York tourism now worth more than £½ billion

New record for tourism spend

New record for tourism spend

First published in Business news
Last updated
York Press: Photograph of the Author by , Business editor

THE value of tourism to York’s economy has surpassed the half a billion pound mark for the first time.

Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record £606 million.

The figure is a third higher than the previous estimate of £443 million when research was last carried out in 2008.

The research combines the results from the tourism industry’s “Cambridge model” and the UK Events Market Trends Survey, which both provide estimates of the economic impact of tourism for destinations.

Findings also revealed that the proportion of visitors who stay overnight has risen from 17 per cent to 22 per cent since 2008; up from 1.2 million to 1.5 million.

Thanks to the seven million annual visitors, York’s tourism industry now supports an estimated 20,200 jobs which accounts for 20 per cent of the city’s workforce, putting York in the top ten destinations for the percentage of its workforce employed in tourism.

Kate McMullen, of Visit York said: “These statistics are fantastic news and mean we have exceeded our targets.

“It’s our strong partnership approach, working closely with York’s tourism businesses and their innovation that continually enables York to stay ahead of the competition.”

The research showed overnight visitors contribute £399 million, compared to £207 million from day visitors.

A quarter of visitor spend is attributable to conference and event visitors, despite them representing only 15 per cent of visitors.

Food and drink is the leading area of spend, followed closely by shopping, with leisure visitors spending £125 million and £116 million in each area respectively, up from £92 million and £54 million in 2008.

Jane Lady Gibson, chairman of Visit York, said: “These excellent results show we are on the right track and we now have ambitious plans, with partners in the city, to create a billion pound visitor economy for York by 2024.

“To successfully deliver on this we will raise our game still further, creating a sharper, more innovative approach to take tourism in York to the next level.”

Coun Sonja Crisp, City of York Council cabinet member for tourism, said: “Our aim has always been to concentrate on increasing the value of tourism in York, so we’re delighted with these latest results and we will continue to build on this success.’

Economic impact results for 2013 will be published later this year, however Visit York says early indications from its hotel occupancy and attractions surveys are positive, with both surveys anticipated to show a record year.

Comments (34)

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11:59am Mon 10 Feb 14

Blimp says...

Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image.

Brilliant, love it! More please.
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please. Blimp
  • Score: 28

12:18pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Fat Harry says...

£606,000,000!

If that was distributed evenly, we wouldn't need food banks.
£606,000,000! If that was distributed evenly, we wouldn't need food banks. Fat Harry
  • Score: 14

12:34pm Mon 10 Feb 14

yorkonafork says...

It will all go on 10th April when John Lewis opens....apparently
It will all go on 10th April when John Lewis opens....apparently yorkonafork
  • Score: 10

12:43pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Teabag1 says...

New Record for Tourism Spend ( on traffic fines ).
New Record for Tourism Spend ( on traffic fines ). Teabag1
  • Score: 3

1:23pm Mon 10 Feb 14

YorkPatrol says...

Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make

It makes no sence
[quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence YorkPatrol
  • Score: -12

1:33pm Mon 10 Feb 14

CaroleBaines says...

20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first.
20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first. CaroleBaines
  • Score: 24

1:45pm Mon 10 Feb 14

DaveBruebeck says...

YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make

It makes no sence
The irony.
[quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]The irony. DaveBruebeck
  • Score: 35

1:52pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Blimp says...

YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence
Thanks for reading every comment we make!

Brilliant... etc
[quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]Thanks for reading every comment we make! Brilliant... etc Blimp
  • Score: 14

2:06pm Mon 10 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

These are unquestionably impressive results which reflect the change being experienced nationally through the staycation culture that has developed following the economic down-turn. York as a rated tourists destination has benefitted considerably more than other areas as would be expected (+ve 20%, National AVG +ve 5%).

In 2008 it was reported 7.1 million visitors, currently we hear the 7 million visitor number frequently. So visitor numbers remain about the same but since 2008 the value increased £163 million.

Visitor number have remained about the same over 4 years.

(For comparison in 2006 we had 3.84 million visitors £311.8 million).

My question would be:

1. What happened between 2008 and 2012 that separated the same number of visitors from the additional £163 million.
2. What actions have been taken that address the stagnating visitor numbers (should get some interesting responses, maybe).
3. What happened after 2006 & 2008 that caused the visitor numbers to rocket from 3.84 million to 7 million visitors (even though Lendal Bridge was unrestricted, couldn't help myself sorry).

This is the concern:
Dean Court Hotel ‏@DeanCourtYork 2h
@jmalexander1982 @VisitYork
Pretty good ROI then James
More funding please!!

A private business believing the ROI (Return on Investment) has been key to the reported success. More funding to do what, what part of the funding if any made the difference. Public money being measured as a ROI for private enterprise prompting a direct request for more demonstrates a lack of insight and a tendency to disregard other business success criteria. Maybe Dean Court should be measuring their private enterprise success against ROCE (Return on Capital Employed) a measure over which they have complete control, rather than expecting a ROI from the public purse (already stretched).
These are unquestionably impressive results which reflect the change being experienced nationally through the staycation culture that has developed following the economic down-turn. York as a rated tourists destination has benefitted considerably more than other areas as would be expected (+ve 20%, National AVG +ve 5%). In 2008 it was reported 7.1 million visitors, currently we hear the 7 million visitor number frequently. So visitor numbers remain about the same but since 2008 the value increased £163 million. Visitor number have remained about the same over 4 years. (For comparison in 2006 we had 3.84 million visitors £311.8 million). My question would be: 1. What happened between 2008 and 2012 that separated the same number of visitors from the additional £163 million. 2. What actions have been taken that address the stagnating visitor numbers (should get some interesting responses, maybe). 3. What happened after 2006 & 2008 that caused the visitor numbers to rocket from 3.84 million to 7 million visitors (even though Lendal Bridge was unrestricted, couldn't help myself sorry). This is the concern: Dean Court Hotel ‏@DeanCourtYork 2h @jmalexander1982 @VisitYork Pretty good ROI then James More funding please!! A private business believing the ROI (Return on Investment) has been key to the reported success. More funding to do what, what part of the funding if any made the difference. Public money being measured as a ROI for private enterprise prompting a direct request for more demonstrates a lack of insight and a tendency to disregard other business success criteria. Maybe Dean Court should be measuring their private enterprise success against ROCE (Return on Capital Employed) a measure over which they have complete control, rather than expecting a ROI from the public purse (already stretched). YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -17

2:12pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Haywire says...

YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make

It makes no sence
No sence is nonsense!
[quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]No sence is nonsense! Haywire
  • Score: 17

2:34pm Mon 10 Feb 14

sounds weird but says...

So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure?
So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure? sounds weird but
  • Score: -7

2:40pm Mon 10 Feb 14

purpletimbo says...

sounds weird but wrote:
So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure?
Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million.

The 2012 should be a giveaway, second half of 2013 figures would reflect the bridge closure
[quote][p][bold]sounds weird but[/bold] wrote: So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure?[/p][/quote]Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million. The 2012 should be a giveaway, second half of 2013 figures would reflect the bridge closure purpletimbo
  • Score: -5

2:56pm Mon 10 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

sounds weird but wrote:
So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure?
One of the councils main reasons for restricting access to the bridge is to improve the public realm thereby attracting more visitors to the city.

Tends to lose the angle if 2007/2008 saw an increase of about 3.2 million visitors from 3.8 million to 7 million.

What happened to make the increase possible, no bridge restriction and yet a massive jump in visitor numbers.
[quote][p][bold]sounds weird but[/bold] wrote: So...how does this corrolate with the lendal bridge closure?[/p][/quote]One of the councils main reasons for restricting access to the bridge is to improve the public realm thereby attracting more visitors to the city. Tends to lose the angle if 2007/2008 saw an increase of about 3.2 million visitors from 3.8 million to 7 million. What happened to make the increase possible, no bridge restriction and yet a massive jump in visitor numbers. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -6

3:06pm Mon 10 Feb 14

sounds weird but says...

thanks,

I look forward to see seeing a later period reported to see if figures gow down or up..
thanks, I look forward to see seeing a later period reported to see if figures gow down or up.. sounds weird but
  • Score: 15

4:08pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Lunatic says...

Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right?

Right?
Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right? Right? Lunatic
  • Score: 33

4:22pm Mon 10 Feb 14

JasBro says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first.
On the other hand, York might not need sprucing up.

A record tourism spend seems to suggest it's OK as it is.

Perhaps tourists don't visit York for it's brand new paving slabs?
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: 20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first.[/p][/quote]On the other hand, York might not need sprucing up. A record tourism spend seems to suggest it's OK as it is. Perhaps tourists don't visit York for it's brand new paving slabs? JasBro
  • Score: -18

4:25pm Mon 10 Feb 14

JasBro says...

Lunatic wrote:
Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right?

Right?
2012.

"Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right? Right?[/p][/quote]2012. "Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million" JasBro
  • Score: -7

4:28pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Lunatic says...

JasBro wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right?

Right?
2012.

"Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"
Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it...
[quote][p][bold]JasBro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right? Right?[/p][/quote]2012. "Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"[/p][/quote]Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it... Lunatic
  • Score: 20

4:33pm Mon 10 Feb 14

JasBro says...

Lunatic wrote:
JasBro wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right?

Right?
2012.

"Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"
Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it...
Let's not start a discussion about Lendal Bridge when the article has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I don't know why you even mentioned it.
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JasBro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right? Right?[/p][/quote]2012. "Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"[/p][/quote]Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it...[/p][/quote]Let's not start a discussion about Lendal Bridge when the article has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I don't know why you even mentioned it. JasBro
  • Score: -8

4:45pm Mon 10 Feb 14

courier46 says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first.
To spruce would be ok to waste is not!!
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: 20,000 jobs. So next time we spruce up part of York and everyone says its a waste of money, maybe think about it a bit first.[/p][/quote]To spruce would be ok to waste is not!! courier46
  • Score: 8

4:51pm Mon 10 Feb 14

meme says...

Great news Long may it continue
Don't knock tourism.... we are all ambassadors for York
Great news Long may it continue Don't knock tourism.... we are all ambassadors for York meme
  • Score: 20

4:55pm Mon 10 Feb 14

chelk says...

I would not bet on the figures for 2013 being right they will manipulate them like they do for the comments on this site
I would not bet on the figures for 2013 being right they will manipulate them like they do for the comments on this site chelk
  • Score: -10

4:55pm Mon 10 Feb 14

MouseHouse says...

YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make

It makes no sence
The clue's in the name.
[quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]The clue's in the name. MouseHouse
  • Score: 21

5:12pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Abstemious says...

Lies, **** lies & statistics
Lies, **** lies & statistics Abstemious
  • Score: -5

5:29pm Mon 10 Feb 14

gmsgop says...

Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image.

Brilliant, love it! More please.
Errrrm, isn't that the junction that's going to get the 'reinvigorate makeover' ? Someone tell me I'm wrong please
[quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Errrrm, isn't that the junction that's going to get the 'reinvigorate makeover' ? Someone tell me I'm wrong please gmsgop
  • Score: -5

5:57pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

JasBro wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
JasBro wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right?

Right?
2012.

"Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"
Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it...
Let's not start a discussion about Lendal Bridge when the article has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I don't know why you even mentioned it.
Didn't you know? It's responsible for every social ill and municipal malaise in our fair city.
Why, only this morning I discovered the milk was off... Stupid bridge!
[quote][p][bold]JasBro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JasBro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote: Ah, this must be the effect of the Lendal Bridge closure keeping all the tourists away, right? Right?[/p][/quote]2012. "Research commissioned by Visit York, has revealed that visitor spend in 2012 hit a record breaking £606 million"[/p][/quote]Wait, you mean there was a time when the bridge was open? Goodness, I thought it had ALWAYS been closed and was permanently inaccessible from the way people were going on about it...[/p][/quote]Let's not start a discussion about Lendal Bridge when the article has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I don't know why you even mentioned it.[/p][/quote]Didn't you know? It's responsible for every social ill and municipal malaise in our fair city. Why, only this morning I discovered the milk was off... Stupid bridge! Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 17

6:05pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make

It makes no sence
It makes perfect sense. I love a good acronym, me.

Buzzz likes it, most pleasing.
[quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]It makes perfect sense. I love a good acronym, me. Buzzz likes it, most pleasing. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 25

6:21pm Mon 10 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

4:38pm Friday 16th November 2012 (Press Report).

Mrs Cruddas said 2012 had been a year of highs and lows, with hotel occupancy up two per cent in the year to September but visitor numbers to the city’s eight largest attractions down 7.6 per cent on last year, although York had performed well compared with other historic cities and a strong end to the year was forecast.

Gillian Cruddas does not seem to be indicating strong growth in her Nov 2012 report. It seems well balanced, no excitement confident finger on the pulse reporting. I think Gillian Cruddas would have known if 2012 had been extraordinarily outstanding against the previous year (not 2008).

Note she states a 7.6% drop in attraction visitor numbers against 2011. You will recall 2013 we were told attraction visitor numbers were 10% higher than 2012, so don't be surprised when we next read a 2013 report claiming a glorious improvement, which is only slightly above 2011 in reality.
4:38pm Friday 16th November 2012 (Press Report). Mrs Cruddas said 2012 had been a year of highs and lows, with hotel occupancy up two per cent in the year to September but visitor numbers to the city’s eight largest attractions down 7.6 per cent on last year, although York had performed well compared with other historic cities and a strong end to the year was forecast. Gillian Cruddas does not seem to be indicating strong growth in her Nov 2012 report. It seems well balanced, no excitement confident finger on the pulse reporting. I think Gillian Cruddas would have known if 2012 had been extraordinarily outstanding against the previous year (not 2008). Note she states a 7.6% drop in attraction visitor numbers against 2011. You will recall 2013 we were told attraction visitor numbers were 10% higher than 2012, so don't be surprised when we next read a 2013 report claiming a glorious improvement, which is only slightly above 2011 in reality. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -11

8:59pm Mon 10 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

The mark-down mongrel is working the magical score adjusting technique of a non-believer as I type.

Never mind, you have lots to do so go getem woof, woof.

so many postings, so many more days so many more reports.

Have a nice breakdown.
The mark-down mongrel is working the magical score adjusting technique of a non-believer as I type. Never mind, you have lots to do so go getem woof, woof. so many postings, so many more days so many more reports. Have a nice breakdown. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -12

10:23pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Malcolm says...

gmsgop wrote:
Blimp wrote:
Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image.

Brilliant, love it! More please.
Errrrm, isn't that the junction that's going to get the 'reinvigorate makeover' ? Someone tell me I'm wrong please
You're wrong.
[quote][p][bold]gmsgop[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Errrrm, isn't that the junction that's going to get the 'reinvigorate makeover' ? Someone tell me I'm wrong please[/p][/quote]You're wrong. Malcolm
  • Score: 6

7:41am Tue 11 Feb 14

pedalling paul says...

Brilliant! Love it! The more tourists the better!
Brilliant! Love it! The more tourists the better! pedalling paul
  • Score: 25

10:16am Tue 11 Feb 14

Scores On The Doors says...

The over night negative scores achievements awards are as follows.

Gold = YOUWILLDOASISAY -30
Silver = JasBro -22
Bronze = Abstemious -14

Only one award per person, well done to all who took part.
The over night negative scores achievements awards are as follows. Gold = YOUWILLDOASISAY -30 Silver = JasBro -22 Bronze = Abstemious -14 Only one award per person, well done to all who took part. Scores On The Doors
  • Score: -2

11:15am Tue 11 Feb 14

Igiveinthen says...

Scores On The Doors wrote:
The over night negative scores achievements awards are as follows. Gold = YOUWILLDOASISAY -30 Silver = JasBro -22 Bronze = Abstemious -14 Only one award per person, well done to all who took part.
Nice one!, I think we should all take these scores with a pinch of salt, sadly the pluss and minus scoring system no longer means anything and the press instead of ignoring it - OR PERHAPS THEY ARE IN COLUSION WITH IT? - should either remove it or devise another way of showing agreement or disagreement with a comment.
[quote][p][bold]Scores On The Doors[/bold] wrote: The over night negative scores achievements awards are as follows. Gold = YOUWILLDOASISAY -30 Silver = JasBro -22 Bronze = Abstemious -14 Only one award per person, well done to all who took part.[/p][/quote]Nice one!, I think we should all take these scores with a pinch of salt, sadly the pluss and minus scoring system no longer means anything and the press instead of ignoring it - OR PERHAPS THEY ARE IN COLUSION WITH IT? - should either remove it or devise another way of showing agreement or disagreement with a comment. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -2

1:34pm Tue 11 Feb 14

YorkPatrol says...

Blimp wrote:
YorkPatrol wrote:
Blimp wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.
Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence
Thanks for reading every comment we make! Brilliant... etc
We? Who's we?

Don't tell me there's more than one loon
[quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]YorkPatrol[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Blimp[/bold] wrote: Great photo - would make a good desktop calendar image. Brilliant, love it! More please.[/p][/quote]Will you stop saying "Brilliant, love it! More please" on every comment you make It makes no sence[/p][/quote]Thanks for reading every comment we make! Brilliant... etc[/p][/quote]We? Who's we? Don't tell me there's more than one loon YorkPatrol
  • Score: -6

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