any moving traffic the only place you see substantial traffic is at the council made congestion points and even most of that is not moving. Then on top of that there are all the closed roads. Chester also has something York does not have. A complete inner ring road which does not seem to have an expensive toll booth on it.[/p][/quote]Jonathan is 'alluding' to something, not 'eluding' to it. York would have had its complete inner ring road in the 1970s was it not for the efforts of York2000, which successfully stopped these plans. Pehaps, with the benefit of hindsight, the city would have been better off? Tug job
  • Score: 2

6:08pm Tue 11 Feb 14

pedalling paul says...

Red Star wrote:
What do people really expect? It's primarily a Medieval city with an expanding 21st century population. You wouldn't want it any other way. Fly away Peter, fly away Paul.
Would be nice if I could fly.............but so far I've only managed it in my dreams.

To The Ox, who also dreams, that so-called road tax pays for roads.
It's correctly called Vehicle Excise Duty and goes to Whitehall. It is not ring fenced for roads, but contributes very slightly to Motorways and strategic trunk roads like the A64.

The upkeep of very road in York except the A64 is funded by CoYC largely from Council Tax Income. Any significant capital expenditure on these local roads would have to come from grants and developer contributions.
[quote][p][bold]Red Star[/bold] wrote: What do people really expect? It's primarily a Medieval city with an expanding 21st century population. You wouldn't want it any other way. Fly away Peter, fly away Paul.[/p][/quote]Would be nice if I could fly.............but so far I've only managed it in my dreams. To The Ox, who also dreams, that so-called road tax pays for roads. It's correctly called Vehicle Excise Duty and goes to Whitehall. It is not ring fenced for roads, but contributes very slightly to Motorways and strategic trunk roads like the A64. The upkeep of very road in York except the A64 is funded by CoYC largely from Council Tax Income. Any significant capital expenditure on these local roads would have to come from grants and developer contributions. pedalling paul
  • Score: 5

2:05am Wed 12 Feb 14

Magicman! says...

The OX wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of.
You are a FOOL it would have taken ALL day with York buses, We pay road TAX to use YES you got it THE ROAD,
No, you pay CAR TAX.
[quote][p][bold]The OX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Seems to be a bus stop near the end of your street, according to Google Earth. And an onward bus trip to Strensall via Lendal Bridge would not have been impracticable. And of course, you were contributing to the "horrendous traffic" that you complain of.[/p][/quote]You are a FOOL it would have taken ALL day with York buses, We pay road TAX to use YES you got it THE ROAD,[/p][/quote]No, you pay CAR TAX. Magicman!
  • Score: 1

2:36am Wed 12 Feb 14

Magicman! says...

OK, so the letter writer is based near Meadlands in Heworth and had to take a granddaughter to the rail station. How old is the child... old enough to ride a bike? If so then the letter writer and the grandchild could cycle the back way out of Meadlands and then join the Derwent Valley off-road cycle route and go as far as James Street, then past Morrisons and cross Foss Islands Road onto Navigation Road, over the river Foss and through Hungate onto Stonebow and then through the city centre to the rail station. Duration would be 15-30 minutes (I say that, but I've got from the B&Q at Hull Road to Beckfield Lane in 16 minutes by bicycle).

I always find it funny when people sit there in a car and then complain about terrible congestion... it'd be like going to Australia right now with an industrial flamethrower on the go and then say "all these forest fires are terrible". You are contributing to the congestion.

Comparing York to Chester for traffic is highly flawed. Just because both cities are "olde worlde" doesn't mean they are two of the same. York's Inner Ring Road is made up of primarily single carriageway roads (Castle Mills Bridge the only dual carriageway), some of which are very narrow on Terraced streets, and every junction is controlled by traffic lights. Chester, meanwhile has an inner ring road built in the 1970's of entirely dual carriageway streets (2 lanes each direction), with pedestrian over/under passes, and the junctions are roundabouts. York's inner ring road WAS originally going to be like Chester's (with a bridge from Leeman Road, now the site of the mail sorting office, over the river to now the site of marygate car park), but the council of the 1940's decided to not spend the money on that and just re-label existing streets as "inner ring road" and let everybody work it out for themselves. So now, unless our council is going to resurrect those original plans and build a proper inner ring road, road capacity can only be allocated according to priority.... If you are a tradesperson who needs a motor vehicle to go between jobs and/or carrying tools and supplies then you'd be allocated the road capacity, if you are disabled and cannot walk more than 50 meters and so need to drive into the city then you'd be allocated road capacity, if you are driving a bus you'd be allocated road capacity. if you are on a 2-wheel vehicle of any type you'd be allocated road capacity... but if you are able bodied but decided to drive because you were not smart enough to consider an alternative traffic-busting way of getting into the city or simply could not be ar$ed to walk to the bus stop then you do not deserve the road capacity as your journey is not compulsory - even if you're in some 'eco-box' car. Think about the road space: given an oblong of 10m long by 2m wide on the road in a traffic queue at 8.30am, what is the most efficient way to fill it? if not moving, that space will fit 10-15 bicycles, one double decker bus carrying 80 passengers, or 3 cars which will most likely be single occupancy and so only 3 people in the space. Allocating road space for cars is for the outer orbital roads, the city streets are for more efficient ways of transporting people.
OK, so the letter writer is based near Meadlands in Heworth and had to take a granddaughter to the rail station. How old is the child... old enough to ride a bike? If so then the letter writer and the grandchild could cycle the back way out of Meadlands and then join the Derwent Valley off-road cycle route and go as far as James Street, then past Morrisons and cross Foss Islands Road onto Navigation Road, over the river Foss and through Hungate onto Stonebow and then through the city centre to the rail station. Duration would be 15-30 minutes (I say that, but I've got from the B&Q at Hull Road to Beckfield Lane in 16 minutes by bicycle). I always find it funny when people sit there in a car and then complain about terrible congestion... it'd be like going to Australia right now with an industrial flamethrower on the go and then say "all these forest fires are terrible". You are contributing to the congestion. Comparing York to Chester for traffic is highly flawed. Just because both cities are "olde worlde" doesn't mean they are two of the same. York's Inner Ring Road is made up of primarily single carriageway roads (Castle Mills Bridge the only dual carriageway), some of which are very narrow on Terraced streets, and every junction is controlled by traffic lights. Chester, meanwhile has an inner ring road built in the 1970's of entirely dual carriageway streets (2 lanes each direction), with pedestrian over/under passes, and the junctions are roundabouts. York's inner ring road WAS originally going to be like Chester's (with a bridge from Leeman Road, now the site of the mail sorting office, over the river to now the site of marygate car park), but the council of the 1940's decided to not spend the money on that and just re-label existing streets as "inner ring road" and let everybody work it out for themselves. So now, unless our council is going to resurrect those original plans and build a proper inner ring road, road capacity can only be allocated according to priority.... If you are a tradesperson who needs a motor vehicle to go between jobs and/or carrying tools and supplies then you'd be allocated the road capacity, if you are disabled and cannot walk more than 50 meters and so need to drive into the city then you'd be allocated road capacity, if you are driving a bus you'd be allocated road capacity. if you are on a 2-wheel vehicle of any type you'd be allocated road capacity... but if you are able bodied but decided to drive because you were not smart enough to consider an alternative traffic-busting way of getting into the city or simply could not be ar$ed to walk to the bus stop then you do not deserve the road capacity as your journey is not compulsory - even if you're in some 'eco-box' car. Think about the road space: given an oblong of 10m long by 2m wide on the road in a traffic queue at 8.30am, what is the most efficient way to fill it? if not moving, that space will fit 10-15 bicycles, one double decker bus carrying 80 passengers, or 3 cars which will most likely be single occupancy and so only 3 people in the space. Allocating road space for cars is for the outer orbital roads, the city streets are for more efficient ways of transporting people. Magicman!
  • Score: 1

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