Ridiculous argument

York Press: Ridiculous argument Ridiculous argument

WHY is councillor Anna Semlyen apparently shy about her political identity when she calls for yet more roads to be made 20mph (Letters, December 10)?

She uses ridiculous environmental arguments in an attempt to inflict yet more 20mph zones in Gillygate, Nunnery Lane, etc.

The notion that driving a car at 20mph instead of 30mph will reduce pollution is rubbish as anybody who has a fuel computer will tell you.

Indeed, since the introduction of the Lendal Bridge fiasco, there is no way a car will ever get up to 20mph in these roads. Congestion creates pollution, not driving at a safe 30mph.

So please don’t attempt to get your fellow non-driving councillors to impose more 20mph zones.

David Fish, Mulberry Drive, Haxby, York.

Comments (24)

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10:36am Wed 18 Dec 13

pedalling paul says...

Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.
Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting. pedalling paul

11:12am Wed 18 Dec 13

courier46 says...

This will be another non listening councillor out in 2015
This will be another non listening councillor out in 2015 courier46

12:05pm Wed 18 Dec 13

NoNewsIsGoodNews says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.
That's a stupid comment even by your standards Paul.
Why would any car manufacturer create a car with higher pollution at any speed?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.[/p][/quote]That's a stupid comment even by your standards Paul. Why would any car manufacturer create a car with higher pollution at any speed? NoNewsIsGoodNews

12:05pm Wed 18 Dec 13

far2bizzy says...

So Mr Fish you yourself state that in the city’s crowded streets you rarely travel at 30mph, which makes the argument about the relative pollution levels created by a car doing 30 or 20mph irrelevant, doesn’t it? What does your fuel computer tell you about the relative pollution levels created by a car constantly accelerating to and decelerating from 30mph as opposed to 20mph? That’s more to the point, surely?
So Mr Fish you yourself state that in the city’s crowded streets you rarely travel at 30mph, which makes the argument about the relative pollution levels created by a car doing 30 or 20mph irrelevant, doesn’t it? What does your fuel computer tell you about the relative pollution levels created by a car constantly accelerating to and decelerating from 30mph as opposed to 20mph? That’s more to the point, surely? far2bizzy

12:42pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Mulgrave says...

Coun Semlyen want's traffic restricted to 20mph everywhere, its personal and also she is paid by a single issue pressure group, she will find "facts" and angles to suit the end she wants. The one place where I would have thought it prudent to have a 20mph limit is Lendal Bridge, but that would spoil Coun Merrett's pet project - to speed up favoured traffic as much as possible here - despite previously supporting restricting the bus route along Bishopthrpe Road to 20mph....I won't need to pay to see a pantomime this Christmas. - we have one playing all year.
Coun Semlyen want's traffic restricted to 20mph everywhere, its personal and also she is paid by a single issue pressure group, she will find "facts" and angles to suit the end she wants. The one place where I would have thought it prudent to have a 20mph limit is Lendal Bridge, but that would spoil Coun Merrett's pet project - to speed up favoured traffic as much as possible here - despite previously supporting restricting the bus route along Bishopthrpe Road to 20mph....I won't need to pay to see a pantomime this Christmas. - we have one playing all year. Mulgrave

12:55pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Jonthan says...

"WHY is councillor Anna Semlyen apparently shy about her political identity?"

We could ask the same question of the letter writer. Please nail your colours to the mast Mr Fisher.
"WHY is councillor Anna Semlyen apparently shy about her political identity?" We could ask the same question of the letter writer. Please nail your colours to the mast Mr Fisher. Jonthan

2:19pm Wed 18 Dec 13

ColdAsChristmas says...

Why don't you nail your colours below this comment Jonthan?

Or is it a case that red and green should not be seen?
Why don't you nail your colours below this comment Jonthan? Or is it a case that red and green should not be seen? ColdAsChristmas

4:36pm Wed 18 Dec 13

wallman says...

Jonthan speaks again a load of rubbish and its you not us asking
Jonthan speaks again a load of rubbish and its you not us asking wallman

6:10pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Jonthan says...

ColdAsChristmas wrote:
Why don't you nail your colours below this comment Jonthan?

Or is it a case that red and green should not be seen?
ColdAs, I'm starting to worry about you. My position as a floating (or stategic) voter is clearly set out elsewhere on this site, and it has been there since lunchtime. Look my comments under the letter headed "Selection headache"

Do try harder
[quote][p][bold]ColdAsChristmas[/bold] wrote: Why don't you nail your colours below this comment Jonthan? Or is it a case that red and green should not be seen?[/p][/quote]ColdAs, I'm starting to worry about you. My position as a floating (or stategic) voter is clearly set out elsewhere on this site, and it has been there since lunchtime. Look my comments under the letter headed "Selection headache" Do try harder Jonthan

12:42am Thu 19 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

Mulgrave wrote:
Coun Semlyen want's traffic restricted to 20mph everywhere, its personal and also she is paid by a single issue pressure group, she will find "facts" and angles to suit the end she wants. The one place where I would have thought it prudent to have a 20mph limit is Lendal Bridge, but that would spoil Coun Merrett's pet project - to speed up favoured traffic as much as possible here - despite previously supporting restricting the bus route along Bishopthrpe Road to 20mph....I won't need to pay to see a pantomime this Christmas. - we have one playing all year.
Well Semlyn has obviously been 'persuaded' (possibly by loads of purple coloured Charles Darwin's, if you get my drift) to press for citywide 20mph limits. And the most dangerous politicians are those that have been 'persuaded' by a single group of people only in it for their own ends, we only have to look at how this country as a whole is being run to see the fruits of that.
[quote][p][bold]Mulgrave[/bold] wrote: Coun Semlyen want's traffic restricted to 20mph everywhere, its personal and also she is paid by a single issue pressure group, she will find "facts" and angles to suit the end she wants. The one place where I would have thought it prudent to have a 20mph limit is Lendal Bridge, but that would spoil Coun Merrett's pet project - to speed up favoured traffic as much as possible here - despite previously supporting restricting the bus route along Bishopthrpe Road to 20mph....I won't need to pay to see a pantomime this Christmas. - we have one playing all year.[/p][/quote]Well Semlyn has obviously been 'persuaded' (possibly by loads of purple coloured Charles Darwin's, if you get my drift) to press for citywide 20mph limits. And the most dangerous politicians are those that have been 'persuaded' by a single group of people only in it for their own ends, we only have to look at how this country as a whole is being run to see the fruits of that. Magicman!

8:10am Thu 19 Dec 13

Trust me I'm a doctor says...

far2bizzy wrote:
So Mr Fish you yourself state that in the city’s crowded streets you rarely travel at 30mph, which makes the argument about the relative pollution levels created by a car doing 30 or 20mph irrelevant, doesn’t it? What does your fuel computer tell you about the relative pollution levels created by a car constantly accelerating to and decelerating from 30mph as opposed to 20mph? That’s more to the point, surely?
When the penny finally drops driver will learn its much better to keep moving at a steady speed instead of racing up to the back of the cue or the red light and then having to site their until it's clear to move on,, You would think that because of the price of fuel Taxi drivers would show us how to drive economically. But then again that would take Common sense !!!
We Don't need 20 limits, We need the 30 limits enforcing !!!
[quote][p][bold]far2bizzy[/bold] wrote: So Mr Fish you yourself state that in the city’s crowded streets you rarely travel at 30mph, which makes the argument about the relative pollution levels created by a car doing 30 or 20mph irrelevant, doesn’t it? What does your fuel computer tell you about the relative pollution levels created by a car constantly accelerating to and decelerating from 30mph as opposed to 20mph? That’s more to the point, surely?[/p][/quote]When the penny finally drops driver will learn its much better to keep moving at a steady speed instead of racing up to the back of the cue or the red light and then having to site their until it's clear to move on,, You would think that because of the price of fuel Taxi drivers would show us how to drive economically. But then again that would take Common sense !!! We Don't need 20 limits, We need the 30 limits enforcing !!! Trust me I'm a doctor

8:45am Thu 19 Dec 13

Buzzz Light-year says...

Wow look at Paul's 3 figure thumbs up score!
Who'd have thought that system was open to abuse?
Wow look at Paul's 3 figure thumbs up score! Who'd have thought that system was open to abuse? Buzzz Light-year

9:38am Thu 19 Dec 13

Kevin Turvey says...

‘Buzzz Light-year says...
Wow look at Paul's 3 figure thumbs up score!
Who'd have thought that system was open to abuse?’

Well Speaking as someone who used to work with his peddlingsome I can testify that the voting is very much incorrect.

There was not a day that went by without him falling out with someone, so therefore the thumbs up can only be incorrect and should indeed be a few thumbs down.

Maybe Dave Merret the Ferret has gotten control and is manipulating the figures?

Either that or the IT guy at the Press has a sense of humour.
I wonder what it really is?
‘Buzzz Light-year says... Wow look at Paul's 3 figure thumbs up score! Who'd have thought that system was open to abuse?’ Well Speaking as someone who used to work with his peddlingsome I can testify that the voting is very much incorrect. There was not a day that went by without him falling out with someone, so therefore the thumbs up can only be incorrect and should indeed be a few thumbs down. Maybe Dave Merret the Ferret has gotten control and is manipulating the figures? Either that or the IT guy at the Press has a sense of humour. I wonder what it really is? Kevin Turvey

10:14am Thu 19 Dec 13

Igiveinthen says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.
Ridiculous Argument - an apt name for this article and also for the comment made by our very own cycling hero Mr pedallingpaul, you should be praising the efforts made by motor manufacturers in reducing harmful emissions from internal combustion engines, they may even emit less harmful emissions than you when your pedalling your bike!, so for all the work they put into designing cleaner engines you and Semlyn want to wreck all that effort in trying to make cars drive at an uneconomical speed and put out more emissions.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.[/p][/quote]Ridiculous Argument - an apt name for this article and also for the comment made by our very own cycling hero Mr pedallingpaul, you should be praising the efforts made by motor manufacturers in reducing harmful emissions from internal combustion engines, they may even emit less harmful emissions than you when your pedalling your bike!, so for all the work they put into designing cleaner engines you and Semlyn want to wreck all that effort in trying to make cars drive at an uneconomical speed and put out more emissions. Igiveinthen

11:34am Thu 19 Dec 13

Bo Jolly says...

Look how Anna's argument changes!

Safety
-BUT studies showing that blanket 20mph limits do not reduce accidents (and are even associated with increase accidents in the two best-studied schemes) become well-known. Move on to:

Make people *feel* safer
- BUT widely ridiculed as a weak justification of £700,000. Move on to:

Reducing pollution
-BUT research by the AA backs up the obvious conclusion that moving slowly in a lower gear does not reduce emissions and may even increase them. When this becomes widely know, what will be next?

Perhaps she will claim that 20mph blanket limits increase house prices? Or reduce hospital admission due to road rage? Or some other daft point that will be quickly refuted or highly contested. Anything but her real logic: in the fairy tale world she inhabits, the sole purpose of 20mph blanket limits is to magically deter people from driving at all.

Let's face it Anna, when you lost the safety argument, your whole justification for spending our money was lost.
Look how Anna's argument changes! Safety -BUT studies showing that blanket 20mph limits do not reduce accidents (and are even associated with increase accidents in the two best-studied schemes) become well-known. Move on to: Make people *feel* safer [even though they are not] - BUT widely ridiculed as a weak justification of £700,000. Move on to: Reducing pollution -BUT research by the AA backs up the obvious conclusion that moving slowly in a lower gear does not reduce emissions and may even increase them. When this becomes widely know, what will be next? Perhaps she will claim that 20mph blanket limits increase house prices? Or reduce hospital admission due to road rage? Or some other daft point that will be quickly refuted or highly contested. Anything but her real logic: in the fairy tale world she inhabits, the sole purpose of 20mph blanket limits is to magically deter people from driving at all. Let's face it Anna, when you lost the safety argument, your whole justification for spending our money was lost. Bo Jolly

1:09pm Thu 19 Dec 13

non pedalling pete says...

P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down
P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down non pedalling pete

1:21pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Bo Jolly says...

non pedalling pete wrote:
P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down
In case you haven't noticed elsewhere, someone or some group has found a way to abuse the voting system. For a brief dazzling period Pedalling Paul's comment was rated at 1000 thumbs-up (suggesting that the hacker has a sense of humour if nothing else). Hence the comments above.

The brief period of Paul's elevation and the lack of connection with the Lendal Bridge story suggests that the vote abuse is the work of one person or a small group rather than an organised 'pro-bridge closure' lobby getting their supporters to register and vote. So come on Press, sort it out please!
[quote][p][bold]non pedalling pete[/bold] wrote: P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down[/p][/quote]In case you haven't noticed elsewhere, someone or some group has found a way to abuse the voting system. For a brief dazzling period Pedalling Paul's comment was rated at 1000 thumbs-up (suggesting that the hacker has a sense of humour if nothing else). Hence the comments above. The brief period of Paul's elevation and the lack of connection with the Lendal Bridge story suggests that the vote abuse is the work of one person or a small group rather than an organised 'pro-bridge closure' lobby getting their supporters to register and vote. So come on Press, sort it out please! Bo Jolly

11:53pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

This is hilarious, all the local politicans have bene on here voting down the comments that paint them in a bad light! Brilliant.... keep doing that rather than listening to the people of the city you're supposed to respresent and you'll be out of office within the next 2 years.
This is hilarious, all the local politicans have bene on here voting down the comments that paint them in a bad light! Brilliant.... keep doing that rather than listening to the people of the city you're supposed to respresent and you'll be out of office within the next 2 years. Magicman!

11:56pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

Jonthan wrote:
"WHY is councillor Anna Semlyen apparently shy about her political identity?"

We could ask the same question of the letter writer. Please nail your colours to the mast Mr Fisher.
Given this has gone from a minus 'thumbs down' score of somewhere in the 20's, to a 'thumbs up' of 481, it would suggest foul play at work... somebody in the ivory towers has been hacking into the SQL database for this website methinks......
[quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: "WHY is councillor Anna Semlyen apparently shy about her political identity?" We could ask the same question of the letter writer. Please nail your colours to the mast Mr Fisher.[/p][/quote]Given this has gone from a minus 'thumbs down' score of somewhere in the 20's, to a 'thumbs up' of 481, it would suggest foul play at work... somebody in the ivory towers has been hacking into the SQL database for this website methinks...... Magicman!

1:14am Fri 20 Dec 13

AnotherPointofView says...

non pedalling pete wrote:
P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down
There is some hacking going on. PP's comments go from +1000, down to -222 and currently back up to +262.
[quote][p][bold]non pedalling pete[/bold] wrote: P.P's score is 222 thumbs DOWN not up including my thumbs down[/p][/quote]There is some hacking going on. PP's comments go from +1000, down to -222 and currently back up to +262. AnotherPointofView

8:53am Fri 20 Dec 13

MorkofYork says...

No one pays attention to the 20 zone at the end of Nunnery lane. Even the police and council workers glide through at 25.
20's plenty is a complete driving comprehension failure.

This is why it will never be a success.
No one pays attention to the 20 zone at the end of Nunnery lane. Even the police and council workers glide through at 25. 20's plenty is a complete driving comprehension failure. This is why it will never be a success. MorkofYork

9:34am Fri 20 Dec 13

dsom73 says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.
Where to start with this...

Let's begin with Physics and Newtons 3 laws of motion before moving on to a little bit of Petro-Chemistry.

To cover the hybrids and electric vehicles suggestion, we'll discuss economics, the greed of oil companies and their sponsorship of the vehicle industry and Government.

Finally, we'll talk about how ice can bring down the swelling caused by that epic facepalm.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Perhaps it would be sensible for car manufacturers to redesign engines so that greater pollution occurs at higher speeds.....or better still hybrid or electric vehicles for peak commuting.[/p][/quote]Where to start with this... Let's begin with Physics and Newtons 3 laws of motion before moving on to a little bit of Petro-Chemistry. To cover the hybrids and electric vehicles suggestion, we'll discuss economics, the greed of oil companies and their sponsorship of the vehicle industry and Government. Finally, we'll talk about how ice can bring down the swelling caused by that epic facepalm. dsom73

6:04pm Fri 20 Dec 13

Bo Jolly says...

Wow! I seem to have found Anna Semlyen's 'Boiling point', leading to the complete removal of all comments on the letter about kettles(!).

You know Press, some might think that deleting critical comments at the request of one councillor is a little, er, corrupt...

However, for anyone who has forgotten the saga of Semlyen's solar panel sales and the public money, the story can be found here: http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/news/9077565.
New_councillor_facin
g_inquiry/
and here: http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/news/9177292.
Eco_councillor_spare
d_from_inquiry/

(but be sure to read the comments, which correct certain obfuscations in the articles)
Wow! I seem to have found Anna Semlyen's 'Boiling point', leading to the complete removal of all comments on the letter about kettles(!). You know Press, some might think that deleting critical comments at the request of one councillor is a little, er, corrupt... However, for anyone who has forgotten the saga of Semlyen's solar panel sales and the public money, the story can be found here: http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/news/9077565. New_councillor_facin g_inquiry/ and here: http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/news/9177292. Eco_councillor_spare d_from_inquiry/ (but be sure to read the comments, which correct certain obfuscations in the articles) Bo Jolly

10:42pm Fri 20 Dec 13

Buzzz Light-year says...

Bo Jolly wrote:
Wow! I seem to have found Anna Semlyen's 'Boiling point', leading to the complete removal of all comments on the letter about kettles(!).

You know Press, some might think that deleting critical comments at the request of one councillor is a little, er, corrupt...

However, for anyone who has forgotten the saga of Semlyen's solar panel sales and the public money, the story can be found here: http://www.yorkpress

.co.uk/news/9077565.

New_councillor_facin

g_inquiry/
and here: http://www.yorkpress

.co.uk/news/9177292.

Eco_councillor_spare

d_from_inquiry/

(but be sure to read the comments, which correct certain obfuscations in the articles)
Glad you posted this and hope it stays. I'm all for the record to stand.

Excision of comment can easily look like an admission of guilt.
[quote][p][bold]Bo Jolly[/bold] wrote: Wow! I seem to have found Anna Semlyen's 'Boiling point', leading to the complete removal of all comments on the letter about kettles(!). You know Press, some might think that deleting critical comments at the request of one councillor is a little, er, corrupt... However, for anyone who has forgotten the saga of Semlyen's solar panel sales and the public money, the story can be found here: http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/news/9077565. New_councillor_facin g_inquiry/ and here: http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/news/9177292. Eco_councillor_spare d_from_inquiry/ (but be sure to read the comments, which correct certain obfuscations in the articles)[/p][/quote]Glad you posted this and hope it stays. I'm all for the record to stand. Excision of comment can easily look like an admission of guilt. Buzzz Light-year

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