Great compliment

I READ with interest Coun Fraser’s letter about the Taxpayers’ Alliance protest against York’s Labour cabinet planning to raise council tax.

The protest was cancelled due to the weather, like many other events around that time.

Coun Fraser’s ignorance of this fact is surprising given the snow-covered ground.

However, to conclude, based on there being no protest that it is “proof positive that they are merely a front organisation, funded by extremists who represent no one”, is ridiculous, even by Coun Fraser’s standards.

It is free to become a member of the alliance and there are no restrictions on who can join, although some would argue that as a member of one of York’s most wasteful ruling groups that has cut basic services while increasing allowances to Labour councillors, they may decline Coun Fraser’s application.

The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party, but the fact that Coun Fraser assumes and insists that an organisation set up to get the best value for council taxpayers should be linked to the Conservatives is a great compliment to my party.

Coun Chris Steward, Conservative, Rural West York.


• AS always Coun Sandy Fraser’s letter relating to the Taxpayers Alliance demonstration reeks of the political dogma he is famous for (Letters, January 24).

Hints that they may be supported by the Conservative Party (Conservative is the correct name not Tory, Sandy) are typical of his tunnel vision.

Like him, I do not know who is behind the alliance, but I do know that we live in a democracy where freedom of speech is a right.

Sandy and his pals on the council have proved time and time again that they do not believe in transparency and like work in secret.

Are they now against freedom of speech as well or is it just their own bigoted views that are to be allowed by the York proletariat?

PS: The reason Coun Fraser found no supporters for this demonstration was that it had been cancelled because of inclement weather. He obviously did his research well.

Coun George Barton, Conservative, Wheldrake.

Comments (16)

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11:19am Sat 26 Jan 13

The Great Buda says...

"The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party"

Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....
"The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party" Yet two members of said party rush to its defence..... The Great Buda
  • Score: 0

11:26am Sat 26 Jan 13

Silver says...

The Great Buda wrote:
"The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party"

Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....
And what two members (One definitely a member by any other name that the censor won't let me post) (and another one the same but thinks poverty doesn't exist)
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: "The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party" Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....[/p][/quote]And what two members (One definitely a member by any other name that the censor won't let me post) (and another one the same but thinks poverty doesn't exist) Silver
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Sat 26 Jan 13

E=MC^2 says...

I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then.
I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then. E=MC^2
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

The Great Buda wrote:
"The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party" Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....
It's a shame that Labour councillors like Fraser and yourself oppose the TPA's thos of efficient and non-wasteful tax spending. That's Labour all over - a 'something for nothing' approach - spend, spend, spend, and when the country is bust, leave it for the Tories to sort out. Plus ca change..... !!!
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: "The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party" Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....[/p][/quote]It's a shame that Labour councillors like Fraser and yourself oppose the TPA's thos of efficient and non-wasteful tax spending. That's Labour all over - a 'something for nothing' approach - spend, spend, spend, and when the country is bust, leave it for the Tories to sort out. Plus ca change..... !!! Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

E=MC^2 wrote:
I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then.
Eminent and respected economists, you mean.
[quote][p][bold]E=MC^2[/bold] wrote: I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then.[/p][/quote]Eminent and respected economists, you mean. Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

12:24pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Micklegate says...

E=MC^2 wrote:
I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then.
Polly Toynbee?? It's like entering a debate that Manchester United get favours from referees by quoting Arsene Wenger.
[quote][p][bold]E=MC^2[/bold] wrote: I need do no more than quote Polly Toynbee “The TPA is a rightwing lobby group whose finances are opaque, but which was founded, and staffed, by former Conservative party councillors and researchers. Its advisory council consists of luminaries of the free-market right: Ruth Lea, who was head of policy at the Institute of Directors; Madsen Pirie, of the Adam Smith Institute; and Professors Minogue and Minford, leading lights in Margaret Thatcher's economic firmament.” So there we have it there are definitely NO links what so ever there then.[/p][/quote]Polly Toynbee?? It's like entering a debate that Manchester United get favours from referees by quoting Arsene Wenger. Micklegate
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

Example of Labour's abuse of the public purse:

COYC Leader, Coun Alexander and Chief Executive Kersten England chosing to fly to Paris on Wednesday 16th January and stay overnight, with the Council paying for the flight and accommodation. A cost of around £800, plus Ms England's wages. The two were invited by Welcome Yorkshire to fly for free with the WTY/YorkshireTdF delegation on the wednesday morning. Alexanders excuse was he had to attend a meeting ? Why then didn't the WTY entourage travel the day before ? Because, there was no meeting !

Alexander and England just wanted a freebie night on the town at tax-payers expense., and to take a photo of the two publicity seekers in front of the Arc de Triomphe holding their Back Le Bid banner.

What a disgrace !

The TPA will be running a blog on this shameful waste of taxpayers money.

The two free-loaders should be made to pay the money back !
Example of Labour's abuse of the public purse: COYC Leader, Coun Alexander and Chief Executive Kersten England chosing to fly to Paris on Wednesday 16th January and stay overnight, with the Council paying for the flight and accommodation. A cost of around £800, plus Ms England's wages. The two were invited by Welcome Yorkshire to fly for free with the WTY/YorkshireTdF delegation on the wednesday morning. Alexanders excuse was he had to attend a meeting ? Why then didn't the WTY entourage travel the day before ? Because, there was no meeting ! Alexander and England just wanted a freebie night on the town at tax-payers expense., and to take a photo of the two publicity seekers in front of the Arc de Triomphe holding their Back Le Bid banner. What a disgrace ! The TPA will be running a blog on this shameful waste of taxpayers money. The two free-loaders should be made to pay the money back ! Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Micklegate says...

Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:
Example of Labour's abuse of the public purse:

COYC Leader, Coun Alexander and Chief Executive Kersten England chosing to fly to Paris on Wednesday 16th January and stay overnight, with the Council paying for the flight and accommodation. A cost of around £800, plus Ms England's wages. The two were invited by Welcome Yorkshire to fly for free with the WTY/YorkshireTdF delegation on the wednesday morning. Alexanders excuse was he had to attend a meeting ? Why then didn't the WTY entourage travel the day before ? Because, there was no meeting !

Alexander and England just wanted a freebie night on the town at tax-payers expense., and to take a photo of the two publicity seekers in front of the Arc de Triomphe holding their Back Le Bid banner.

What a disgrace !

The TPA will be running a blog on this shameful waste of taxpayers money.

The two free-loaders should be made to pay the money back !
Exactly the sort of waste the TPA should look into, they could have a field day with York Labour! Just a brief look at the TPA website shows they criticise and praise those of all parties, if Conservatives generally deliver the best value then so be it they will get less criticism!

Can some of the TPA critics give examples of things the TPA has criticised that they think they were wrong to criticise?
[quote][p][bold]Scarlet Pimpernel[/bold] wrote: Example of Labour's abuse of the public purse: COYC Leader, Coun Alexander and Chief Executive Kersten England chosing to fly to Paris on Wednesday 16th January and stay overnight, with the Council paying for the flight and accommodation. A cost of around £800, plus Ms England's wages. The two were invited by Welcome Yorkshire to fly for free with the WTY/YorkshireTdF delegation on the wednesday morning. Alexanders excuse was he had to attend a meeting ? Why then didn't the WTY entourage travel the day before ? Because, there was no meeting ! Alexander and England just wanted a freebie night on the town at tax-payers expense., and to take a photo of the two publicity seekers in front of the Arc de Triomphe holding their Back Le Bid banner. What a disgrace ! The TPA will be running a blog on this shameful waste of taxpayers money. The two free-loaders should be made to pay the money back ![/p][/quote]Exactly the sort of waste the TPA should look into, they could have a field day with York Labour! Just a brief look at the TPA website shows they criticise and praise those of all parties, if Conservatives generally deliver the best value then so be it they will get less criticism! Can some of the TPA critics give examples of things the TPA has criticised that they think they were wrong to criticise? Micklegate
  • Score: 0

8:46am Sun 27 Jan 13

perplexed says...

In May 2012 the Taxpayers’ Alliance published a report calling for, a “single proportionate income. This would be achieved 1) by cutting taxes to 33% of national income. Taxes currently account for 37.5% of national income. 2) Ensuring that marginal tax rates do not exceed 30% and the personal tax allowance should rise to £10,000. 3)Taxes on capital and labour income “disguised” as business taxes abolished and replaced with a tax on distributed income. 4) Transaction, wealth and inheritance tax abolished. Consumption taxes would remain for the moment but transport taxes would be cut. Local authorities would raise half of their spending power from local taxes.

In other words, the rich get richer.Second all taxes on business profits would go. And since businesses of any substance are owned by wealthier people that means the rich get richer. How will they do that? By retaining their income in companies and selling shares in them free from capital gains tax: that’s how. Their suggestion of tax on corporate distributions has a built in massive loop hole contained within it. How convenient for those who can defer their income because they’re already wealthy until a time of their choosing when it will be tax free!

The personal allowance would increase very modestly to £10,000 and then 30% – which would hammer low earners and pensioners in particular, whose tax rates will rise considerably as a result, as will the tax rate for most on less than £45,000 of income a year. But of course the tax rate on the 10% earning over both that will fall, in some cases considerably. So the poor, will lose and the rich will win. Now, there’s a surprise.

And that will also be true for local taxes because forcing local authorities in poor areas to increase their tax yield from local communities will massively increase local taxes in these areas by reducing redistribution to them from richer areas, where the rate may well fall as a result.

Coun Steward and Coun Barton have every right to stand by TPA and their support of the richest in our society at the expense of the poorest. However distasteful the TPA's views may be, they should be congratulated for having the courage to stand up by their convictions and let the people of York know where their true loyalties lie.
In May 2012 the Taxpayers’ Alliance published a report calling for, a “single proportionate income. This would be achieved 1) by cutting taxes to 33% of national income. Taxes currently account for 37.5% of national income. 2) Ensuring that marginal tax rates do not exceed 30% and the personal tax allowance should rise to £10,000. 3)Taxes on capital and labour income “disguised” as business taxes abolished and replaced with a tax on distributed income. 4) Transaction, wealth and inheritance tax abolished. Consumption taxes would remain for the moment but transport taxes would be cut. Local authorities would raise half of their spending power from local taxes. In other words, the rich get richer.Second all taxes on business profits would go. And since businesses of any substance are owned by wealthier people that means the rich get richer. How will they do that? By retaining their income in companies and selling shares in them free from capital gains tax: that’s how. Their suggestion of tax on corporate distributions has a built in massive loop hole contained within it. How convenient for those who can defer their income because they’re already wealthy until a time of their choosing when it will be tax free! The personal allowance would increase very modestly to £10,000 and then 30% – which would hammer low earners and pensioners in particular, whose tax rates will rise considerably as a result, as will the tax rate for most on less than £45,000 of income a year. But of course the tax rate on the 10% earning over both that will fall, in some cases considerably. So the poor, will lose and the rich will win. Now, there’s a surprise. And that will also be true for local taxes because forcing local authorities in poor areas to increase their tax yield from local communities will massively increase local taxes in these areas by reducing redistribution to them from richer areas, where the rate may well fall as a result. Coun Steward and Coun Barton have every right to stand by TPA and their support of the richest in our society at the expense of the poorest. However distasteful the TPA's views may be, they should be congratulated for having the courage to stand up by their convictions and let the people of York know where their true loyalties lie. perplexed
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Sun 27 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

It's only the Rich vs the Poor in the eyes of those with no ambition, those who think they are owed a living, and those who are bitter, prejudiced and envious.

Poor people can become rich by working hard, many do. It's not a crime.

Without the rich, the country would be a poorer place.

The rich should be admired for the important role they play. They are big investors, big spenders, big contributors, big role models.

Ignore the bigotted rhetoric of perplexed and his/her left wing comrades - they are only happy when the poor become poorer - so they can use the misfortune of others for their political agenda.
It's only the Rich vs the Poor in the eyes of those with no ambition, those who think they are owed a living, and those who are bitter, prejudiced and envious. Poor people can become rich by working hard, many do. It's not a crime. Without the rich, the country would be a poorer place. The rich should be admired for the important role they play. They are big investors, big spenders, big contributors, big role models. Ignore the bigotted rhetoric of perplexed and his/her left wing comrades - they are only happy when the poor become poorer - so they can use the misfortune of others for their political agenda. Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Sun 27 Jan 13

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

Rich people are often very generous, fair minded, happy and friendly..

Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile.

Poor people have a choice - be positive, hopeful and ambitious, and you will be rich. It's not all about money, it's about how you feel and how you live your life ! .
Rich people are often very generous, fair minded, happy and friendly.. Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile. Poor people have a choice - be positive, hopeful and ambitious, and you will be rich. It's not all about money, it's about how you feel and how you live your life ! . Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

1:50pm Sun 27 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

So let's get this straight.
People can be either rich or left-wing?
So let's get this straight. People can be either rich or left-wing? Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Sun 27 Jan 13

perplexed says...

Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:
It's only the Rich vs the Poor in the eyes of those with no ambition, those who think they are owed a living, and those who are bitter, prejudiced and envious.

Poor people can become rich by working hard, many do. It's not a crime.

Without the rich, the country would be a poorer place.

The rich should be admired for the important role they play. They are big investors, big spenders, big contributors, big role models.

Ignore the bigotted rhetoric of perplexed and his/her left wing comrades - they are only happy when the poor become poorer - so they can use the misfortune of others for their political agenda.
Glad you agree the TPA's report is clearly biased in favour of the rich over of the poor. If you are uncomfortable with that, perhaps you might want to check out the TPA before you offer them your unquestioned loyalty! I am sure we would prefer a debate based on facts rather than childish remarks .

The TPA has every right to challenge Labour excesses( and long may it continue) but equally the TPA must be open to scrutiny concerning its own tax affairs and the accuracy of its statements. Or is transparency only one sided?

Your crude and rather lame characterisation of rich and poor, left and right serves only to intimidate and undermine the rule of democracy.
[quote][p][bold]Scarlet Pimpernel[/bold] wrote: It's only the Rich vs the Poor in the eyes of those with no ambition, those who think they are owed a living, and those who are bitter, prejudiced and envious. Poor people can become rich by working hard, many do. It's not a crime. Without the rich, the country would be a poorer place. The rich should be admired for the important role they play. They are big investors, big spenders, big contributors, big role models. Ignore the bigotted rhetoric of perplexed and his/her left wing comrades - they are only happy when the poor become poorer - so they can use the misfortune of others for their political agenda.[/p][/quote]Glad you agree the TPA's report is clearly biased in favour of the rich over of the poor. If you are uncomfortable with that, perhaps you might want to check out the TPA before you offer them your unquestioned loyalty! I am sure we would prefer a debate based on facts rather than childish remarks . The TPA has every right to challenge Labour excesses( and long may it continue) but equally the TPA must be open to scrutiny concerning its own tax affairs and the accuracy of its statements. Or is transparency only one sided? Your crude and rather lame characterisation of rich and poor, left and right serves only to intimidate and undermine the rule of democracy. perplexed
  • Score: 0

7:34am Mon 28 Jan 13

perplexed says...

Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:
Rich people are often very generous, fair minded, happy and friendly..

Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile.

Poor people have a choice - be positive, hopeful and ambitious, and you will be rich. It's not all about money, it's about how you feel and how you live your life ! .
'Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile'


By your own reckoning Pimpernel, perhaps we should be calling you comrade! After all, your preferred colour is scarlet.
[quote][p][bold]Scarlet Pimpernel[/bold] wrote: Rich people are often very generous, fair minded, happy and friendly.. Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile. Poor people have a choice - be positive, hopeful and ambitious, and you will be rich. It's not all about money, it's about how you feel and how you live your life ! .[/p][/quote]'Left wing people are mean spirited, greedy, angry, miserable and hostile' By your own reckoning Pimpernel, perhaps we should be calling you comrade! After all, your preferred colour is scarlet. perplexed
  • Score: 0

9:15am Mon 28 Jan 13

The Great Buda says...

Sadly Comrade Pimpernel is trying the old "divide and rule" tactic. He/She should probably lighten up abit and try enjoying life rather than money.

You don't need to be left-wing, right-wing or somewhere inbetween to see TPA are only in it for themslves.
Sadly Comrade Pimpernel is trying the old "divide and rule" tactic. He/She should probably lighten up abit and try enjoying life rather than money. You don't need to be left-wing, right-wing or somewhere inbetween to see TPA are only in it for themslves. The Great Buda
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Sat 2 Feb 13

oi oi savaloy says...

The Great Buda wrote:
"The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party"

Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....
james.... i have been a life long labour voter... i signed up to the alliance... am sick of my council tax going up year on end and getting less services for it!

and that is why i signed up..

the councils services really are not value for money to the full council tax payer..
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: "The alliance is not run by, or linked with the Conservative Party" Yet two members of said party rush to its defence.....[/p][/quote]james.... i have been a life long labour voter... i signed up to the alliance... am sick of my council tax going up year on end and getting less services for it! and that is why i signed up.. the councils services really are not value for money to the full council tax payer.. oi oi savaloy
  • Score: 0

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