Selfish attitude to an event worth millions

Thank you A P Cox (Letters, December 27) for reminding me how selfish and small-minded the anti-cyclist/pro-car lobby can be.

“Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists,” he moans, with relation to the Tour de France coming to Yorkshire.

No thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business.

Never mind the boost Yorkshire could receive from the privilege of hosting the world’s biggest annual sporting event.

Perhaps we should cancel it so drivers are not inconvenienced for a day.

S Shepherd, Danebury Drive, York.

 

• If I was the decision maker on upgrading roads for the Tour, I wouldn’t bother, have you seen some of the roads they race over in France? Terrible!

Bernard Lyne, Usher Park Road, Haxby, York.

Comments (16)

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9:18am Mon 31 Dec 12

scooterboy says...

the roads in France are amazing compared to our roads, why the the hell do we want it hear, its called tour de France for a reason?
the roads in France are amazing compared to our roads, why the the hell do we want it hear, its called tour de France for a reason? scooterboy
  • Score: 0

9:29am Mon 31 Dec 12

ak7274 says...

Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade? Or is this letter writer a member of the pro cycling/anti car brigade?
For love of God stop with all this singular, self righteous, I'm right and you're wrong claptrap.

We all use the roads in some shape or form and alienating each other makes no sense, but there again blinkered views never have made sense and the people who have them tend to have an IQ matched only by their shoe size.
Until groups get together and consult and compromise nothing will improve.

Drivers, Cyclists and even Pedestrians either make genuine mistakes or worse still show a distinct arrogance and lack of goodwill towards their own perceived enemy and if anyone can convince me the good in blaming everyone in the other camp helps the cause, then I'm open to persuasion.
Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade? Or is this letter writer a member of the pro cycling/anti car brigade? For love of God stop with all this singular, self righteous, I'm right and you're wrong claptrap. We all use the roads in some shape or form and alienating each other makes no sense, but there again blinkered views never have made sense and the people who have them tend to have an IQ matched only by their shoe size. Until groups get together and consult and compromise nothing will improve. Drivers, Cyclists and even Pedestrians either make genuine mistakes or worse still show a distinct arrogance and lack of goodwill towards their own perceived enemy and if anyone can convince me the good in blaming everyone in the other camp helps the cause, then I'm open to persuasion. ak7274
  • Score: 0

9:52am Mon 31 Dec 12

far2bizzy says...

I understand talks are on-going to do a ‘Monaco’ and bring the British Grand-Prix to York’s inner ring-road.

York has the ‘park and ride’ infrastructure to bring in thousands of people for the event. The bar walls and ramparts will form what would be the longest continuous grandstand yet conceived. Iconic views of the Minster’s west front, Clifford’s Tower and each of the bars with the cars beneath, jockeying for position, will bring an expected television audience of millions. The short straights and frequent turns are seen as providing a fairer test of man and machine, bringing more excitement to what is a generally mundane spectacle.

A clockwise rotation has been agreed and permanent pits are to be constructed next to the Barbican on Paragon Street.

Local civic groups were initially in favour as much street furniture would have to be removed, but they withdrew their support when it was pointed out that Walmgate Bar’s barbican would have to go.

Parts of the circuit have already been named – the Bootham shimmy, Castle Mills leap and Station Rise which-way.

A final date has yet to be agreed – watch this space.
I understand talks are on-going to do a ‘Monaco’ and bring the British Grand-Prix to York’s inner ring-road. York has the ‘park and ride’ infrastructure to bring in thousands of people for the event. The bar walls and ramparts will form what would be the longest continuous grandstand yet conceived. Iconic views of the Minster’s west front, Clifford’s Tower and each of the bars with the cars beneath, jockeying for position, will bring an expected television audience of millions. The short straights and frequent turns are seen as providing a fairer test of man and machine, bringing more excitement to what is a generally mundane spectacle. A clockwise rotation has been agreed and permanent pits are to be constructed next to the Barbican on Paragon Street. Local civic groups were initially in favour as much street furniture would have to be removed, but they withdrew their support when it was pointed out that Walmgate Bar’s barbican would have to go. Parts of the circuit have already been named – the Bootham shimmy, Castle Mills leap and Station Rise which-way. A final date has yet to be agreed – watch this space. far2bizzy
  • Score: 0

11:15am Mon 31 Dec 12

CynicaloldGit says...

I'm neither anti or pro cyclist in the sense of being either one way or the other in any debate regarding the things people do on the roads.
I'm a cyclist, motorcyclist and a car driver.
What I'm responding to is this part of the letter............"N
o thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business. "
Now I have been around this planet for 62 years now, and have never really believed in the trickle down effect, it always stops before the man in the street gets a bit.
So, while the TdF will make hoteliers and other businesses happy, how will it make the majority of people feel, if their lives are inconvenienced in many ways, without actually benefiting from the event.
If I know British business for what it is, you can bet that only a small percentage will be better off.
I remember visiting Hartlepool some years ago and I was admiring the new Marina and I mentioned to a local how lovely it was, and he agreed but then added "the problem is, see all these expensive boats moored, there is no way that any of the kids from the estates will benefit from any of this, only those that have the money to buy a boat then berth it here.
Very few of the people of Hartlepool, you know, those ones who have no job with little prospect of getting one, those that are working but on Min Wage, ever benefited from the Tall Ships, only business and Hoteliers. In fact, many of those who had to go to work, were greatly inconvenieced because the council painted double yellows all over the place, some even stopped locals parking outside their own homes.
So no, I don't believe that all benefit from such events.
I'm neither anti or pro cyclist in the sense of being either one way or the other in any debate regarding the things people do on the roads. I'm a cyclist, motorcyclist and a car driver. What I'm responding to is this part of the letter............"N o thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business. " Now I have been around this planet for 62 years now, and have never really believed in the trickle down effect, it always stops before the man in the street gets a bit. So, while the TdF will make hoteliers and other businesses happy, how will it make the majority of people feel, if their lives are inconvenienced in many ways, without actually benefiting from the event. If I know British business for what it is, you can bet that only a small percentage will be better off. I remember visiting Hartlepool some years ago and I was admiring the new Marina and I mentioned to a local how lovely it was, and he agreed but then added "the problem is, see all these expensive boats moored, there is no way that any of the kids from the estates will benefit from any of this, only those that have the money to buy a boat then berth it here. Very few of the people of Hartlepool, you know, those ones who have no job with little prospect of getting one, those that are working but on Min Wage, ever benefited from the Tall Ships, only business and Hoteliers. In fact, many of those who had to go to work, were greatly inconvenieced because the council painted double yellows all over the place, some even stopped locals parking outside their own homes. So no, I don't believe that all benefit from such events. CynicaloldGit
  • Score: 0

12:45pm Mon 31 Dec 12

pedalling paul says...

I remember all the hoo ha when advance notice was given of Holgate Road's closure to allow the Iron Bridge to be raised for electrification of the railway beneath. But York survived and we now have a lasting transport legacy.

Hopefully the TdF will encourage more long term cycling for local travel, and get some car trips off the roads at peak times......
I remember all the hoo ha when advance notice was given of Holgate Road's closure to allow the Iron Bridge to be raised for electrification of the railway beneath. But York survived and we now have a lasting transport legacy. Hopefully the TdF will encourage more long term cycling for local travel, and get some car trips off the roads at peak times...... pedalling paul
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Mon 31 Dec 12

Sillybillies says...

No thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business.

The result will be a huge loss due to the large numbers of potential tourists who will be put off coming. People who just want to stand by the roadside to watch the race go by will spend sweet FA in York. London lost £millions due to the Olympics.
[quote]No thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business.[/quote] The result will be a huge loss due to the large numbers of potential tourists who will be put off coming. People who just want to stand by the roadside to watch the race go by will spend sweet FA in York. London lost £millions due to the Olympics. Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Mon 31 Dec 12

YOYOYOY says...

ak7274 wrote:
Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade? Or is this letter writer a member of the pro cycling/anti car brigade?
For love of God stop with all this singular, self righteous, I'm right and you're wrong claptrap.

We all use the roads in some shape or form and alienating each other makes no sense, but there again blinkered views never have made sense and the people who have them tend to have an IQ matched only by their shoe size.
Until groups get together and consult and compromise nothing will improve.

Drivers, Cyclists and even Pedestrians either make genuine mistakes or worse still show a distinct arrogance and lack of goodwill towards their own perceived enemy and if anyone can convince me the good in blaming everyone in the other camp helps the cause, then I'm open to persuasion.
The letter writer (me) is a cyclist, driver and small business owner; pro cycling yes but definitely not anti car. I stand to be inconvenienced by the Tour traffic and road closures as much as everyone else but I can see the overall good. I'm saying all road users should and must get along be it everyday transport or an event like the Tour. I could not agree more that blinkered views help none of us and only serve to perpetuate a pointless argument.
[quote][p][bold]ak7274[/bold] wrote: Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade? Or is this letter writer a member of the pro cycling/anti car brigade? For love of God stop with all this singular, self righteous, I'm right and you're wrong claptrap. We all use the roads in some shape or form and alienating each other makes no sense, but there again blinkered views never have made sense and the people who have them tend to have an IQ matched only by their shoe size. Until groups get together and consult and compromise nothing will improve. Drivers, Cyclists and even Pedestrians either make genuine mistakes or worse still show a distinct arrogance and lack of goodwill towards their own perceived enemy and if anyone can convince me the good in blaming everyone in the other camp helps the cause, then I'm open to persuasion.[/p][/quote]The letter writer (me) is a cyclist, driver and small business owner; pro cycling yes but definitely not anti car. I stand to be inconvenienced by the Tour traffic and road closures as much as everyone else but I can see the overall good. I'm saying all road users should and must get along be it everyday transport or an event like the Tour. I could not agree more that blinkered views help none of us and only serve to perpetuate a pointless argument. YOYOYOY
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Mon 31 Dec 12

CynicaloldGit says...

Sillybillies wrote:
No thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business.

The result will be a huge loss due to the large numbers of potential tourists who will be put off coming. People who just want to stand by the roadside to watch the race go by will spend sweet FA in York. London lost £millions due to the Olympics.
I believe we do agree on something.
[quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: [quote]No thought for the thousands of hoteliers and small businesses of the region who stand to benefit from a considerable boost in business.[/quote] The result will be a huge loss due to the large numbers of potential tourists who will be put off coming. People who just want to stand by the roadside to watch the race go by will spend sweet FA in York. London lost £millions due to the Olympics.[/p][/quote]I believe we do agree on something. CynicaloldGit
  • Score: 0

2:42am Tue 1 Jan 13

Magicman! says...

ak7274:
Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade?

It is safe to presume that A P Cox is indeed part of the anti-cycle brigade simply because every single letter he writes in about any form of cycling has a negative spin on it... like Mike Usherwood but not quite as feverish or foaming at the mouth with anti-cycling rage!
ak7274: [quote]Was the Mr Cox actually a member of the anti cycling/pro car brigade?[/quote] It is safe to presume that A P Cox is indeed part of the anti-cycle brigade simply because every single letter he writes in about any form of cycling has a negative spin on it... like Mike Usherwood but not quite as feverish or foaming at the mouth with anti-cycling rage! Magicman!
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice.
Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice. Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Sillybillies says...

Interesting that we can comment on this but not AP Cox's original letter. No matter.
Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice.

AP Cox is quite right, but prejudice it isn't. It's an accurate statement of fact in relation to how how successive City of York councils have pandered to a very small minority to the great detriment by way of inconvenience and cost, to the vast majority of council tax payers.
Interesting that we can comment on this but not AP Cox's original letter. No matter. [quote]Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice.[/quote] AP Cox is quite right, but prejudice it isn't. It's an accurate statement of fact in relation to how how successive City of York councils have pandered to a very small minority to the great detriment by way of inconvenience and cost, to the vast majority of council tax payers. Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

5:56pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Buzz Light-year says...

Sillybillies wrote:
Interesting that we can comment on this but not AP Cox's original letter. No matter.
Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice.
AP Cox is quite right, but prejudice it isn't. It's an accurate statement of fact in relation to how how successive City of York councils have pandered to a very small minority to the great detriment by way of inconvenience and cost, to the vast majority of council tax payers.
Much as I know that replying to you is a complete waste of time and I risk being hounded round this site and having my innocent comments petulantly reported by you...

Ok SB. Proof that motorists are repeatedly made to suffer because of cyclists, please.
It's opinion. Prejudiced opinion.
[quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: Interesting that we can comment on this but not AP Cox's original letter. No matter. [quote]Indeed. A P Cox said "Once again motorists will have to suffer because of cyclists" which wrong in more than one way and is little more than his opinion based on prejudice.[/quote] AP Cox is quite right, but prejudice it isn't. It's an accurate statement of fact in relation to how how successive City of York councils have pandered to a very small minority to the great detriment by way of inconvenience and cost, to the vast majority of council tax payers.[/p][/quote]Much as I know that replying to you is a complete waste of time and I risk being hounded round this site and having my innocent comments petulantly reported by you... Ok SB. Proof that motorists are repeatedly made to suffer because of cyclists, please. It's opinion. Prejudiced opinion. Buzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

3:54am Thu 3 Jan 13

Magicman! says...

So Clifton Green counts for nothing then? where a minority of incessantly vocal motorists managed to get the end of Water End made more dangerous for cycles and emergency vehicles just so three more vehicles can fit in per phase change of the traffic lights? phases which on their own did not reduce traffic levels so the council tampered with the signal phasing to increase the amount of Green time at the cost of queues on the A19 increasing due to a longer red and the previous synchronisation with Rawcliffe Lane now having been lost?

Somehow in that warped little mind though, York only ever does things to favour cyclists.... despite cycle routes not getting leaves cleared off them (the Foss Islands route primarily) and not getting gritted or cleared during ice and snowy weather....
So Clifton Green counts for nothing then? where a minority of incessantly vocal motorists managed to get the end of Water End made more dangerous for cycles and emergency vehicles just so three more vehicles can fit in per phase change of the traffic lights? phases which on their own did not reduce traffic levels so the council tampered with the signal phasing to increase the amount of Green time at the cost of queues on the A19 increasing due to a longer red and the previous synchronisation with Rawcliffe Lane now having been lost? Somehow in that warped little mind though, York only ever does things to favour cyclists.... despite cycle routes not getting leaves cleared off them (the Foss Islands route primarily) and not getting gritted or cleared during ice and snowy weather.... Magicman!
  • Score: 0

3:12pm Thu 3 Jan 13

Sillybillies says...

Clifton Green is actually a prime example of how congestion was caused by pandering to the cycling minority. As soon as it was put back to what it was by the new Labour council, the improvement to traffic flow was immediate and remarkable, and as predicted. The alleged danger to cyclists is a delusion/downright lie, they can get off and walk, and it makes no difference to emergency vehicles.

I get the impression the hitherto long suffering driving majority is becoming vocal with a certain militancy in some places. Wouldn't take many allegedly broken down cars to cause Hepworth's long prayed for gridlock on Tour de France in 2014 day, would it?
Clifton Green is actually a prime example of how congestion was caused by pandering to the cycling minority. As soon as it was put back to what it was by the new Labour council, the improvement to traffic flow was immediate and remarkable, and as predicted. The alleged danger to cyclists is a delusion/downright lie, they can get off and walk, and it makes no difference to emergency vehicles. I get the impression the hitherto long suffering driving majority is becoming vocal with a certain militancy in some places. Wouldn't take many allegedly broken down cars to cause Hepworth's long prayed for gridlock on Tour de France in 2014 day, would it? Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

2:45am Fri 4 Jan 13

Magicman! says...

Clifton Green is actually a prime example of how congestion was caused by pandering to the cycling minority. As soon as it was put back to what it was by the new Labour council, the improvement to traffic flow was immediate and remarkable, and as predicted. The alleged danger to cyclists is a delusion/downright lie, they can get off and walk, and it makes no difference to emergency vehicles.


Obviously you didn't read my post so I will repeat it again....
just so three more vehicles can fit in per phase change of the traffic lights? phases which on their own did not reduce traffic levels so the council tampered with the signal phasing to increase the amount of Green time at the cost of queues on the A19 increasing due to a longer red and the previous synchronisation with Rawcliffe Lane now having been lost

The actual road marking alteration DID NOT alleviate any congestion at all, DID NOT. What did change things was changing the TRAFFIC LIGHT TIMINGS, which has now shifted the big queues from Water End to the A19. But there's no cycle lane been added along the A19 so motorists can't find anything to piggyback onto yet to try and get the queues reduce there.

Let's also remember that MOST car drivers seem to get on OK with cycles being around, it is only the vociferous minority (who also are the most vocal) that cannot stand having cycles around and so drive in the most dangerous way around cyclists. It is also this minority who still insts that THEIR journeys are the most important ones in the city and point-blank refuse to use other forms of transport, coming up with the most feeble idiotic excuses ever imagined... and at the same time will sit in a traffic queue and have the sheer audacity to blame cycles for the fact the person in the car is sitting in a queue. Well I have news for you sonny jim, magically go BINK and make the car dissappear and suddenly there's room for one more car on the road.... now make that magic happen several times because people have decided they'll use their bikes and you have more room on the roads for delivery drivers and like - people who DO have a real need to use the roads. An Optare Solo minibus (like the little blue transdev ones) carries about 30 people.... at peak times you'd be looking at about 80% of the cars in queues being single occupancy; and so that one little minibus would free up about 180 meters of road space whilst itself only taking the roadspace of a van. to put 180 meters in everyday terms, that is TEN BENDY BUSES of road space saved because some people actually decide other peoples' journeys are more important than their own.... and have the brainpower to realise it is them and not cycles who cause the traffic congestion.


And now my final point... "get off and walk". Not an option, because that is a change of transport mode. You are then a pedestrian and not a cyclist. Tell you what, How about I stick a line of concrete bollards down Gillygate... afterall, it's so close to the city centre people can just get out of their cars and walk can't they?! That is how stupid your logic is telling cyclists to get off their bikes and walk is. It is just utter trash, a load of mindless drivel from a feverish "I must drive everywhere because I pay Vehicle Excise Duty" mindset.
[quote]Clifton Green is actually a prime example of how congestion was caused by pandering to the cycling minority. As soon as it was put back to what it was by the new Labour council, the improvement to traffic flow was immediate and remarkable, and as predicted. The alleged danger to cyclists is a delusion/downright lie, they can get off and walk, and it makes no difference to emergency vehicles.[/quote] Obviously you didn't read my post so I will repeat it again.... [quote]just so three more vehicles can fit in per phase change of the traffic lights? phases which on their own did not reduce traffic levels so the council tampered with the signal phasing to increase the amount of Green time at the cost of queues on the A19 increasing due to a longer red and the previous synchronisation with Rawcliffe Lane now having been lost[/quote] The actual road marking alteration DID NOT alleviate any congestion at all, DID NOT. What did change things was changing the TRAFFIC LIGHT TIMINGS, which has now shifted the big queues from Water End to the A19. But there's no cycle lane been added along the A19 so motorists can't find anything to piggyback onto yet to try and get the queues reduce there. Let's also remember that MOST car drivers seem to get on OK with cycles being around, it is only the vociferous minority (who also are the most vocal) that cannot stand having cycles around and so drive in the most dangerous way around cyclists. It is also this minority who still insts that THEIR journeys are the most important ones in the city and point-blank refuse to use other forms of transport, coming up with the most feeble idiotic excuses ever imagined... and at the same time will sit in a traffic queue and have the sheer audacity to blame cycles for the fact the person in the car is sitting in a queue. Well I have news for you sonny jim, magically go BINK and make the car dissappear and suddenly there's room for one more car on the road.... now make that magic happen several times because people have decided they'll use their bikes and you have more room on the roads for delivery drivers and like - people who DO have a real need to use the roads. An Optare Solo minibus (like the little blue transdev ones) carries about 30 people.... at peak times you'd be looking at about 80% of the cars in queues being single occupancy; and so that one little minibus would free up about 180 meters of road space whilst itself only taking the roadspace of a van. to put 180 meters in everyday terms, that is TEN BENDY BUSES of road space saved because some people actually decide other peoples' journeys are more important than their own.... and have the brainpower to realise it is them and not cycles who cause the traffic congestion. And now my final point... "get off and walk". Not an option, because that is a change of transport mode. You are then a pedestrian and not a cyclist. Tell you what, How about I stick a line of concrete bollards down Gillygate... afterall, it's so close to the city centre people can just get out of their cars and walk can't they?! That is how stupid your logic is telling cyclists to get off their bikes and walk is. It is just utter trash, a load of mindless drivel from a feverish "I must drive everywhere because I pay Vehicle Excise Duty" mindset. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

2:18pm Sat 5 Jan 13

Sillybillies says...

Calm down dear, calm down!
Calm down dear, calm down! Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

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