Police vote dilemma (From York Press)
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Police vote dilemma
10:51am Friday 2nd November 2012 in Letters By Readers' letters
I UNDERSTAND the dilemma faced by Mr Howard (Letters, October 31). There is more information available on my website yorklabour.org.uk/police/ and I am happy to chat about the role at any time.
The problem we face is the lack of information for the public about the role and the lack of funding for a freepost delivery of electoral materials.
The Home Office has limited the number of words to 300 on the official choosemypcc.org.uk website and this makes it very difficult to describe how a candidate would tackle the role.
I hope residents do take part in the election. The turn-out is predicted to be very low and I would encourage people to use their vote.
Ruth Potter, Labour candidate for police and crime commissioner, Chaucer Street, York.
• POLICE commissioners – we have a choice of two politicians – which is no choice at all.
Not that there should be a choice. What next? Are we going to be asked to vote for the sheriff or perhaps the local dog-catcher on this Government’s Gadarene swine-like rush to self-destruction in their apparent wish to emulate the US system? I will go to the voting booth because I believe that is what we should all do. However I will write on my voting slip “this is wrong”. Would that everyone else does.
Leave policing to the police – they are the professionals. Do not allow inexperienced, would-be politicians to meddle with law and order. It is a recipe for disaster.
Major John Jessop, Dalby Mead, York.
• ANDREW Hitchon is quite right (Column, October 30) about the election for new police “supremos” – but with one reservation.
I have never not voted since I was old enough to vote, and shall go to my local polling station this time too.
But unless those politicians who have dreamed up this new idea have by then explained to us why it is an improvement on our present system of police authorities (including elected representatives), I shall cross out both names on the ballot paper and write in “Status Quo” – that is “no change”.
I fear few will vote, and why should they? The election day with nevertheless cost a huge sum – how much? And who pays the bill?
If 20 per cent vote, and half spoil their ballot papers, will the person with a majority still be declared to have been elected? It may be far fewer than 20 per cent. How few voters are needed to elect one candidate rather than the other? Democracy, did they say?
This seems to me rather like dictatorship. “We know what’s best for you, and whatever you think or say you are going to get it.” Roll on the next real election, when we can have a change at the top!
Sadly, but sincerely, Joyce Pickard, Hansom Place, York.
Comments(12)
Sillybillies
says...
2:06pm Fri 2 Nov 12
Julia Mulligan gets my vote and would do on those grounds alone, and in the absence of any other candidates to consider.
magic cat
says...
2:42pm Fri 2 Nov 12
Yorkphotographer
says...
3:18pm Fri 2 Nov 12
Sillybillies wrote:Julia Mulligan has absolutely no awareness of the police service or the issues they face.
Of the two candidates, Ruth Potter was a member of the Police Authority that failed to sack a corrupt and discredited Chief Constable. (So much for any suggestion that the former unelected Police Authority was any bloody good and better that an elected and accountable PCC!)
Julia Mulligan gets my vote and would do on those grounds alone, and in the absence of any other candidates to consider.
She wants to introduce parish constables these are special constables that focus on rural issues like speeding. North Yorkshire Police have been running a rolling recruitment for special constables for nearly 4 months. and are based at their nearest police station so unless she wants to fund more police stations then the constables will have to commute from the nearest station. a fact made all the more difficult by the fact that most Special Constables cannot drive a police vehicle due to lack of training. Because training a constable to response level takes three weeks. There are also no spare speed guns for the special constables to use so she needs to purchase more of those. oh wait... then they need training on their use! so lets look at your shopping list so far... £5k for initially training a special constable. £500+ on a speed gun for said constable then god knows how much to train them on it. several thousand pounds for the driving course for the said special which very few will be able to commit three weeks of their own time for free to do the driving course.
Julia wants to end the "slap on the wrist culture" to tackle anti social behaviour. quite how she wishes to effect that change is beyond me. The police have no powers beyond what the law gives them and the courts decide on punishments not the police service that's even if the CPS decide to charge them. neither the courts or the CPS come under police control so her plans are a little limited to say the least. Not to mention that operational policing matters belong to the chief constable not her.
If you want to vote for her silliebillies then you be my guest but your frequent complaints about the police service on these comment pages will only increase when she cuts vital money and spends it on misguided vanity projects to try and keep her cushty £71k pa job which is £284k over the 4 years minimum she will be in office.
please don't spoil your vote because the counter will just pull a face and place it in a pile. the real effect will be a no vote by not turning up. which is what i intend to do!
Sillybillies
says...
5:02pm Fri 2 Nov 12
The police have no powers beyond what the law gives them ....
And regularly fail to exercise, which is why they have lost control of the streets, for example York City centre on a night.
Yorkphotographer
says...
6:07pm Fri 2 Nov 12
Sillybillies wrote:a low number of officers on the streets in the first place means if one does make an arrest then it takes them off the streets for a minimum of two hours means officers have to be selective when it comes to exercising said powers. In fact unless you are privy to the conversation directly you can not possibly know what powers or laws they have invoked. For example you may think a constable has merely let someone off when they have infact issued them a direction to leave and bar them from entering licensed premises for up to 48 hours.
The police have no powers beyond what the law gives them ....
And regularly fail to exercise, which is why they have lost control of the streets, for example York City centre on a night.
said low numbers would decrease even further if Ms Mulligan is able to divert police resources to rural areas. Resources which would be invaluable in policing the night time economy such as York city centre which you claim police have lost control of.
if you have 10 police officers for the whole of york, they get called to a large scale fight outside a club they arrest 3 people for assault and send the rest on the way. that's three out of 5 vehicles you have to send to custody which if you are really unlucky could be northallerton/ harrogate. let's say for example 2 police officers per vehicle, that leaves you with 4 officers to cover the whole of york to respond to a domestic in huntington and perhaps a burglar in fulford at the same time. Now all your officers are committed.
let's look at an alternative. officers take all the details off all the people at the large scale fight. send everyone on their way with a direction to leave town for 24 hours. tell them if they want to make a complaint of assault when they are sober they can attend the police station and make a statement. Any persons who need to be can be arrested and charged at a later date when there are more officers on shift. you don't have to send 3 vehicles or 6 officers to baby sit some drunks in custody that they can't even interview because they are too drunk. The queens peace suitably kept.
now that's just an example that's not too far removed from reality.
Sillybillies
says...
11:42am Sat 3 Nov 12
Yorkphotographer
says...
3:14am Sun 4 Nov 12
Sillybillies wrote:a few drunks? you mean all those thousands of stag parties and hen parties and race weekend patrons that everyone in here complains is ruining the image of York city centre?
What a state the police are in today if they can't cope with a few drunks in a very small city centre. Mostly due to appalling organisation and leadership, and the ACPO ranks who have let this happen have a lot to answer for.
in truth it has nothing to do with ACPO ranks or poor leadership. but a mix of poorly resourced police force due to austerity measures and the increased incapability of people to behave and drink responsibly.
bolero
says...
1:05pm Sun 4 Nov 12
Sillybillies
says...
3:16pm Sun 4 Nov 12
in truth it has nothing to do with ACPO ranks or poor leadership. but a mix of poorly resourced police force due to austerity measures and the increased incapability of people to behave and drink responsibly.
The North Yorks Police were a joke long before any "austerity measures". came in. Irresponsible behaviour is discouraged by zero tolerance, locking 'em up, and getting 'em criminal convictions. That is to say, dealing with drunks and disorderly conduct properly.
Yorkphotographer
says...
4:05pm Sun 4 Nov 12
Sillybillies wrote:Again for the umpteenth time zero tolerance requires resources.
in truth it has nothing to do with ACPO ranks or poor leadership. but a mix of poorly resourced police force due to austerity measures and the increased incapability of people to behave and drink responsibly.
The North Yorks Police were a joke long before any "austerity measures". came in. Irresponsible behaviour is discouraged by zero tolerance, locking 'em up, and getting 'em criminal convictions. That is to say, dealing with drunks and disorderly conduct properly.
Resources that simply do not exist! unless funding increases they can not exist! would you be in favour of a rise in the precept on council tax to pay for these extra resources zero tolerance demands?
As for the criminal convictions that requires the courts and the criminal prosecution service to work properly both of which organisations are independent to the police service!
Your continued attacks against the police are misplaced and ill informed. I certainly agree with you that a zero tolerance approach would be ideal but unless funding for the required resources is found somewhere it simply can not happen.
Sillybillies
says...
2:29pm Mon 5 Nov 12
would you be in favour of a rise in the precept on council tax to pay for these extra resources zero tolerance demands?
We pay the highest provincial force precept already, and the service we get is very poor.
Zetkin says...
1:05pm Fri 2 Nov 12