New Park&Ride site to open with launch of fleet of electric buses

Cllr David Levine,right, and and Peter McCarthy of First York with an electric bus at its charging point at The Vanguard Centre Monks Cross

Cllr David Levine,right, and and Peter McCarthy of First York with an electric bus at its charging point at The Vanguard Centre Monks Cross

First published in News
Last updated

YORK'S newest Park&Ride site opens this weekend with the launch of a fleet of electric buses.

The latest 600-vehicle Park and Ride site at Poppleton Bar is due to open on Sunday as part of a £22.7 million pound project that includes a larger facility near to the current Askham Bar Park&Ride.

The six new buses - Optare Versa EVs - will be running on service 59 between Poppleton Bar and York city centre from Sunday.

The first EV will leave Poppleton Bar at 9.30am and will offer a frequent 10-minute service, seven days a week.

Peter McCarthy, manager of First Park & Ride which works with City of York Council, said: “We’re ready to welcome customers on board these fabulous new vehicles that offer free wi-fi and the latest in comfort.

“I’m sure this new environmentally-friendly way to travel will be a huge success and help reduce congestion in our city.”

Cllr David Levene, cabinet member for transport at the council, said: “York has become the first city in the North to introduce a new fleet of electric buses thanks to a successful bid in May last year, which awarded York £1.2 million funding towards new electric buses for York’s P&R network. Passengers can try these out on a number of services, including the brand new Poppleton Bar Park & Ride.

"Our aim is to encourage even more people to travel by bus and increase passenger numbers by 18 per cent by 2015. We know our ongoing work to improve services, will help to deliver real benefits for the city and for every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents.”

Work began on the Poppleton site last May and it is the largest transport infrastructure investment since the outer ring road was built in the 1980s.

The Park & Ride routes aim to transport customers into York in 15 minutes.

It is hoped the new sites will help cut congestion levels along routes into the city centre as well as offer low prices and free parking.

Comments (89)

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10:20am Fri 6 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on…..
"Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents"

So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!!

Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…
Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on….. "Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents" So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!! Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport… Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: -17

10:21am Fri 6 Jun 14

russeboy says...

What, really, this Sunday? The site doesn't look anywhere near ready - looks like the work has over run.
What, really, this Sunday? The site doesn't look anywhere near ready - looks like the work has over run. russeboy
  • Score: -15

10:33am Fri 6 Jun 14

CommonSense!! says...

Electric vehicles are so green! Yay.

The electricity they use just wafts into them from flowers and kittens and pretty clouds.

It certainly doesn't come from power stations, oh no.

Clowns.
Electric vehicles are so green! Yay. The electricity they use just wafts into them from flowers and kittens and pretty clouds. It certainly doesn't come from power stations, oh no. Clowns. CommonSense!!
  • Score: 11

10:45am Fri 6 Jun 14

Fat Harry says...

Ah yes, an article with the word "bus" and the word "council"...

Pavlov's dog, eat your heart out.
Ah yes, an article with the word "bus" and the word "council"... Pavlov's dog, eat your heart out. Fat Harry
  • Score: 93

10:52am Fri 6 Jun 14

SRT_CM says...

russeboy wrote:
What, really, this Sunday? The site doesn't look anywhere near ready - looks like the work has over run.
It has over-run. I was working in Bradford when it started last year, and went via the A59 towards Harrogate. The first signs said roadworks would be until the end of April 2014.

More recently the signs changed to May, and now I think they say the end of June?

But I agree, the junction doesn't seem anywhere near ready to me. The traffic heading to/from Leeds along that section of the ring road is usually backed-up for miles on a morning and night, so it certainly doesn't seem ready enough to start handling P&R busses and addition P&R traffic by Sunday unless they REALLY pull their fingers out.
[quote][p][bold]russeboy[/bold] wrote: What, really, this Sunday? The site doesn't look anywhere near ready - looks like the work has over run.[/p][/quote]It has over-run. I was working in Bradford when it started last year, and went via the A59 towards Harrogate. The first signs said roadworks would be until the end of April 2014. More recently the signs changed to May, and now I think they say the end of June? But I agree, the junction doesn't seem anywhere near ready to me. The traffic heading to/from Leeds along that section of the ring road is usually backed-up for miles on a morning and night, so it certainly doesn't seem ready enough to start handling P&R busses and addition P&R traffic by Sunday unless they REALLY pull their fingers out. SRT_CM
  • Score: -36

10:59am Fri 6 Jun 14

JNikko says...

The whole area is still a huge building site. There are enormous delays around the roundabout and the entrance to the P&R car park and Poppleton Garden Centre is orange bollard city! I am wondering how on earth it will be ready for that big French Bike Ride in July.
The whole area is still a huge building site. There are enormous delays around the roundabout and the entrance to the P&R car park and Poppleton Garden Centre is orange bollard city! I am wondering how on earth it will be ready for that big French Bike Ride in July. JNikko
  • Score: -29

11:54am Fri 6 Jun 14

Dr Brian says...

I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies!
I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies! Dr Brian
  • Score: -26

12:06pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Knavesmire view says...

There is more chance of Alexander and Merrett apologising for everything they've done than that junction being ready.

It will be absolute chaos, traffic is bad enough as it is without the Park and Ride starting up.

There seems to have been no concerted effort to get the works pushed forward, there is still an obvious lack of manpower at the sites.

Another farce instigated by this Council!
There is more chance of Alexander and Merrett apologising for everything they've done than that junction being ready. It will be absolute chaos, traffic is bad enough as it is without the Park and Ride starting up. There seems to have been no concerted effort to get the works pushed forward, there is still an obvious lack of manpower at the sites. Another farce instigated by this Council! Knavesmire view
  • Score: -2

12:45pm Fri 6 Jun 14

ouseswimmer says...

Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh!
Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh! ouseswimmer
  • Score: -3

12:53pm Fri 6 Jun 14

notmyrealname says...

don't worry folks. It'll all get finished in time for the TDF those all important three letters !
don't worry folks. It'll all get finished in time for the TDF those all important three letters ! notmyrealname
  • Score: -35

1:32pm Fri 6 Jun 14

york_chap says...

Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes.
Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes. york_chap
  • Score: -32

1:33pm Fri 6 Jun 14

piaggio1 says...

Just keep thinkin!
Edinboro= trams.
One complete c**k up .an costing millions.
Then i remember ....york....
Just keep thinkin! Edinboro= trams. One complete c**k up .an costing millions. Then i remember ....york.... piaggio1
  • Score: -26

1:36pm Fri 6 Jun 14

piaggio1 says...

Yep.holgate rd/poppy road still bad.do.s not help with the bus stopping outside the fox.....just holds everything up.
Yep.holgate rd/poppy road still bad.do.s not help with the bus stopping outside the fox.....just holds everything up. piaggio1
  • Score: -8

2:15pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Devils_advocate says...

Oooooh! - I think I've wet myself a little with the excitement!
Oooooh! - I think I've wet myself a little with the excitement! Devils_advocate
  • Score: -27

2:33pm Fri 6 Jun 14

yorkshirelad says...

Classic Press forum comments so far! What exactly is not to like about electric buses?
Of course they are environmentally friendly for 2 reasons:
a) the pollution they do produce (via Drax etc) is likely to be less breathed in by people (it disperses high up). We know that traffic fumes are harmful to people when produced locally.
b) Carbon production will be reduced at least a little as a small amount of UK electricity production is no or reduced carbon...and likely to increase as time goes on.

You've got to laugh about the no-noise comment...I remember someone sourly commenting about the Toyota Prius for similar reasons.

In reality, I think many people simply don't like anything different or new.
Classic Press forum comments so far! What exactly is not to like about electric buses? Of course they are environmentally friendly for 2 reasons: a) the pollution they do produce (via Drax etc) is likely to be less breathed in by people (it disperses high up). We know that traffic fumes are harmful to people when produced locally. b) Carbon production will be reduced at least a little as a small amount of UK electricity production is no or reduced carbon...and likely to increase as time goes on. You've got to laugh about the no-noise comment...I remember someone sourly commenting about the Toyota Prius for similar reasons. In reality, I think many people simply don't like anything different or new. yorkshirelad
  • Score: 53

2:47pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Budgie says...

The alteration at the roundabout not needed, all a waste of money and the traffic hold ups tests any persons patience,just of late only one exit lane access the roundabout and ring road from Boroughbride Road. The traffic build ups are very long to say the least.
The alteration at the roundabout not needed, all a waste of money and the traffic hold ups tests any persons patience,just of late only one exit lane access the roundabout and ring road from Boroughbride Road. The traffic build ups are very long to say the least. Budgie
  • Score: -7

2:50pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
Classic Press forum comments so far! What exactly is not to like about electric buses? Of course they are environmentally friendly for 2 reasons: a) the pollution they do produce (via Drax etc) is likely to be less breathed in by people (it disperses high up). We know that traffic fumes are harmful to people when produced locally. b) Carbon production will be reduced at least a little as a small amount of UK electricity production is no or reduced carbon...and likely to increase as time goes on. You've got to laugh about the no-noise comment...I remember someone sourly commenting about the Toyota Prius for similar reasons. In reality, I think many people simply don't like anything different or new.
Ok so lets put things into prospective.... 6 new busses are electric... all remaining busses aren't... how will this reduce pollution?

Cars have to now drive to the outskirts of York if they do indeed want to "park and ride". (not very green)

I think its the principle of saying a scheme will increase air quality (it wont) and reduce traffic (again which it won't) yes I’m all for green busses and there isn't too much slating them... but why locate it where it is and then alter the roundabout as it is...

Imagine if they left it as it was and just took some old p&r busses out of service and introduced more of these? 22m would buy you a lot more then 6!

After all if you are on about carbon payback look at all the civils works on the route and then tell me how many years it will take 6 busses to make that net zero? A lot of concrete used at both new areas...
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Classic Press forum comments so far! What exactly is not to like about electric buses? Of course they are environmentally friendly for 2 reasons: a) the pollution they do produce (via Drax etc) is likely to be less breathed in by people (it disperses high up). We know that traffic fumes are harmful to people when produced locally. b) Carbon production will be reduced at least a little as a small amount of UK electricity production is no or reduced carbon...and likely to increase as time goes on. You've got to laugh about the no-noise comment...I remember someone sourly commenting about the Toyota Prius for similar reasons. In reality, I think many people simply don't like anything different or new.[/p][/quote]Ok so lets put things into prospective.... 6 new busses are electric... all remaining busses aren't... how will this reduce pollution? Cars have to now drive to the outskirts of York if they do indeed want to "park and ride". (not very green) I think its the principle of saying a scheme will increase air quality (it wont) and reduce traffic (again which it won't) yes I’m all for green busses and there isn't too much slating them... but why locate it where it is and then alter the roundabout as it is... Imagine if they left it as it was and just took some old p&r busses out of service and introduced more of these? 22m would buy you a lot more then 6! After all if you are on about carbon payback look at all the civils works on the route and then tell me how many years it will take 6 busses to make that net zero? A lot of concrete used at both new areas... Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: -27

3:14pm Fri 6 Jun 14

yorkshirelad says...

The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives.

The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind.
The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives. The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind. yorkshirelad
  • Score: 171

3:22pm Fri 6 Jun 14

piaggio1 says...

But who makes it political ??????????.
But who makes it political ??????????. piaggio1
  • Score: 6

3:23pm Fri 6 Jun 14

big boy york says...

have in last hour come past the A59 park n ride its still a building site, mounds of earth n rubble everywhere how the hell have health n safety allowed it to open sunday i dont know, the roundabout is still not finished both sites are accidents waiting to happen, look forward to monday morning listening to travel news A59/1237 blocked any takers
have in last hour come past the A59 park n ride its still a building site, mounds of earth n rubble everywhere how the hell have health n safety allowed it to open sunday i dont know, the roundabout is still not finished both sites are accidents waiting to happen, look forward to monday morning listening to travel news A59/1237 blocked any takers big boy york
  • Score: -36

3:32pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives. The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind.
Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic? if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...

So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses) 2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!) 3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout) 4) reduce road accidents.. How?? 5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??

If you are as deluded to think that bus travel is the future and will solve all traffic congestion and pollution issues you might as well join pedalling plonkers group.. The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!! Not increase them. Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives. The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind.[/p][/quote]Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic? if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this... So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses) 2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!) 3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout) 4) reduce road accidents.. How?? 5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? If you are as deluded to think that bus travel is the future and will solve all traffic congestion and pollution issues you might as well join pedalling plonkers group.. The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!! Not increase them. Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!) Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: -25

3:45pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Caecilius says...

Dr Brian wrote:
I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies!
The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies![/p][/quote]The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads. Caecilius
  • Score: 52

3:58pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Caecilius wrote:
Dr Brian wrote: I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies!
The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.
Are you nuts? Yes narrowing the lanes to one in all directions has def not had an impact at all… I remember before all this started it was bad coming from the south.. all the rest no issues….. And yes encouraging more people to use the roundabout to get to the p&r will reduce this wont it!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies![/p][/quote]The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.[/p][/quote]Are you nuts? Yes narrowing the lanes to one in all directions has def not had an impact at all… I remember before all this started it was bad coming from the south.. all the rest no issues….. And yes encouraging more people to use the roundabout to get to the p&r will reduce this wont it!!!!! Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: -26

4:36pm Fri 6 Jun 14

BigJon says...

If the 6 electric vehicles are to be used on service 59 between the City and Poppleton Bar then why is it pictured at the Vanguard Centre, Monks Cross? And note to First, it's great that these buses have wifi for their passengers, now how about fitting it into the rest of the buses so that everyone can use it....
If the 6 electric vehicles are to be used on service 59 between the City and Poppleton Bar then why is it pictured at the Vanguard Centre, Monks Cross? And note to First, it's great that these buses have wifi for their passengers, now how about fitting it into the rest of the buses so that everyone can use it.... BigJon
  • Score: -18

4:49pm Fri 6 Jun 14

PKH says...

The article does not explain why the council has put a bus charging point at Monks Cross (picture), when the article is all about Poppy P&R site but that's CoYC and The Press for you.
The article does not explain why the council has put a bus charging point at Monks Cross (picture), when the article is all about Poppy P&R site but that's CoYC and The Press for you. PKH
  • Score: -32

5:28pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Brizo J says...

I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!!
please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!.
I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!! please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!. Brizo J
  • Score: -44

6:22pm Fri 6 Jun 14

daveyboy25 says...

Brizo J wrote:
I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!!
please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!.
Its park and ride, not grab a granny
[quote][p][bold]Brizo J[/bold] wrote: I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!! please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!.[/p][/quote]Its park and ride, not grab a granny daveyboy25
  • Score: -37

6:24pm Fri 6 Jun 14

daveyboy25 says...

Too many buses in york, should all be hourly services that will cut emmisions
Too many buses in york, should all be hourly services that will cut emmisions daveyboy25
  • Score: -34

6:57pm Fri 6 Jun 14

KevinWard59 says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on…..
"Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents"

So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!!

Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…
Always the problem with P & R - can't walk to the end of your street to use it 'cos it isn't allowed to stop there by - guess who???

So you need to drive/motorcycle/pus
hbike to P & R site & get charged 80p if you've got a bus pass - as visitors find out when they get on the bus - no advance visitor info on that one!.
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on….. "Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents" So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!! Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…[/p][/quote]Always the problem with P & R - can't walk to the end of your street to use it 'cos it isn't allowed to stop there by - guess who??? So you need to drive/motorcycle/pus hbike to P & R site & get charged 80p if you've got a bus pass - as visitors find out when they get on the bus - no advance visitor info on that one!. KevinWard59
  • Score: -21

7:03pm Fri 6 Jun 14

KevinWard59 says...

york_chap wrote:
Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes.
Main delays were created to convince P & R necessary and probably influence part funding as was for Designer Glenn and Foss Islands Road for Layerthorpe Bridge build.
[quote][p][bold]york_chap[/bold] wrote: Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes.[/p][/quote]Main delays were created to convince P & R necessary and probably influence part funding as was for Designer Glenn and Foss Islands Road for Layerthorpe Bridge build. KevinWard59
  • Score: -16

7:25pm Fri 6 Jun 14

KevinWard59 says...

Caecilius wrote:
Dr Brian wrote:
I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies!
The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.
This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.

That's the MASTERPLAN of CYC for the last 34 years - Didn't you know.

52 seater push bikes, rickshaws and 1 ton pallet carrying push bike trailers.

Now that will work.
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I hope York Press will send a photographer and journalist to the roundabout at Boroughbridge Road on Monday at 8 am and ask the council then if they can comment on the horrendous queues of traffic that this new scheme is suppose to be reducing It is a farce on their on a morning. Another transport **** up by Jimmy and his cronies![/p][/quote]The horrendous queues of traffic are caused by people choosing to travel by car - which is hardly the council's fault. This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads.[/p][/quote]This is at least an attempt to incentivise some of them not to carry on driving into York and thereby contributing to the tailbacks on the city's roads. That's the MASTERPLAN of CYC for the last 34 years - Didn't you know. 52 seater push bikes, rickshaws and 1 ton pallet carrying push bike trailers. Now that will work. KevinWard59
  • Score: -15

7:31pm Fri 6 Jun 14

rafa1961 says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on…..
"Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents"

So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!!

Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…
learn to spell BUS and BUSES
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on….. "Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents" So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!! Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…[/p][/quote]learn to spell BUS and BUSES rafa1961
  • Score: -9

7:33pm Fri 6 Jun 14

KevinWard59 says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
yorkshirelad wrote:
The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives. The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind.
Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic? if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...

So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses) 2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!) 3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout) 4) reduce road accidents.. How?? 5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??

If you are as deluded to think that bus travel is the future and will solve all traffic congestion and pollution issues you might as well join pedalling plonkers group.. The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!! Not increase them. Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!!

Yes and get them on their owners driveway as quickly and efficiently as possible - at home is not in a queue.

Lets see what happens on #RacedayNextSaturday
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: The short answer is that we have to start somewhere. With the massive challenge we all face...Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank goodness young people are a bit more positive in general about bit-by-bit environmental initiatives. The whinging negativity to any new initiative is simply an embarrasssment to York and I suspect is people with a tedious political axe to grind.[/p][/quote]Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic? if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this... So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses) 2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!) 3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout) 4) reduce road accidents.. How?? 5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? If you are as deluded to think that bus travel is the future and will solve all traffic congestion and pollution issues you might as well join pedalling plonkers group.. The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!! Not increase them. Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/p][/quote]The way to improve it is to actually take vehicles off the road!!! Yes and get them on their owners driveway as quickly and efficiently as possible - at home is not in a queue. Lets see what happens on #RacedayNextSaturday KevinWard59
  • Score: -13

7:34pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Alf Garnett says...

Funny that the angry brigade (right wing version) are kicking off about P&R as though it was an innovation and about electric buses because, well, they're new to York and, oh yes, the council has initiated the scheme. However, when UKIP get into power all these petty restrictions on private motoring in city centres will be rescinded and along with grammar schools we can go back to the fifties, except of course, there won't be any NHS.
Funny that the angry brigade (right wing version) are kicking off about P&R as though it was an innovation and about electric buses because, well, they're new to York and, oh yes, the council has initiated the scheme. However, when UKIP get into power all these petty restrictions on private motoring in city centres will be rescinded and along with grammar schools we can go back to the fifties, except of course, there won't be any NHS. Alf Garnett
  • Score: 147

7:46pm Fri 6 Jun 14

AJJYork says...

I understand that Electric Buses are supposed to be green, however, I don't know if anyone factors in the cost of disposal of the "battery" once it has spent. Not sure if this is even considered when calculating the carbon footprint. The cost of disposal used to outweigh the benefits and cost of using electric vehicles. Don't know if that has changed recently - I hope it has.
I understand that Electric Buses are supposed to be green, however, I don't know if anyone factors in the cost of disposal of the "battery" once it has spent. Not sure if this is even considered when calculating the carbon footprint. The cost of disposal used to outweigh the benefits and cost of using electric vehicles. Don't know if that has changed recently - I hope it has. AJJYork
  • Score: 14

7:55pm Fri 6 Jun 14

nottoooldtocare says...

Sorry to ruin the party, but I still can't see this working. Yes it's good that these are outside the ring road (who on earth thought Rawcliffe P&R was a good site should be shot!), but how much will it cost to get from Poppleton into York? I have not seen any mention of price, but I do know unless it's cheap it will be a white elephant.

Also, what's with the title Poppleton Bar? The site was a field FFS, the village isn't a walled City, so why not just call it Poppleton Park and Ride? Unless you've paid a vast sum for consultants to come up the name.
Sorry to ruin the party, but I still can't see this working. Yes it's good that these are outside the ring road (who on earth thought Rawcliffe P&R was a good site should be shot!), but how much will it cost to get from Poppleton into York? I have not seen any mention of price, but I do know unless it's cheap it will be a white elephant. Also, what's with the title Poppleton Bar? The site was a field FFS, the village isn't a walled City, so why not just call it Poppleton Park and Ride? Unless you've paid a vast sum for consultants to come up the name. nottoooldtocare
  • Score: 7

8:32pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Jack Ham says...

Interesting discussion on the left wing, political activist CYC have recently brought in as a new Director.

http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/features/read
ersletters/11255515.
Gridlock_over_20mph_
zones_cash/?action=s
uccess#comments
Interesting discussion on the left wing, political activist CYC have recently brought in as a new Director. http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/features/read ersletters/11255515. Gridlock_over_20mph_ zones_cash/?action=s uccess#comments Jack Ham
  • Score: 3

9:55pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Dave Ruddock says...

Just one small point, who is naming these places, and with what version of the word "BAR" are they using ??? (Public Bar. Metal Bar, ) cant be as in gates into the City of York (has there is no barbican,s at these Park and Ride Sites
Just one small point, who is naming these places, and with what version of the word "BAR" are they using ??? (Public Bar. Metal Bar, ) cant be as in gates into the City of York (has there is no barbican,s at these Park and Ride Sites Dave Ruddock
  • Score: 7

10:10pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Abdiel says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on…..
"Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents"

So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!!

Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…
What a bitter little man! I presume you used to drive to Askham Bar P.&R.?
Now you'll have to drive out a further 400 yds.
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Yes I think this scheme is genius! Providing 6 extra (green) busses in an area that doesn’t have that much population will draw more buss uses...I expect congestion to just stop all together! I mean busses cutting drivers up on roundabouts etc is efficient after all... Especially when if you do indeed want to park and ride and you live in York you'd have to drive out of York to park and hop on….. "Every £1 spent in York this project should deliver £4 of benefits by reducing congestion, improving air quality and health and reducing road accidents" So what timescales will this profit be realised? (100 years when robots rule the earth?) so this scheme will generate 88m?? Will it f@ck... reduce congestion? No it will increase it...(you have to drive to the car park that is outside of york. Then busses cause chaos as when they pull in cars can not overtake most of the time). Air quality? Yes 6 busses will prove all the difference in that. And oh yes road accidents... busses never just pull out and cause sudden braking.. or dangerous overtaking.. 6 busses will all but eliminate any type of road accidents.. DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN TAKE THE 20MPH SIGNS DOWN THEN??!!!!!! Hmmmm 22m would get you a fully up and running train link at askern bar, popleton and even re-opening the closed north York stations… but sure getting 6 busses on the road for this value is a far better way of getting vehicles off the road… pretty sure first didn’t offer any kind of deals to the council to increase their strong hold on the cities transport…[/p][/quote]What a bitter little man! I presume you used to drive to Askham Bar P.&R.? Now you'll have to drive out a further 400 yds. Abdiel
  • Score: 131

10:40pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Silver says...

Wait why do buses need wifi? Surely smart phones have their own internal modems and once you get to the city centre there's free wifi anyway. So what is the bonus of that?
I'll admit to being ignorant on the subject of smart phones as I'm still on my classic nokia (Hey the battery lasts a week) So could someone tell me the benefit of free wifi on a bus? I can understand a train but not a bus
Wait why do buses need wifi? Surely smart phones have their own internal modems and once you get to the city centre there's free wifi anyway. So what is the bonus of that? I'll admit to being ignorant on the subject of smart phones as I'm still on my classic nokia (Hey the battery lasts a week) So could someone tell me the benefit of free wifi on a bus? I can understand a train but not a bus Silver
  • Score: -41

10:44pm Fri 6 Jun 14

Knavesmire view says...

PKH wrote:
The article does not explain why the council has put a bus charging point at Monks Cross (picture), when the article is all about Poppy P&R site but that's CoYC and The Press for you.
Because the P&R they are advertising is still a building site even though it opens in 2 days, so they can't take a photo there.
[quote][p][bold]PKH[/bold] wrote: The article does not explain why the council has put a bus charging point at Monks Cross (picture), when the article is all about Poppy P&R site but that's CoYC and The Press for you.[/p][/quote]Because the P&R they are advertising is still a building site even though it opens in 2 days, so they can't take a photo there. Knavesmire view
  • Score: -94

11:09pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution.
Has the score adjuster woken up yet?
I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution. Has the score adjuster woken up yet? strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -99

11:14pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at.
By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?
Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at. By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine? strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -103

11:16pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Love the Free Parking advert on the bus. Its the bus fare which will cripple you.
Love the Free Parking advert on the bus. Its the bus fare which will cripple you. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -115

11:38pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I see I have had special treatment from the score adjuster probably just for mentioning it or maybe because I am close to the truth? Good on you thing you do spur me on.
I see I have had special treatment from the score adjuster probably just for mentioning it or maybe because I am close to the truth? Good on you thing you do spur me on. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -148

11:47pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Only minus 45 for my last comment on the thing getting lazy now.
Only minus 45 for my last comment on the thing getting lazy now. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -88

11:48pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

No I see we are -80 in the time it took me to post that response to the things changes.
No I see we are -80 in the time it took me to post that response to the things changes. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -62

11:49pm Fri 6 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Given up have we too much like hard work am I score adjusting thing?
Given up have we too much like hard work am I score adjusting thing? strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -83

12:55am Sat 7 Jun 14

growthorgreed says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at.
By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?
Paranoid? Moi??
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at. By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?[/p][/quote]Paranoid? Moi?? growthorgreed
  • Score: 38

1:17am Sat 7 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

growthorgreed wrote:
strangebuttrue? wrote:
Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at.
By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?
Paranoid? Moi??
Perhaps you would like people to think that the scores are not being adjusted and are a supporter of distortion of true public feeling?
[quote][p][bold]growthorgreed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at. By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?[/p][/quote]Paranoid? Moi??[/p][/quote]Perhaps you would like people to think that the scores are not being adjusted and are a supporter of distortion of true public feeling? strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -40

1:18am Sat 7 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
growthorgreed wrote:
strangebuttrue? wrote:
Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at.
By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?
Paranoid? Moi??
Perhaps you would like people to think that the scores are not being adjusted and are a supporter of distortion of true public feeling?
I see you have gained + 29 in the last 2 mins.
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]growthorgreed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: Ah I see the score adjusting thing has crawled out and is working on it right now. All the scores have been reversed in the last 20 mins. One more for it to have ago at. By the way is Mr Merrett just off camera holding the strings which control Mr Levine?[/p][/quote]Paranoid? Moi??[/p][/quote]Perhaps you would like people to think that the scores are not being adjusted and are a supporter of distortion of true public feeling?[/p][/quote]I see you have gained + 29 in the last 2 mins. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -54

4:47am Sat 7 Jun 14

Magicman! says...

ouseswimmer wrote:
Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh!
Oh don't worry... if you think the opinions of some commentards on the video of pedestrians not looking before they cross is anything to go by, if a pedestrian is injured by one of these buses it will *so obviously* be the fault of the bus because it was moving.

Ah, my tongue now seems to be stuck in my cheek.
[quote][p][bold]ouseswimmer[/bold] wrote: Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh![/p][/quote]Oh don't worry... if you think the opinions of some commentards on the video of pedestrians not looking before they cross is anything to go by, if a pedestrian is injured by one of these buses it will *so obviously* be the fault of the bus because it was moving. Ah, my tongue now seems to be stuck in my cheek. Magicman!
  • Score: 2

4:57am Sat 7 Jun 14

Magicman! says...

The press have been a tiny bit slow on this article about electric buses... the buses had been built by December, and even back then I had mentioned in comments on this site they were due for the Poppleton service.

They've been going round the city on test runs recently, and I've spotted a few photos of them online too. But this is only the first batch... there's another 6 of them being finished off at Optare currently, which are likely to see use across the rest of the P&R network with a focus on the Monks Cross route.

It's just a shame they won't be able to keep to the timetable in the morning due to the congestion along Holgate Road, coupled with the fact the bus lane runs out just at the critical point where a bus lane is really needed (but can't be fitted in as the road isn't wide enough). I also find it odd how the bus gates are set up, with Give Way markings for buses leaving the bus lane in conjunction with a single set of traffic lights for the normal vehicle lane... to have been properly environmentally-frie
ndly, the normal vehicle lane would have had Give Way signs and markings for the bus to have priority and no traffic lights - just a shame a number of drivers don't seem to know what 'Give Way' means, which means this layout would not be possible.
The press have been a tiny bit slow on this article about electric buses... the buses had been built by December, and even back then I had mentioned in comments on this site they were due for the Poppleton service. They've been going round the city on test runs recently, and I've spotted a few photos of them online too. But this is only the first batch... there's another 6 of them being finished off at Optare currently, which are likely to see use across the rest of the P&R network with a focus on the Monks Cross route. It's just a shame they won't be able to keep to the timetable in the morning due to the congestion along Holgate Road, coupled with the fact the bus lane runs out just at the critical point where a bus lane is really needed (but can't be fitted in as the road isn't wide enough). I also find it odd how the bus gates are set up, with Give Way markings for buses leaving the bus lane in conjunction with a single set of traffic lights for the normal vehicle lane... to have been properly environmentally-frie ndly, the normal vehicle lane would have had Give Way signs and markings for the bus to have priority and no traffic lights - just a shame a number of drivers don't seem to know what 'Give Way' means, which means this layout would not be possible. Magicman!
  • Score: 1

9:12am Sat 7 Jun 14

BigJon says...

Silver wrote:
Wait why do buses need wifi? Surely smart phones have their own internal modems and once you get to the city centre there's free wifi anyway. So what is the bonus of that?
I'll admit to being ignorant on the subject of smart phones as I'm still on my classic nokia (Hey the battery lasts a week) So could someone tell me the benefit of free wifi on a bus? I can understand a train but not a bus
The reason is that most service providers limit the amount of 'free' internet your phone can use in it's scheme and if you go over this it is usually quite expensive so being able to use free wifi means being able to use the internet without eating into this limit. Admittedly most p&r trips aren't that long so it won't benefit most people but hopefully if they put it into the p&r buses then they might end up putting it into the regular buses as well where trips are usually longer.
[quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote: Wait why do buses need wifi? Surely smart phones have their own internal modems and once you get to the city centre there's free wifi anyway. So what is the bonus of that? I'll admit to being ignorant on the subject of smart phones as I'm still on my classic nokia (Hey the battery lasts a week) So could someone tell me the benefit of free wifi on a bus? I can understand a train but not a bus[/p][/quote]The reason is that most service providers limit the amount of 'free' internet your phone can use in it's scheme and if you go over this it is usually quite expensive so being able to use free wifi means being able to use the internet without eating into this limit. Admittedly most p&r trips aren't that long so it won't benefit most people but hopefully if they put it into the p&r buses then they might end up putting it into the regular buses as well where trips are usually longer. BigJon
  • Score: 40

9:50am Sat 7 Jun 14

pbrowne2009@live.co.uk says...

ouseswimmer wrote:
Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh!
That has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read while scrolling down this comment section. Please tell me you are not one of these 'where there's a blame there's a claim' people. USE YOUR EYES IDIOT. Take responsibility for your own actions. I always learned to LOOK before I crossed the road.
[quote][p][bold]ouseswimmer[/bold] wrote: Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh![/p][/quote]That has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read while scrolling down this comment section. Please tell me you are not one of these 'where there's a blame there's a claim' people. USE YOUR EYES IDIOT. Take responsibility for your own actions. I always learned to LOOK before I crossed the road. pbrowne2009@live.co.uk
  • Score: 36

10:20am Sat 7 Jun 14

Stevie D says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
Love the Free Parking advert on the bus. Its the bus fare which will cripple you.
A return fare is £2.70 on all Park & Ride services, or £5.40 for a family with up to 4 kids. That's bluddy good value when you think that (a) all-day parking costs £11.50 in the main car parks, and (b) it's a lot cheaper than the commercial fares set by most/all bus companies running a similar distance.
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: Love the Free Parking advert on the bus. Its the bus fare which will cripple you.[/p][/quote]A return fare is £2.70 on all Park & Ride services, or £5.40 for a family with up to 4 kids. That's bluddy good value when you think that (a) all-day parking costs £11.50 in the main car parks, and (b) it's a lot cheaper than the commercial fares set by most/all bus companies running a similar distance. Stevie D
  • Score: 43

10:32am Sat 7 Jun 14

Stevie D says...

Brizo J wrote:
I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!!
please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!.
The whole point about Park & Ride is that it provides a fast service to get people into town quickly. Stopping at every stop along the way adds a lot of time, meaning that the journey takes longer. When the journey takes longer, it's less attractive to people coming from out of town (who the P&R is aimed at) and needs more buses to run the same level of service.

Why is P&R aimed at people from out of town rather than those living within the ring road? Because if you live within the ring road you really, really don't need to drive into town (unless you specifically need a vehicle when you get there, in which case it's a moot point), because it's within cycling distance, walking distance for many people, and there are usually frequent buses.

If you live out of York, it's not going to be walking distance, it won't be an acceptable cycle ride for many people, and there's a much smaller chance that you'll have a decent bus/train service into York. These are people who can't easily get from home to York without a car, but don't need to drive into town. A P&R bus can take 20–30 cars off the road and out of the city centre car parks, but it needs to offer an attractive service – ie, fast and cheap – otherwise people who are already in their cars will stay in their cars.

This is not unique to York. Most cities that have P&R networks run them non-stop or limited-stop. With the 5 and 10 on Boroughbridge Road, you're not doing badly!
[quote][p][bold]Brizo J[/bold] wrote: I Live off Boroughbridge Road and catch the bus into town, now no 59 every 10 mins great at last a decent service even a sundays!,, oh wait, i have to go to Windmill Rise to catch it and get off! well it was great for that 5 seconds!!!! please cant it stop more places on Boroghbridge Road? also between 8am and 9am dont expect 20 mins in to town think more like 40!!!.[/p][/quote]The whole point about Park & Ride is that it provides a fast service to get people into town quickly. Stopping at every stop along the way adds a lot of time, meaning that the journey takes longer. When the journey takes longer, it's less attractive to people coming from out of town (who the P&R is aimed at) and needs more buses to run the same level of service. Why is P&R aimed at people from out of town rather than those living within the ring road? Because if you live within the ring road you really, really don't need to drive into town (unless you specifically need a vehicle when you get there, in which case it's a moot point), because it's within cycling distance, walking distance for many people, and there are usually frequent buses. If you live out of York, it's not going to be walking distance, it won't be an acceptable cycle ride for many people, and there's a much smaller chance that you'll have a decent bus/train service into York. These are people who can't easily get from [italic]home[/italic] to York without a car, but don't need to drive into town. A P&R bus can take 20–30 cars off the road and out of the city centre car parks, but it needs to offer an attractive service – ie, fast and cheap – otherwise people who are already in their cars will stay in their cars. This is not unique to York. Most cities that have P&R networks run them non-stop or limited-stop. With the 5 and 10 on Boroughbridge Road, you're not doing badly! Stevie D
  • Score: 58

10:34am Sat 7 Jun 14

Stevie D says...

york_chap wrote:
Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes.
The timetable shows 20 minutes from Poppleton Bar to Clifford Street, going up to 25 minutes in the rush hour.

Hopefully once the service starts, people coming in on the A59 will quickly realise the value of P&R and every bus will take 20–30 cars off the road ... a drop in traffic of 150 cars every hour will make a huge improvement to traffic flow.
[quote][p][bold]york_chap[/bold] wrote: Are Holgate/Poppleton Road past the Fox and over Holgate bridge still as bad in the morning rush hour as they used to be? I haven't been that way at rush hour for a long time, but if so there's no way these buses will be in town within 15 minutes.[/p][/quote]The timetable shows 20 minutes from Poppleton Bar to Clifford Street, going up to 25 minutes in the rush hour. Hopefully once the service starts, people coming in on the A59 will quickly realise the value of P&R and every bus will take 20–30 cars off the road ... a drop in traffic of 150 cars every hour will make a huge improvement to traffic flow. Stevie D
  • Score: 50

10:59am Sat 7 Jun 14

Stevie D says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?

P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?

if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...

Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land.

And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.

So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)

Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.

2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)

If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.

3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)

The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?

4) reduce road accidents.. How??

Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.

5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??

NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.

Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
[quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!). Stevie D
  • Score: 42

12:51pm Sat 7 Jun 14

harrygilmore says...

I like the roundabout. But i am concerned about York schooling, judging by the spelling and grammar of the various replies.
I like the roundabout. But i am concerned about York schooling, judging by the spelling and grammar of the various replies. harrygilmore
  • Score: 8

1:52pm Sat 7 Jun 14

CaroleBaines says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution.
Has the score adjuster woken up yet?
I am batting on a bit, but when I was at school I can remember Boroughbridge Rd and Poppleton Rd queued up. It was often quicker to walk in rush hours. So not sure its to do with 'a con' and creating congestion by 'changing traffic light sequencing. ' Just my opinion.
As for the roundabout at A1237 and A59, as commentators have said above, I was amazed too when hearing the opening was this Sunday. Its total chaos on there and very much a building site.
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution. Has the score adjuster woken up yet?[/p][/quote]I am batting on a bit, but when I was at school I can remember Boroughbridge Rd and Poppleton Rd queued up. It was often quicker to walk in rush hours. So not sure its to do with 'a con' and creating congestion by 'changing traffic light sequencing. ' Just my opinion. As for the roundabout at A1237 and A59, as commentators have said above, I was amazed too when hearing the opening was this Sunday. Its total chaos on there and very much a building site. CaroleBaines
  • Score: 11

3:48pm Sat 7 Jun 14

kidology says...

pbrowne2009@live.co.
uk
wrote:
ouseswimmer wrote:
Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh!
That has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read while scrolling down this comment section. Please tell me you are not one of these 'where there's a blame there's a claim' people. USE YOUR EYES IDIOT. Take responsibility for your own actions. I always learned to LOOK before I crossed the road.
Yes great what if your blind another idiot
[quote][p][bold]pbrowne2009@live.co. uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ouseswimmer[/bold] wrote: Electric buses? These will be very silent then. How long before a pedestrian steps out into the road without looking and whoosh![/p][/quote]That has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read while scrolling down this comment section. Please tell me you are not one of these 'where there's a blame there's a claim' people. USE YOUR EYES IDIOT. Take responsibility for your own actions. I always learned to LOOK before I crossed the road.[/p][/quote]Yes great what if your blind another idiot kidology
  • Score: 3

3:55pm Sat 7 Jun 14

kidology says...

Yes see the blind will really love them look left and right you clown, have you noticed they are smaller buses every body will here what every body is saying .I reccon they will be silent nobody will want to let every one know what they are talking about.
Yes see the blind will really love them look left and right you clown, have you noticed they are smaller buses every body will here what every body is saying .I reccon they will be silent nobody will want to let every one know what they are talking about. kidology
  • Score: -3

9:02pm Sat 7 Jun 14

strangebuttrue? says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
strangebuttrue? wrote:
I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution.
Has the score adjuster woken up yet?
I am batting on a bit, but when I was at school I can remember Boroughbridge Rd and Poppleton Rd queued up. It was often quicker to walk in rush hours. So not sure its to do with 'a con' and creating congestion by 'changing traffic light sequencing. ' Just my opinion.
As for the roundabout at A1237 and A59, as commentators have said above, I was amazed too when hearing the opening was this Sunday. Its total chaos on there and very much a building site.
Yes you may remember those queues and so do I but then that was probably in a time when there was much more traffic than now. Don't forget the council say that we have less traffic now than in 2002. Sadly though we now have more congestion and far more pollution and longer journey times despite improvements in emissions technology and reduced volume of traffic. So how does that happen then? Is it that drivers of vehicles are all deliberately driving around at 10mph in first gear stopping and starting for no reason costing themselves a fortune in extra fuel and wear and tear and spending half their time getting to where they want to be just for the fun of it?

As for opening the site when it is not ready. Well why not? I mean some of those people who are stuck in those queues due to the ridiculously lengthy on-going road works will surly be convinced that P&R must be better the sitting in all that traffic and will be tempted into the site. Trouble is that when they finish the road works if the queues disappear then they may just drive on past again so how do you stop that happening. Think about it the council are.
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: I don't mind the principle of electric buses but this is another con by the council. In order for this P&R to be justified they first created massive congestion and pollution on Boroughbridge Road with the changes to the light sequences at Clifton Green when they installed the bike lane. The added pollution from that all day queue resulted in Salisbury Terrace being declared and AQMA (God help them as the councils record in other areas when this has been declared is to increase pollution by up to 48%). Then they went on to install the stupid bus lane and bus gates. This now results in vehicles having to stop and start again (400% more fuel) every time someone turns right off Borougbridge Road due to the narrowing of the lanes. Then we have the bus gates. Now most of these extra buses, like nearly all others in York, will run round virtually empty all day triggering these bus gates and stopping other vehicles even more frequently which will then have to set off again - more pollution. Add to that the additional traffic lights burning away all day which make Poppleton Road look like the Golden Mile and are short set to create the illusion of increasing traffic volume and the reality of congestion and pollution. These things alone will increase not reduce pollution. Has the score adjuster woken up yet?[/p][/quote]I am batting on a bit, but when I was at school I can remember Boroughbridge Rd and Poppleton Rd queued up. It was often quicker to walk in rush hours. So not sure its to do with 'a con' and creating congestion by 'changing traffic light sequencing. ' Just my opinion. As for the roundabout at A1237 and A59, as commentators have said above, I was amazed too when hearing the opening was this Sunday. Its total chaos on there and very much a building site.[/p][/quote]Yes you may remember those queues and so do I but then that was probably in a time when there was much more traffic than now. Don't forget the council say that we have less traffic now than in 2002. Sadly though we now have more congestion and far more pollution and longer journey times despite improvements in emissions technology and reduced volume of traffic. So how does that happen then? Is it that drivers of vehicles are all deliberately driving around at 10mph in first gear stopping and starting for no reason costing themselves a fortune in extra fuel and wear and tear and spending half their time getting to where they want to be just for the fun of it? As for opening the site when it is not ready. Well why not? I mean some of those people who are stuck in those queues due to the ridiculously lengthy on-going road works will surly be convinced that P&R must be better the sitting in all that traffic and will be tempted into the site. Trouble is that when they finish the road works if the queues disappear then they may just drive on past again so how do you stop that happening. Think about it the council are. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -77

3:17am Sun 8 Jun 14

Magicman! says...

Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?

P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?

if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...

Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land.

And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.

So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)

Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.

2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)

If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.

3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)

The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?

4) reduce road accidents.. How??

Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.

5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??

NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.

Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout.

To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

9:11am Sun 8 Jun 14

maybejustmaybe says...

Just driven past, signs say open but it doesn't look very appealing. Still looks like a building site, temporary lights on an unfinished junction with cones all over the place and no real signage.
Just driven past, signs say open but it doesn't look very appealing. Still looks like a building site, temporary lights on an unfinished junction with cones all over the place and no real signage. maybejustmaybe
  • Score: 5

2:49pm Sun 8 Jun 14

york_chap says...

I must admit that although I don't entirely agree with all the 'green credentials' arguments in favour of electric vehicles (as they're still largely powered by burning fossil fuels in power stations), it is good that the emissions will be taken away from the city centre. Diesel buses stink and only achieve about 7mpg around town; so as both a driver and pedestrian I can see the benefit here.

As for the p&r, it will definitely be useful for a lot of people and probably makes sense if you're going for a day at the shops/tourist attractions etc or if you work somewhere near the route. A lot of people will still find their car more convenient or suitable for their particular journey/destination, but at least there's the option of p&r for those who want it.

From my past use of the Rawcliffe p&r it was generally a good service, but school holidays, particularly during rush hour and general peak times saw a lot of issues with reliability/overcrow
ding/long queues etc. I don't have to use pay and display car parks; so now I tend mostly to use the car as for my journies it's much quicker, cheaper and more convenient - but if I was having to pay £10 per day or whatever it costs to park now, I'd probably put up with the p&r niggles and save my cash.

(Though to be fair, if it's 2 or more adults going into york for 3 - 4 hours, the car is still probably a comparable cost and certainly quicker/hassle free).
I must admit that although I don't entirely agree with all the 'green credentials' arguments in favour of electric vehicles (as they're still largely powered by burning fossil fuels in power stations), it is good that the emissions will be taken away from the city centre. Diesel buses stink and only achieve about 7mpg around town; so as both a driver and pedestrian I can see the benefit here. As for the p&r, it will definitely be useful for a lot of people and probably makes sense if you're going for a day at the shops/tourist attractions etc or if you work somewhere near the route. A lot of people will still find their car more convenient or suitable for their particular journey/destination, but at least there's the option of p&r for those who want it. From my past use of the Rawcliffe p&r it was generally a good service, but school holidays, particularly during rush hour and general peak times saw a lot of issues with reliability/overcrow ding/long queues etc. I don't have to use pay and display car parks; so now I tend mostly to use the car as for my journies it's much quicker, cheaper and more convenient - but if I was having to pay £10 per day or whatever it costs to park now, I'd probably put up with the p&r niggles and save my cash. (Though to be fair, if it's 2 or more adults going into york for 3 - 4 hours, the car is still probably a comparable cost and certainly quicker/hassle free). york_chap
  • Score: 5

4:07pm Sun 8 Jun 14

bishboy says...

Just passed 'Poppleton Bar' Park and Ride about 30 minutes ago. Looks like one of the new electric buses has broken down already, hitched up behind a big RRS recovery services truck.
Just passed 'Poppleton Bar' Park and Ride about 30 minutes ago. Looks like one of the new electric buses has broken down already, hitched up behind a big RRS recovery services truck. bishboy
  • Score: 7

9:54am Mon 9 Jun 14

Basher69 says...

I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.
I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway. Basher69
  • Score: 4

10:31am Mon 9 Jun 14

Stevie D says...

Basher69 wrote:
I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.
The stop at Holgate Park is to allow people who work in the business park to use the P&R to get to work, the same as people working in the city centre can. It isn't aimed at people travelling from Holgate into the city centre, because they've already got a good range of local buses.
[quote][p][bold]Basher69[/bold] wrote: I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.[/p][/quote]The stop at Holgate Park is to allow people who work in the business park to use the P&R to get to work, the same as people working in the city centre can. It isn't aimed at people travelling from Holgate into the city centre, because they've already got a good range of local buses. Stevie D
  • Score: 3

10:36am Mon 9 Jun 14

MrsHoney says...

Basher69 wrote:
I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.
Quite agree. And for those that think we're not doing too badly with the 5A and 10 service, that's rubbish. Whenever I've had to travel by bus the times have been very close together meaning at least 30 min wait inbetween. Rubbish timetabling. It's more sensible to have a bus stop further towards the outskirts seeing as it takes alot longer to walk from there, plus you can use both the no.5/5A and the no.1 the nearer town you get.
[quote][p][bold]Basher69[/bold] wrote: I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.[/p][/quote]Quite agree. And for those that think we're not doing too badly with the 5A and 10 service, that's rubbish. Whenever I've had to travel by bus the times have been very close together meaning at least 30 min wait inbetween. Rubbish timetabling. It's more sensible to have a bus stop further towards the outskirts seeing as it takes alot longer to walk from there, plus you can use both the no.5/5A and the no.1 the nearer town you get. MrsHoney
  • Score: 3

10:53am Mon 9 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh does it?? I didn’t know the one women I saw on the green park and ride this morning at 08:45 pulling into the station could drive 2-30 cars at one time?

Ah right so its based on the users outside of York that commute.... pretty funny as the majority of woodthorpe used to use the p&r as it was a quicker and better service then the 12..now they have to drive further and through more lights (just fyi that means more fumes!)…. Also if it’s not aimed at people from York how will it directly reduce traffic (i.e mon-fri when its not tourist central? The traffic there is caused by York commuters)? There are the same amount of cars? Its not as if the commuters come by car they come by train if they are not from york.

You’re next point please refer back to the bus I saw going to the station today at 08:45 with one old dear on...

Ah right so because there are 6 more busses there will be a reduction of car use? I see where you are coming from... but wait unless the other p&r's were full to capacity and turning people away previously (which they weren't) there will be no change in usage or not enough to deem 6 more busses essential? This would mean that there would simply be less people on each bus. Also with the new locations at traffic hot spots and horrible lighting sequences traffic will increase.

Ah yes... because traffic and speed causes accidents... back to back cars are a hazard to "tourists" wanting to cross the road... muppet.

And as previously mentioned 6 busses if they were used to their full capacity (like you say 20-30 cars) then there would be no impact on air quality.. Think of it as throwing a sausage down the m1. Also in the locations where they are if you do indeed want to commute people do it by train... or if there is a family I’d say the £2.50+ fair ew for mum and dad (£10 in total as you seem to be a bit blinkered and simple minded) could actually get you into the city centre in a parking spot.. where if you are not from York and came to York for shopping as 99% of people do, you could then put your bags in your car and drive off (in the same amount of traffic as on a bus) where as if you got the bus with a load of bags its not really shopping paradise...

I take not that in other cities somehow they have f@cked up transport more than this city… but I wouldn’t know as stated above if I do go to leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, London etc I go by train like everyone else.. not by car and then to get a bus.. that’s just backwards.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh does it?? I didn’t know the one women I saw on the green park and ride this morning at 08:45 pulling into the station could drive 2-30 cars at one time? Ah right so its based on the users outside of York that commute.... pretty funny as the majority of woodthorpe used to use the p&r as it was a quicker and better service then the 12..now they have to drive further and through more lights (just fyi that means more fumes!)…. Also if it’s not aimed at people from York how will it directly reduce traffic (i.e mon-fri when its not tourist central? The traffic there is caused by York commuters)? There are the same amount of cars? Its not as if the commuters come by car they come by train if they are not from york. You’re next point please refer back to the bus I saw going to the station today at 08:45 with one old dear on... Ah right so because there are 6 more busses there will be a reduction of car use? I see where you are coming from... but wait unless the other p&r's were full to capacity and turning people away previously (which they weren't) there will be no change in usage or not enough to deem 6 more busses essential? This would mean that there would simply be less people on each bus. Also with the new locations at traffic hot spots and horrible lighting sequences traffic will increase. Ah yes... because traffic and speed causes accidents... back to back cars are a hazard to "tourists" wanting to cross the road... muppet. And as previously mentioned 6 busses if they were used to their full capacity (like you say 20-30 cars) then there would be no impact on air quality.. Think of it as throwing a sausage down the m1. Also in the locations where they are if you do indeed want to commute people do it by train... or if there is a family I’d say the £2.50+ fair ew for mum and dad (£10 in total as you seem to be a bit blinkered and simple minded) could actually get you into the city centre in a parking spot.. where if you are not from York and came to York for shopping as 99% of people do, you could then put your bags in your car and drive off (in the same amount of traffic as on a bus) where as if you got the bus with a load of bags its not really shopping paradise... I take not that in other cities somehow they have f@cked up transport more than this city… but I wouldn’t know as stated above if I do go to leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, London etc I go by train like everyone else.. not by car and then to get a bus.. that’s just backwards. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 2

10:58am Mon 9 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars...

You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 2

11:03am Mon 9 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me)
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.[/p][/quote]Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me) Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 1

1:09pm Mon 9 Jun 14

tessah-York says...

Living on Boroughbridge Road, I have put up with years of roadworks leading to the implementation of this service, only to discover yesterday that the P&R won't stop ANYWHERE on Boroughbridge Road... goes from depot to Windmill rise. SO while I sit (30 min on m-f) or up to 80 min on a Sunday waiting for the number 10, 59s will go flying past me every 10 minutes. This is another initiative using taxpayers money to provide cheaper more efficient bus service to tourists and visitors, leaving the residents with the dregs. Charming.
Living on Boroughbridge Road, I have put up with years of roadworks leading to the implementation of this service, only to discover yesterday that the P&R won't stop ANYWHERE on Boroughbridge Road... goes from depot to Windmill rise. SO while I sit (30 min on m-f) or up to 80 min on a Sunday waiting for the number 10, 59s will go flying past me every 10 minutes. This is another initiative using taxpayers money to provide cheaper more efficient bus service to tourists and visitors, leaving the residents with the dregs. Charming. tessah-York
  • Score: 13

1:16pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

steve d- looks like your traffic reduction theory isn't going too well... day 2 of it being open and the press reports that heavier then normal traffic at this exact area... could this be a coinsidence??? or the start of another york black spot.
steve d- looks like your traffic reduction theory isn't going too well... day 2 of it being open and the press reports that heavier then normal traffic at this exact area... could this be a coinsidence??? or the start of another york black spot. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 5

5:52pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Basher69 says...

Stevie D wrote:
Basher69 wrote:
I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.
The stop at Holgate Park is to allow people who work in the business park to use the P&R to get to work, the same as people working in the city centre can. It isn't aimed at people travelling from Holgate into the city centre, because they've already got a good range of local buses.
Steve D.. You should explain who you are and who pays you.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Basher69[/bold] wrote: I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.[/p][/quote]The stop at Holgate Park is to allow people who work in the business park to use the P&R to get to work, the same as people working in the city centre can. It isn't aimed at people travelling from Holgate into the city centre, because they've already got a good range of local buses.[/p][/quote]Steve D.. You should explain who you are and who pays you. Basher69
  • Score: 3

6:42pm Mon 9 Jun 14

joejamestom says...

tessah-York wrote:
Living on Boroughbridge Road, I have put up with years of roadworks leading to the implementation of this service, only to discover yesterday that the P&R won't stop ANYWHERE on Boroughbridge Road... goes from depot to Windmill rise. SO while I sit (30 min on m-f) or up to 80 min on a Sunday waiting for the number 10, 59s will go flying past me every 10 minutes. This is another initiative using taxpayers money to provide cheaper more efficient bus service to tourists and visitors, leaving the residents with the dregs. Charming.
With you on this one, another great service for visitors & commuters but if you are a resident you are encouraged to clog up the ring road to use the service.
A stop at the old manor school is surely not much to ask to link up with services across Beckfield lane & give hard pressed rate payers some decent travel options & I really do not need too many more reasons not to go into the city center as it is.
[quote][p][bold]tessah-York[/bold] wrote: Living on Boroughbridge Road, I have put up with years of roadworks leading to the implementation of this service, only to discover yesterday that the P&R won't stop ANYWHERE on Boroughbridge Road... goes from depot to Windmill rise. SO while I sit (30 min on m-f) or up to 80 min on a Sunday waiting for the number 10, 59s will go flying past me every 10 minutes. This is another initiative using taxpayers money to provide cheaper more efficient bus service to tourists and visitors, leaving the residents with the dregs. Charming.[/p][/quote]With you on this one, another great service for visitors & commuters but if you are a resident you are encouraged to clog up the ring road to use the service. A stop at the old manor school is surely not much to ask to link up with services across Beckfield lane & give hard pressed rate payers some decent travel options & I really do not need too many more reasons not to go into the city center as it is. joejamestom
  • Score: 9

2:39pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
I see the first accident has happened today Stevie.... you theory of "less" cars less accidents seems flawed.....

So that’s increased traffic and no h&s benefit so far....
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]I see the first accident has happened today Stevie.... you theory of "less" cars less accidents seems flawed..... So that’s increased traffic and no h&s benefit so far.... Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 2

3:53am Wed 11 Jun 14

Magicman! says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars...

You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
errrrrmmmm... York's P&R has been running since the early 1990's, and with dedicated buses on the routes since 1996. Take a look around the car parks at 3pm, go round them all, and then imagine what York would be like if those P&R car parks weren't there and all those cars were in the city centre. Your "come back to me in 5 years" argument is void, because York's Park and Ride has been operating for 20 YEARS and so has had four times more than your suggestion to prove its worth... and any reasonable person would see that the fact the network is growing would show how successful it is.
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.[/p][/quote]errrrrmmmm... York's P&R has been running since the early 1990's, and with dedicated buses on the routes since 1996. Take a look around the car parks at 3pm, go round them all, and then imagine what York would be like if those P&R car parks weren't there and all those cars were in the city centre. Your "come back to me in 5 years" argument is void, because York's Park and Ride has been operating for 20 YEARS and so has had four times more than your suggestion to prove its worth... and any reasonable person would see that the fact the network is growing would show how successful it is. Magicman!
  • Score: -2

4:01am Wed 11 Jun 14

Magicman! says...

Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me)
The problem is that doesn't get around the fact that any train coming from Poppleton has to cross the Down Main in order to access the Up Main on the East Coast main Line in order to gain access into York station, or that from Water End the access into the station is only on 2 tracks (which at several times of the day are already at capacity), or the fact that the line from Poppleton is not electrified. Also worthy of note is if trains (or even tram-trains, if York was to ever get a tram network that could be connected into the railway) were to access the Poppleton P&R site, they would need to go across 2 level crossings - one of which is manually operated, so for as intensive a service as the buses operate it would mean these crossings would spend more time closed than they would open (especially the one in the village), which would then cause road traffic tailbacks.
Plus, bear in mind that when the Oldham Loop line in Manchester closed, Northern rail were ready to let the trains go as they didn't want to pay out to keep them on lease - it was only because TfGM provided subsidy that Northern kept those trains in order to strengthen services around the Calder Valley... so if Northern were relucant to fund two or three 30-year-old Pacer trains, how much less so would they be to electrify a line, provide a station, recast the entire timetable for that line (and other lines where the diagrams for those trains interact with diagrams on other lines) and provide the brand new rolling stock for the line.
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.[/p][/quote]Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me)[/p][/quote]The problem is that doesn't get around the fact that any train coming from Poppleton has to cross the Down Main in order to access the Up Main on the East Coast main Line in order to gain access into York station, or that from Water End the access into the station is only on 2 tracks (which at several times of the day are already at capacity), or the fact that the line from Poppleton is not electrified. Also worthy of note is if trains (or even tram-trains, if York was to ever get a tram network that could be connected into the railway) were to access the Poppleton P&R site, they would need to go across 2 level crossings - one of which is manually operated, so for as intensive a service as the buses operate it would mean these crossings would spend more time closed than they would open (especially the one in the village), which would then cause road traffic tailbacks. Plus, bear in mind that when the Oldham Loop line in Manchester closed, Northern rail were ready to let the trains go as they didn't want to pay out to keep them on lease - it was only because TfGM provided subsidy that Northern kept those trains in order to strengthen services around the Calder Valley... so if Northern were relucant to fund two or three 30-year-old Pacer trains, how much less so would they be to electrify a line, provide a station, recast the entire timetable for that line (and other lines where the diagrams for those trains interact with diagrams on other lines) and provide the brand new rolling stock for the line. Magicman!
  • Score: -1

10:29am Wed 11 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Magicman! wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
errrrrmmmm... York's P&R has been running since the early 1990's, and with dedicated buses on the routes since 1996. Take a look around the car parks at 3pm, go round them all, and then imagine what York would be like if those P&R car parks weren't there and all those cars were in the city centre. Your "come back to me in 5 years" argument is void, because York's Park and Ride has been operating for 20 YEARS and so has had four times more than your suggestion to prove its worth... and any reasonable person would see that the fact the network is growing would show how successful it is.
Are you mad? yes ok the original Tesco one has been around for that amount of time. Is it at full capacity parking wise? no! And has it increased in demand recently no? Is it not also true that car usage has not increased since that period but traffic has worsened? So explain that if it’s such a good scheme? You can get a city centre parking spot for £70 a month... Travelling by p&r costs a worker more like £100 a month... so please explain why you would use it? Lets get one thing right here there are two new park and ride hubs… some road alterations and 22.5m investment…. If you think that is money well spent and now yorks traffic has reduced please demonstrate it?

2nd day ive seen a green bus this week... which this time was empty (the other day it had 1 lady on) so how on earth is my argument flawed if at peak commuter times the "new" p&r area is not getting customers? Is 1 customer at peak time per day going to repay the £4 for every £1 spent? You are delusional if you think that 400 cars on yorks roads (say the max how many cars are at a p&r per day) would make any bit of difference.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.[/p][/quote]errrrrmmmm... York's P&R has been running since the early 1990's, and with dedicated buses on the routes since 1996. Take a look around the car parks at 3pm, go round them all, and then imagine what York would be like if those P&R car parks weren't there and all those cars were in the city centre. Your "come back to me in 5 years" argument is void, because York's Park and Ride has been operating for 20 YEARS and so has had four times more than your suggestion to prove its worth... and any reasonable person would see that the fact the network is growing would show how successful it is.[/p][/quote]Are you mad? yes ok the original Tesco one has been around for that amount of time. Is it at full capacity parking wise? no! And has it increased in demand recently no? Is it not also true that car usage has not increased since that period but traffic has worsened? So explain that if it’s such a good scheme? You can get a city centre parking spot for £70 a month... Travelling by p&r costs a worker more like £100 a month... so please explain why you would use it? Lets get one thing right here there are two new park and ride hubs… some road alterations and 22.5m investment…. If you think that is money well spent and now yorks traffic has reduced please demonstrate it? 2nd day ive seen a green bus this week... which this time was empty (the other day it had 1 lady on) so how on earth is my argument flawed if at peak commuter times the "new" p&r area is not getting customers? Is 1 customer at peak time per day going to repay the £4 for every £1 spent? You are delusional if you think that 400 cars on yorks roads (say the max how many cars are at a p&r per day) would make any bit of difference. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 3

10:43am Wed 11 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

Magicman! wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote:
Magicman! wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Archiebold the 1st wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?
P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option?
if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...
Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be less attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus.
So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)
Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple.
2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)
If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple.
3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)
The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand?
4) reduce road accidents.. How??
Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York.
5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it??
NO! There will be fewer cars because lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)
If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).
It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.
Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.
Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me)
The problem is that doesn't get around the fact that any train coming from Poppleton has to cross the Down Main in order to access the Up Main on the East Coast main Line in order to gain access into York station, or that from Water End the access into the station is only on 2 tracks (which at several times of the day are already at capacity), or the fact that the line from Poppleton is not electrified. Also worthy of note is if trains (or even tram-trains, if York was to ever get a tram network that could be connected into the railway) were to access the Poppleton P&R site, they would need to go across 2 level crossings - one of which is manually operated, so for as intensive a service as the buses operate it would mean these crossings would spend more time closed than they would open (especially the one in the village), which would then cause road traffic tailbacks. Plus, bear in mind that when the Oldham Loop line in Manchester closed, Northern rail were ready to let the trains go as they didn't want to pay out to keep them on lease - it was only because TfGM provided subsidy that Northern kept those trains in order to strengthen services around the Calder Valley... so if Northern were relucant to fund two or three 30-year-old Pacer trains, how much less so would they be to electrify a line, provide a station, recast the entire timetable for that line (and other lines where the diagrams for those trains interact with diagrams on other lines) and provide the brand new rolling stock for the line.
Magicman please just stop talking cr@p about things you have no idea about.... the route you refer to is the “Harrogate” line. It is to the west of york. It does not cross the ECML!

Upper poppleton already has a station. Why not increase parking capacity there? I was not suggesting using the exact same location for this! I would suggest somewhere along the existing route!!!!!! (Personally I wouldn’t put a p&r car park where it is! It’s at a major junction that is tail backed)

And as for crossings being down (btw manually operated crossings are faster then auto!) how would this be the case by using the EXISTING TRAINS ON THE TRACK??!!!!. It is just another stop for the train to make on its normal route! The routes are not at capacity so stop talking sh@t.

Yes some areas of the route are not electrified but either way this would not matter as northern run diesels! My point is it makes allowance for future aspirations! By removing road traffic and adding more people onto trains you are in fact reducing emissions & traffic!

As for northern not funding the OHL.... I’d hope not as network rail are the infrastructure owner and their business plans dictate for such a plan. Northern would however contribute to stations as it would increase their revenues each year.

HOW CAN I MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER... YOU DO NOT NEED MORE TRAINS... YOU DO NOT NEED TO ELECTRIFY LINES... YOU DO NOT CAUSE LX'INGS TO BE DOWN FOR LONGER.... YOU SIMPLY USE THE EXISTING TRAINS AND LINES BUT ADD A STOP IN NEXT TO A LARGE CARPARK (TO BE BUILT!) WHICH WOULD REDUCE "ROAD" TRAFFIC AND REDUCE EMMISSIONS.... AS THE TRAIN IS ALREADY RUNNING AS PER A TIMETABLE THERE WOULD ALSO BE NO WASTED JOURNEYS AS PER THE EMPTY GREEN BUS SIMPLY CAUSING ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC THIS MORNING.

If you want to discuss how simply and cheap this option is compared to ripping up roads and changing roundabouts for a service that will be obsolete in 10 years feel free. But please research what you say or at least have an insight as to what you are spouting.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: Or maybe people don’t see having more vehicles on the road as a way of reducing traffic?[/quote] P&R has been effective in reducing congestion on other routes where it has been used. Can you imagine how much worse congestion in York would be if the thousands of people who use P&R every day didn't have that option? [quote]if the council (whatever party) actually invested like all other cities in other rail hubs then people could driver there... park... and get to York traffic free? For 22m they could have done this...[/quote] Don't be daft. A basic 2-carriage train costs about £4m, and you would need at least two trains on each route to maintain a frequent service. A basic station costs about the same. Plus the cost of the car park and road improvements to get cars in there. Plus the cost of remodelling the north and south approaches to York station, because there's no way you're going to be able to get an extra 4 trains an hour each way in and out of the station without some major improvements. The capital cost would be about double what it has cost to build Poppleton Bar and improve Askham Bar, and the operating costs are a lot higher and therefore unlikely to be recouped by fares at current levels. The idea that passengers could travel free and it would be cheaper is just plain cloud cuckoo land. And while a train would be quicker, it (obviously) only goes as far as the station, which is not as convenient for the city centre as Clifford Street is, so the train could be [italic]less[/italic] attractive to a lot of passengers than the bus. [quote]So no funnily enough I don't see 6 new electric busses and a sh@te road layout as a positive to achieve 1) less pollution (how its just a zero impact for 6 new busses)[/quote] Each bus on the road replaces 20–30 cars at busy times, meaning less pollution. It's simple. [quote]2) encourage more buss users (i wont be driving out of York to go back in!)[/quote] If you live in York, it's not aimed at you, because you already have an adequate or better bus service. People living in towns and villages further afield often don't. It's simple. [quote]3) reduce traffic (again now we have 6 more busses to deal with as well as a naff roundabout)[/quote] The buses won't be empty, just like the ones running on the other P&R routes aren't empty. They are very well used, so every bus is taking the place of 20–30 other cars. How many more times do we need to say that before you'll understand? [quote]4) reduce road accidents.. How??[/quote] Less traffic, and in particular fewer bumbling tourists who don't know their way around York. [quote]5) Improving air quality? How when there are the same amount of busses but now cars have to drive further to it?? [/quote] [bold]NO![/bold] There will be fewer cars because [italic]lots of people coming from out of York will be able to get the P&R and won't need to drive into York[/italic]. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. [quote]Plus anyone with any common sense in pock will simply jump on the train rather then get stuck in traffic... it’s about 20mins quicker (and cheaper!)[/quote]If you live in Poppleton then that's great. But if you're coming from elsewhere? There's only one train an hour from Poppleton, so if you're driving down from Ripon, you've got to time your arrival just right or you'll have a long wait. With buses running every 10 minutes, you're not going to have a long wait. And the bus is cheaper than the train (especially if you have a free pass!).[/p][/quote]It's also worth noting that in the transport circles, York is the *Benchmark* when it comes to Park and Ride coverage.... ever since the mid 1990's when it was decided to get a dedicated fleet of buses used only on P&R duties, and York got a load of blue Scania's which were the first batch of buses in Yorkshire to have a full low floor step-free access layout. To those who think York's P&R system isn't good enough, I'd suggest they try using the Park and Ride on other cities and then compare it to York's network... we have good sized car parks where there is usually a space to park; the parking itself is free whilst the car park itself is fully secure and patrolled regularly; there is a dedicated amenity building (Designer outlet route excepted) providing an information office, toilets, and in some cases indoor waiting space; the buses themselves are dedicated only to the Park and Ride routes, with their own distinctive livery that easily sets them aside from other buses in the city; and despite York's chronic congestion at certain times of the day, the P&R bus services often accommodate for this by having more vehicles out during the afternoon peak.[/p][/quote]Oh and another thing... 2 carriage train 4m??? yes... maybe... but imagine if northern were already running the routes stopping at each stop on the way and are even willing to fund opening new or closed stations to generate more money.. oh wait they are... so take that 4m away the infrastructure is already there!!!!!! moron. Oh and most of it is electrified too so imagine how many diesel chugging p&rs that would have taken off as well as cars... You think p&r is green and amazing.. come back to me in 5 years when you realise it has had no impact at all and then think we would have actually spent this 22m for implementing a bigger scheme for a solution not an interim hope at reducing traffic.[/p][/quote]Oh and York station has just been remodelled for capacity increases... then with the new ROC that has been built and the traffic management coming into place i think you will find that is more then enough capacity. This only backs up your naivety as there are already trains going past each of these sites that would happily stop and pick up some more money bags on the way... The only cost would be the station costs... which i'm sure funds are available like i say (or as the director of northern told me)[/p][/quote]The problem is that doesn't get around the fact that any train coming from Poppleton has to cross the Down Main in order to access the Up Main on the East Coast main Line in order to gain access into York station, or that from Water End the access into the station is only on 2 tracks (which at several times of the day are already at capacity), or the fact that the line from Poppleton is not electrified. Also worthy of note is if trains (or even tram-trains, if York was to ever get a tram network that could be connected into the railway) were to access the Poppleton P&R site, they would need to go across 2 level crossings - one of which is manually operated, so for as intensive a service as the buses operate it would mean these crossings would spend more time closed than they would open (especially the one in the village), which would then cause road traffic tailbacks. Plus, bear in mind that when the Oldham Loop line in Manchester closed, Northern rail were ready to let the trains go as they didn't want to pay out to keep them on lease - it was only because TfGM provided subsidy that Northern kept those trains in order to strengthen services around the Calder Valley... so if Northern were relucant to fund two or three 30-year-old Pacer trains, how much less so would they be to electrify a line, provide a station, recast the entire timetable for that line (and other lines where the diagrams for those trains interact with diagrams on other lines) and provide the brand new rolling stock for the line.[/p][/quote]Magicman please just stop talking cr@p about things you have no idea about.... the route you refer to is the “Harrogate” line. It is to the west of york. It does not cross the ECML! Upper poppleton already has a station. Why not increase parking capacity there? I was not suggesting using the exact same location for this! I would suggest somewhere along the existing route!!!!!! (Personally I wouldn’t put a p&r car park where it is! It’s at a major junction that is tail backed) And as for crossings being down (btw manually operated crossings are faster then auto!) how would this be the case by using the EXISTING TRAINS ON THE TRACK??!!!!. It is just another stop for the train to make on its normal route! The routes are not at capacity so stop talking sh@t. Yes some areas of the route are not electrified but either way this would not matter as northern run diesels! My point is it makes allowance for future aspirations! By removing road traffic and adding more people onto trains you are in fact reducing emissions & traffic! As for northern not funding the OHL.... I’d hope not as network rail are the infrastructure owner and their business plans dictate for such a plan. Northern would however contribute to stations as it would increase their revenues each year. HOW CAN I MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER... YOU DO NOT NEED MORE TRAINS... YOU DO NOT NEED TO ELECTRIFY LINES... YOU DO NOT CAUSE LX'INGS TO BE DOWN FOR LONGER.... YOU SIMPLY USE THE EXISTING TRAINS AND LINES BUT ADD A STOP IN NEXT TO A LARGE CARPARK (TO BE BUILT!) WHICH WOULD REDUCE "ROAD" TRAFFIC AND REDUCE EMMISSIONS.... AS THE TRAIN IS ALREADY RUNNING AS PER A TIMETABLE THERE WOULD ALSO BE NO WASTED JOURNEYS AS PER THE EMPTY GREEN BUS SIMPLY CAUSING ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC THIS MORNING. If you want to discuss how simply and cheap this option is compared to ripping up roads and changing roundabouts for a service that will be obsolete in 10 years feel free. But please research what you say or at least have an insight as to what you are spouting. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 5

12:44pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tessah-York says...

To all Boroughbridge Road Residents - lets let the world know about how York residents are considered as the Tour de France cycles past. All we are asking for is ONE bus stop on Boroughbridge Road to pick up passengers - otherwise I am getting my signs and posters ready.
To all Boroughbridge Road Residents - lets let the world know about how York residents are considered as the Tour de France cycles past. All we are asking for is ONE bus stop on Boroughbridge Road to pick up passengers - otherwise I am getting my signs and posters ready. tessah-York
  • Score: 5

1:13pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tessah-York says...

Considering what my sign should say..... "Keep on cycling, York doesn't care for Residents".
Considering what my sign should say..... "Keep on cycling, York doesn't care for Residents". tessah-York
  • Score: 2

5:46pm Wed 11 Jun 14

b4b2011 says...

Basher69 wrote:
I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.
I agree about the number of stops on the new Poppleton P&R route. I remember a few years ago a plan of the route was published and there was a stop opposite the petrol station on Boroughbridge Road (where they have done work to create an extra lane - for the bus to stop without being in the way of other traffic?). Yet now I see that the first stop on this route is to be at Holgate Park, just about half way through the journey. So, if I want to use this service (and get my polluting car off the roads), I'm going to have to use said car to drive to the P&R site so the bus can take me past my house again on the journey into town! How's that for sensible?! And, before you comment about the no 5, I know I can get that; I'm just making the point about the lack of stops on this particular route, especially compared with the others in York.
[quote][p][bold]Basher69[/bold] wrote: I've no problems with the P&R scheme. I just don't understand why, if it is to have an intermediate stop on the way in, that's it's after two thirds of the journey and nearly in town. Why not put it further out at Hardacre Court so that far more people can benefit? After all, the council has, on our behalf funded 30% of the scheme. Or simply add a second stop there anyway.[/p][/quote]I agree about the number of stops on the new Poppleton P&R route. I remember a few years ago a plan of the route was published and there was a stop opposite the petrol station on Boroughbridge Road (where they have done work to create an extra lane - for the bus to stop without being in the way of other traffic?). Yet now I see that the first stop on this route is to be at Holgate Park, just about half way through the journey. So, if I want to use this service (and get my polluting car off the roads), I'm going to have to use said car to drive to the P&R site so the bus can take me past my house again on the journey into town! How's that for sensible?! And, before you comment about the no 5, I know I can get that; I'm just making the point about the lack of stops on this particular route, especially compared with the others in York. b4b2011
  • Score: 3

8:25am Thu 12 Jun 14

johnwill says...

Personally I think the Park and Ride at Poppleton is a great idea and would encourage everyone to use, I certainly hope it is successful, it will make my drive in to York so much quicker.
Personally I think the Park and Ride at Poppleton is a great idea and would encourage everyone to use, I certainly hope it is successful, it will make my drive in to York so much quicker. johnwill
  • Score: -5

8:35am Thu 12 Jun 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

johnwill wrote:
Personally I think the Park and Ride at Poppleton is a great idea and would encourage everyone to use, I certainly hope it is successful, it will make my drive in to York so much quicker.
john i have not seen a bus with more then 3 people on yet.
[quote][p][bold]johnwill[/bold] wrote: Personally I think the Park and Ride at Poppleton is a great idea and would encourage everyone to use, I certainly hope it is successful, it will make my drive in to York so much quicker.[/p][/quote]john i have not seen a bus with more then 3 people on yet. Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 5

10:04am Thu 12 Jun 14

Jalymo says...

The new Askham Bar P & R does not have a token operated exit barrier as yet and so The College will be making good use of a handy free car park!
The new Askham Bar P & R does not have a token operated exit barrier as yet and so The College will be making good use of a handy free car park! Jalymo
  • Score: 4

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