Powering ahead with ‘green’ transport (From York Press)

Errr....Why not be innovative and rather than spending £60k+ on a fossil-fuel burning land-barge for the Lord Mayor, simply buy one of these?

I tell you why. They all have gerbil scrota for brains.

Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

And how prey tell, does the electricity reach the plug.?? Spout green credentials when, and only when huge investment in a public traffic infrastructure makes it affordable and DEPENDABLE enough to discourage private car use.

electric vehicles have come a long way, but the good ones are not being sold, the hybrids are ok for long journeys but for the average motorist with a

Coun Dave Merrett, cabinet member for transport issues, said: “We are determined to address the traffic-related air quality problems we have in York...then do something about the traffic light sequencing! the delays caused by the 'lights' at several junctions in York is either deliberate, or badly managed...which is Mr Merrett ??

rather have electric cars on our roads than bikes.

spiritofyork wrote:
rather have electric cars on our roads than bikes.

Agreed....At least they will need a licence to use the roads!

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

By the same logic, does computer ownership entitle you to fast broadband? Yes, it does. Because you pay for a computer and pay for broadband. I pay for a car and I pay for roads, yet I don't get a fast service. So Paul, unfortunately you are wrong.

Alas.

ON a different point, isn't Drax now bio-fuelled?

Also, hasn't it now been proven that over the 3-4 year lease of a typical company car, the savings on fuel don't actually outweigh the cost of buying hybrid?

My suggestion, if the council deems bus services good enough for the populus, is must surely be good enough for council employees.

Jazzper wrote:
Coun Dave Merrett, cabinet member for transport issues, said: “We are determined to address the traffic-related air quality problems we have in York...then do something about the traffic light sequencing! the delays caused by the 'lights' at several junctions in York is either deliberate, or badly managed...which is Mr Merrett ??

And also look at introducing river taxis & rail links for the P&R's instead of sending more bendy monsters down streets that were not designed for them

less 'green and sustainable' more dual carriageways and cycle lane disposal.

I think gas powered vehicles would be good for CoYC then they can use all that hot air from their endless consultations to power their vehicles as its no good for anything else

Nice to see Merrett taking advantage of the Traffic Warden strike by parking on double yellows.

I think gas powered vehicles would be good for CoYC then they can use all that hot air from their endless consultations to power their vehicles as its no good for anything else

The scheme is funded by Transport for London and the Department for Transport and also offers advice on recharging vehicles.
No wonder we have no money...What can the advice be..plug it in and make sure you dont use the battery up too quickly?
No doubt someone runs this quango at £150K plus pa and an 80% final salary pension!

Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs. You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passenger
NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY COMRADE MERRITT...FANCY WAITING FOR TRAFFIC WARDENS TO STRIKE FOR PHOTO OPPORTUNITY
PERHAPS A VOLUNTEER FINE INTO A YORK CHARITY FOR BEING CAUGHT ''IN FLAGRANTE'' WOULD BE IN ORDER

BigDog-LittleDog wrote:

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote: Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

By the same logic, does computer ownership entitle you to fast broadband? Yes, it does. Because you pay for a computer and pay for broadband. I pay for a car and I pay for roads, yet I don't get a fast service. So Paul, unfortunately you are wrong. Alas. ON a different point, isn't Drax now bio-fuelled? Also, hasn't it now been proven that over the 3-4 year lease of a typical company car, the savings on fuel don't actually outweigh the cost of buying hybrid? My suggestion, if the council deems bus services good enough for the populus, is must surely be good enough for council employees.

You're forgetting that thousands of other people also pay for a car and pay for roads. None of you get a fast service, because you all want to take the former onto the latter at the same time. Claiming that you have an "entitlement" to unimpeded car travel is simply meaningless, considering that the amount of space on the road will always be finite and that everyone else with a vehicle has as much right to use it as you have. You might as well say you're "entitled" not to get wet if you choose to wade through floodwater, because you paid for a pair of wellingtons.

Of course, as we all know, the response of some motorists is to clamour for other road users - who pay just as much as they do towards the maintenance of the urban road network, since it's funded from council tax - to be deprived of amenities in a futile attempt to relieve the motorists of the consequences of their own actions. As Coun Merrett knows.

meme wrote:
Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs. You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passenger
NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY COMRADE MERRITT...FANCY WAITING FOR TRAFFIC WARDENS TO STRIKE FOR PHOTO OPPORTUNITY
PERHAPS A VOLUNTEER FINE INTO A YORK CHARITY FOR BEING CAUGHT ''IN FLAGRANTE'' WOULD BE IN ORDER

No traffic wardens available at the time to issue a fine though....

We only have half a story here. What sort of vehicles are these replacing, or are they an addition to the fleet? What loads will these be carrying, how far, how often, what times of day?

Weak reporting from the press.

Hybrid / Electric vehicles are fine, but what about staff getting on their bikes? Can they walk to some appointments? Bus?

I appreciate this is an effort in reducing pollution but does nothing to reduce the number of vehicles - and that is the only true solution to the congested roads.

oy eye an the average working man can afford a hybrid??,get real most cars on york streets are about 1/1500 quid ,they are needed,most people who can afford these hybrid things seem to be upper middle class types, who drive round thinkin ,oh look at me how green am i ,get the lights workin properly...prob solved.get the traffic MOVING

Most cars on York streets are £1/1500. Most cars? as in more than 50%, not a hope of that being the case.

Have a look at the car park by Cliffords Tower. Locals park there, it's not all visitors. You're telling me that 51% plus of the cars there are valued at less than £1500! dear oh dear oh dear.

HOWEVER, I do agree that hybrids etc are not really an answer to any real problems. THis is mere shilly shallying around the problems of congestion and pollution. There is only one answer to that, a ban on private cars (with a few exceptions) in the city walls.

BigDog-LittleDog wrote:

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

By the same logic, does computer ownership entitle you to fast broadband? Yes, it does. Because you pay for a computer and pay for broadband. I pay for a car and I pay for roads, yet I don't get a fast service. So Paul, unfortunately you are wrong.

Alas.

ON a different point, isn't Drax now bio-fuelled?

Also, hasn't it now been proven that over the 3-4 year lease of a typical company car, the savings on fuel don't actually outweigh the cost of buying hybrid?

My suggestion, if the council deems bus services good enough for the populus, is must surely be good enough for council employees.

I pay for fast broadband as well, but I don't always receive anything like the advertised speed.
"Paying for roads" is a frequently misunderstood concept. Motorways, plus trunk roads like the A64 are funded by a mixture of all our national taxes, including VAT, income tax and vehicle excise duty. These same tax income streams also fund nuclear missiles, third world aid etc. I can't pedal on motorways, and would not voluntarily do so along the A64.
As subsequent commentators have pointed out, York's other roads including the A1237, and radial A roads to the city boundary, are funded by CoYC from Council Tax income. I contribute to all these national and local income streams (yes PP Towers does have a car on its forecourt.) So please don't tell me that I am not contributing towards road upkeep.
As for the yellow lines, I suspect that the Press photographer simply wanted to get a recognisable iconic background. This has unwittingly provided manna from heaven for some ill -minded contributors to this news item.

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

PP,its more likely a combination of things that help to create the traffic problems in York,like poor lights management,side roads restricted to access only,tour buses holding traffic back,badly parked delivery vehicles ect ect.

pedalling paul wrote:

BigDog-LittleDog wrote:

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

By the same logic, does computer ownership entitle you to fast broadband? Yes, it does. Because you pay for a computer and pay for broadband. I pay for a car and I pay for roads, yet I don't get a fast service. So Paul, unfortunately you are wrong.

Alas.

ON a different point, isn't Drax now bio-fuelled?

Also, hasn't it now been proven that over the 3-4 year lease of a typical company car, the savings on fuel don't actually outweigh the cost of buying hybrid?

My suggestion, if the council deems bus services good enough for the populus, is must surely be good enough for council employees.

I pay for fast broadband as well, but I don't always receive anything like the advertised speed.
"Paying for roads" is a frequently misunderstood concept. Motorways, plus trunk roads like the A64 are funded by a mixture of all our national taxes, including VAT, income tax and vehicle excise duty. These same tax income streams also fund nuclear missiles, third world aid etc. I can't pedal on motorways, and would not voluntarily do so along the A64.
As subsequent commentators have pointed out, York's other roads including the A1237, and radial A roads to the city boundary, are funded by CoYC from Council Tax income. I contribute to all these national and local income streams (yes PP Towers does have a car on its forecourt.) So please don't tell me that I am not contributing towards road upkeep.
As for the yellow lines, I suspect that the Press photographer simply wanted to get a recognisable iconic background. This has unwittingly provided manna from heaven for some ill -minded contributors to this news item.

PP. I have a new car and would like a photo with a iconic background,does this give me the right to illegally park for my photo I think not.

I saw one of these dishwashers on wheels the other day, on a french registration, and wondered what it was for - must have been a trial vehicle. Perhaps instead of a fleet of Zanussi's the council could have applied for money from the Better Bus Fund or the Green Bus Fund and got some electric/hybrid buses for the city (or perhaps they're hoping that the trial of Hybrid buses they did over a year ago ion the number 7 will eventually get forgotten about).

The dishwashers will likely pootle around the city at 15mph tops with a line of vehicles in it's wake... some might liken it to cycles, but the difference is the zanussi's on wheels are too big to overtake on city centre streets - and because they're electric they don't pay VED yet take up more road space. And they'll probably be driven badly just like Fiat 500's and Smart Cars are driven badly most of the time.

Why don't the council just sort out the traffic lights instead so that, just as an example, traffic can get from Knavesmire Gates on the Tadcaster Road right up to the train station on green lights? or if they get a red at the top of The Mount, as soon as that set goes green, the next sets go green as traffic gets to them - it's something PROPER traffic engineers call a 'green wave'. Perhaps too we could get rid of at least one of the two pedestrian crossings within 100 yards of each other at the train station, or at least sequence them together so that if traffic gets held up at one going red they don't get held up at the next one going red as well. Perhaps too we could get rid of the pointless red light for traffic going from the station up onto Lendal Bridge (it's not like there's another traffic flow that needs to access Lendal Bridge in that direction). Also, going a bit further out, perhaps the Junction of Hayleys Terrace and Huntington Road can get some traffic lights that actually work properly: by this I mean they go green for the traffic as it approaches the lights when there's no other traffic on the other set, that the road with the most traffic gets the green light, that the right turn filter comes ON when there's traffic waiting to turn (instead of the current setup where the filter only comes on when there's no traffic turning and vehicles waiting on the other road to go), and get rid of the traffic light set for those 6 houses beside fossway - or at least replace the sensor with a 'request for green' push button, as the current sensor malfunctions every time it rains and gives a green light to absolutely no vehicles every sequence change (and today it did it before Hayleys Terrace got a green light and then AFTER Hayleys Terrace went back to red as well) which is causing pointless queuing. This junction has been a pain in the ar$e ever since it was rebuilt... the traffic island seperating left and straight traffic from hayleys terrace should never have bene built and then buses would have enough room to turn without having to put 2 traffic lanes on city-bound Huntington Road down to just 1 lane; and each road exit where possible should have had a pedestrian refuge island in the middle so that green man lights could be seperated without having to hold everybody up for a minute with a "nanny phase" to guide over those too incompetant to judge when to cross a road by themselves!

Why not have a council owned and run monorail, this way we could avoid congestion and introduce a world renowned scheme, which would enhance yorks already Stella reputation for inner city transport.

@Magicman they have a top speed of 86mph, not 15.

I've seen them being used in French Cities for some time now and they are getting more popular. They make perfect sense for Council useage.

Caecilius wrote:

BigDog-LittleDog wrote:

pedalling paul wrote:

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote: Hybrid cars must be a cheaper alternative. Crawling around in York's traffic they're electric and when they speed up a bit (it must be possible for the council to organise a road somewhere where traffic can travel at more than 25mph) the petrol engine cuts in and charges the battery. This must be a better option than plugging into electricity from coal-powered Drax every evening. And, unlike the specimen in the photo, they don't look as if they were designed in a Japanese kindergarten.

Does ownership of a car entitle the driver to an urban road which can be drive along at 25mph? I think not! Don't blame CoYC for a situation that motorists create then whinge about.

By the same logic, does computer ownership entitle you to fast broadband? Yes, it does. Because you pay for a computer and pay for broadband. I pay for a car and I pay for roads, yet I don't get a fast service. So Paul, unfortunately you are wrong. Alas. ON a different point, isn't Drax now bio-fuelled? Also, hasn't it now been proven that over the 3-4 year lease of a typical company car, the savings on fuel don't actually outweigh the cost of buying hybrid? My suggestion, if the council deems bus services good enough for the populus, is must surely be good enough for council employees.

You're forgetting that thousands of other people also pay for a car and pay for roads. None of you get a fast service, because you all want to take the former onto the latter at the same time. Claiming that you have an "entitlement" to unimpeded car travel is simply meaningless, considering that the amount of space on the road will always be finite and that everyone else with a vehicle has as much right to use it as you have. You might as well say you're "entitled" not to get wet if you choose to wade through floodwater, because you paid for a pair of wellingtons.

Of course, as we all know, the response of some motorists is to clamour for other road users - who pay just as much as they do towards the maintenance of the urban road network, since it's funded from council tax - to be deprived of amenities in a futile attempt to relieve the motorists of the consequences of their own actions. As Coun Merrett knows.

I never said I was entitled to unimpeded car travel. I said I was entitled to FAST travel. THere is a subtle but key difference. I feel I have every right to be impeded, for example at schools and there are crossing guards. I have no objections to that, in fact I actively welcome the impediment if it means children are safe.

What I object to is paying thousands of pounds in tax, only for it all to get swallowed and not receive any benefit in any way. Or rather, certainly not sufficient value for money to justify the expense.

York is not a large enough city for public transport to work. There are simply too many satellite settlements which are virtually impossible to serve cost-effectively. York has an enormous commuter base. THese people drive - there really is no other way. At a result, they need roads.

Anyway, linking back to the story, I don't know average MPG figures of stationary vehicles, but I suggest it's poor. So maybe the council would like to encourage MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES if they want to improve air quality. Stationary cars help no one and nothing.

Maybe if the lazy-bones that drive less than 3 miles to work in the centre walked, cycled or took the bus instead of driving, there might be significantly reduce traffic congestion in this fine city of ours (OK- some people 'need' to drive if injured/ disabled).
On that, we do need better buses for this to work...
YCC are trying, gotta give them that much, but how do you stop 70-ish% of commuters driving short distances to work?
Big Dog Little Dog makes a valid point re: the size of York and sustainable commuting. To that end, do we as a city need some form of subsidy to help support development of decent commuter links? And for how long?
How do we fit a '21st Centuary' transport plan onto a city that is >800 yrs old?
We can't make it better without cash, and there isn't any to spend and if there was, the 'returns' would not be deemed 'feasable'...it's all just papering over the cracks.

Hybrid Cars. These are not Hybrid cars they are pure electric cars. Battery powered. A waste of time space and money. Battery life is not very good. Batteries can not yet be recycled so this is a enviromental disaster waiting to happen. Electric motors will not last anywhere near the life of a petrol or diesel engine and the cost of a replacement motor every 18 months or so will just not be cost affective. How many days will it take to go to London and back to York having to recharge the batteries every 50 miles or so for 4 hours per charge up. When everyone as got one what will the price of electricity be for recharging your car up. Its just a no brainer.