It’s too hard to tell what is what now (From York Press)

Absolutely right! When I cycle very carefully through the foot streets area outside the foot street hours, it is obvious that most pedestrians have no idea that they are not pedestrian 24x7. I don't belt through, and I am very aware that someone can just walk out in front of me, so I use my bell to warn people. But even I had to ask one of the street wardens when the times are due to change as there is no signing confirming times at all!

When I asked some years ago where the signage had gone at Bootham Bar, I was told that someone else in the council thought it detracted from the appearance, so now there's just a black bollard. If I were a cycling stranger to York, I simply wouldn't know.

The whole foot street system is a total fiasco, an utter farce

THANK YOU DALE EDWARDS!!

When I am going through Goodramgate and round by the Minster on my bike on the way to catch a train, the last thing I want is people just wandering off the pavements and right into my route... some people have got the shock of their lives when they get a blast from my 135db airhorn if they have stepped out in a truly dangerous fashion (and I suspect after that shock they then look more often after that!).

It is utterly bizarre that the council removed the signs showing what times Footstreets were in operation. I got told off one sunday for riding down the pedestrianised section of Goodramgate at 3.40pm on a sunday, as I presumed footstreets ended at 3.30pm on a sunday (given that most shops close at 4pm on a sunday, and on mon-sat the footstreets are opened up at least 30 minutes before shops close), but in a very Hitler-ish fashion she barked at me what the times were.
And do you want to know what's even more bizarre? as part of Ron Cooke's OCD Perfectionist drive to rid the city of everything he deems as "clutter", a lot of the Variable Message Signs that change to display "no vehicles" or "no motor vehicles" according to footstreet hours now have a white cross at the bottom, marked for removal! So not content with removing the signs showing what times the footstreets operate, the council are now going to remove the signs that actually say 'no vehicles'! And that's not all, I have noted at least two CCTV poles that also have the white cross for removal (Piccadilly being one) - evidently removing 'clutter' is more important than peoples' safety... at least we know where the council stands on this then! (but then again I have thought this was the council's stance ever since they decided to go against their consultation results and remove the cycle lane at Water End just to pander to a few whiney motorists)

As for Bootham Bar/High Petergate, there is a complete conflict here. Coming from Bootham all cyclists are directed by a sign on the railings that the NCN cycle route continues 'through bar', but then the next sign next to bootham bar has a blanket 'no vehicles' restriction showing (including bikes). If the no bikes restriction is still in place then the NCN sign needs to be removed, otherwise the VMS beside Bootham Bar needs to be reprogrammed.

I agree, there is a need for clarity on pedestrianised hours for all, both for the reasons above and because of those cyclists who seem to think it is fine to cycle in those areas during pedestrianised hours.

I agree - many people who cycle in York will be aware of this issue. Its not the pedestrians fault either because it really isn't very clear.

Part of this is our culture of exceptions to rules - you end up not knowing what's going on.

The speed of cars in the footstreet areas is unacceptable also - it should be pedestrian and cyclist priority at all times with a very low speed limit.

It is... it's signed as 10mph, which is hard to keep down at even on a bike and is barely any quicker than walking pace - problem is bikes aren't factory fitted with speedo's and the drivers of cars that enter these streets don't seem to know what the numbers on their speedo's mean.

Magicman! wrote:
It is... it's signed as 10mph, which is hard to keep down at even on a bike and is barely any quicker than walking pace - problem is bikes aren't factory fitted with speedo's and the drivers of cars that enter these streets don't seem to know what the numbers on their speedo's mean.

Barely any faster? Nonsense.
10mph is two and a half times walking pace.
Walking pace is 4mph only when you are striding out.
Most town centre meanderers will be doing 2 to 3mph if that.
That makes 10mph three to five times faster than walking pace.

I don't need a speedo to tell whether I'm driving/riding too fast for all the pedestrians around me.

yorkshirelad wrote:
I agree - many people who cycle in York will be aware of this issue. Its not the pedestrians fault either because it really isn't very clear.

Part of this is our culture of exceptions to rules - you end up not knowing what's going on.

The speed of cars in the footstreet areas is unacceptable also - it should be pedestrian and cyclist priority at all times with a very low speed limit.

Apart from your very last point I agree with you, however it is a pedestrian zone so during the applicable hours priority should be given to Pedestrians, not cyclists. Cycling is infact only permitted on Deangate within the pedestrianised area during the pedestrianisation hours and this ban should be enforced.this link may be useful.
http://www.york.gov.
uk/info/200295/perma
nent_road_and_highwa
y_restrictions/420/p
ermanent_road_and_hi
ghway_restrictions/5

Deangate is NOT a pedestrianised road, so I would wel expect cycling to be permitted there! Minster Yard, that small area with a couple of shops which is directly opposite the south entrance to the Minster is pedestrianised, but Minster Yard does not extend out to connect with Duncombe Place, the council map is not correctly drawn. (Deangate continues right up to the junction with High Petergate)

I think there could be certain changes made though: for example, Colliergate from St Andrewgate to Stonebow could have cycling allowed in the direction stated - cyclists can go along Monkgate, Goodramgate, Aldwark, St Andrewgate, the the Colliergate link would get bikes to that side of the city centre without using Peasholme Green or other roads which can be busy with buses and trucks... Market Street and Feasgate could also have a contraflow cycle lane in place (in use only outside of pedestrian hours) and clearly signed, as currently if you are cycling through the city centre out of hours to go from Goodramgate to Lendal, and being completely legal by the book, you should go Church Street, Parliament Street, High Ousegate, Coney Street, Lendal - which is a big detour and involves an uphill section, all of which isn't technically necessary as the Market Street and Feasgate are wide enough for a contraflow lane...
If cycle lanes were built in the city centre it'd be nice to have the roads built like what is being done outside the Minster at the moment, but with a slight (50mm max) gradient drop from road level into the cycle route, and no physical drop from pavement to roadway so that physically more priority is given to pedestrians but the cycle route is clearly marked both visibly and in a tactile manner for visually impaired persons.

tgfoy wrote:

yorkshirelad wrote: I agree - many people who cycle in York will be aware of this issue. Its not the pedestrians fault either because it really isn't very clear. Part of this is our culture of exceptions to rules - you end up not knowing what's going on. The speed of cars in the footstreet areas is unacceptable also - it should be pedestrian and cyclist priority at all times with a very low speed limit.

Apart from your very last point I agree with you, however it is a pedestrian zone so during the applicable hours priority should be given to Pedestrians, not cyclists. Cycling is infact only permitted on Deangate within the pedestrianised area during the pedestrianisation hours and this ban should be enforced.this link may be useful. http://www.york.gov. uk/info/200295/perma nent_road_and_highwa y_restrictions/420/p ermanent_road_and_hi ghway_restrictions/5

Got to love the prejudiced stupidity of someone posting a link that contradicts what they say.

From that page:

Deangate/ Minster Yard:

Motorised vehicles are not allowed to pass through Minster Yard. It is closed to traffic 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Cycling is permitted along this route.

Buzz Light-year wrote:

tgfoy wrote:

yorkshirelad wrote: I agree - many people who cycle in York will be aware of this issue. Its not the pedestrians fault either because it really isn't very clear. Part of this is our culture of exceptions to rules - you end up not knowing what's going on. The speed of cars in the footstreet areas is unacceptable also - it should be pedestrian and cyclist priority at all times with a very low speed limit.

Apart from your very last point I agree with you, however it is a pedestrian zone so during the applicable hours priority should be given to Pedestrians, not cyclists. Cycling is infact only permitted on Deangate within the pedestrianised area during the pedestrianisation hours and this ban should be enforced.this link may be useful. http://www.york.gov. uk/info/200295/perma nent_road_and_highwa y_restrictions/420/p ermanent_road_and_hi ghway_restrictions/5

Got to love the prejudiced stupidity of someone posting a link that contradicts what they say.

From that page:

Deangate/ Minster Yard:

Motorised vehicles are not allowed to pass through Minster Yard. It is closed to traffic 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Cycling is permitted along this route.

You are mistaken, please re read my post. I clearly stated that cycling is permitted in deangate which agrees with the quoted portion from the link. However Deangate along the southside of the Minster is part of the pedestrian zone, just the only part shared with cyclists.
I see no need to resort to personal insults when commenting, they tend to reflect the possible shortcommings of those who use them in my opinion.