Fulford residents want a say on Germany Beck plans

York Press: Germany Beck Germany Beck

WORRIED residents are being kept in the dark about a major housing development in York and important decisions are being taken behind closed doors, according to a local ward councillor.

Keith Aspden, who represents Fulford and is the Liberal Democrat leader on the council, has claimed that his calls for more openness and information about the 655 home plan for Germany Beck have been ignored.

A Community Forum set up to give nearby residents chance to take part in decisions about the plans has not met in over a year, and Cllr Aspden said calls for the group to meet again have gone unanswered since January.

The council have responded to the claims by pointing to a "Liaison Advisory Committee" which will be set up when construction starts with an independent chairman.

He said: "Since the planning application was approved last year there has been no proper engagement with the local community and residents have been kept in the dark. I asked for a community meeting in January, but despite repeated requests the council and the developers have refused to arrange one."

And while a legal battle is going on between archaeologist Chas Jones and English Heritage, Cllr Aspden has said a key archaeological report should be considered publicly at a Planning Committee meeting.

He said: "The archaeological report is a very controversial document which should be properly analysed and debated. The local community wants the decision to be made through an open democratic process and they want the opportunity to make public representations."

While Cllr Aspden asked for the document to go before the committee his request was turned down by the Labour and Conservative committee chairman and vice chairman, and the document will instead be dealt with by a council official.

But the Conservative group leader Cllr Chris Steward has criticised the Liberal Democrats for "playing the political card on an issue obviously of great concern to the residents of Fulford", while Conservative vice chairman of the planning committee said it was the normal way of things to have specialist council officers deal with conditions like archaeological reports.

Comments (18)

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10:31am Fri 30 May 14

andy fowler says...

Decisions behind closed doors in Pyongyang aka Alexanderville NEVER
Decisions behind closed doors in Pyongyang aka Alexanderville NEVER andy fowler
  • Score: -29

10:53am Fri 30 May 14

yorkandproud says...

Treated like mushrooms. "Kept in the dark, and fed on ****
Treated like mushrooms. "Kept in the dark, and fed on **** yorkandproud
  • Score: -24

11:08am Fri 30 May 14

sharpish says...

I have read the report on the archaeological investigations and consider it to be a hopelessly flawed and opaque document.

The City archaeologist has already personally approved it despite serious objections from Fulford Parish Council, Charles Jones and local residents.

These objections were all submitted some time after the chairs and vice-chairs of the planning committees refused the call-in request and I would urge Councillor Steward to ask his colleagues to look again at this application in the light of the objections.

It is vitally important for the City as a whole that this hugely important archaeological scheme should be robust, transparent and capable of being monitored effectively. The proper way to deal with such important and controversial matters is to allow decisions to be taken in public, not behind closed doors!

The application reference is: AOD/14/00120
I have read the report on the archaeological investigations and consider it to be a hopelessly flawed and opaque document. The City archaeologist has already personally approved it despite serious objections from Fulford Parish Council, Charles Jones and local residents. These objections were all submitted some time after the chairs and vice-chairs of the planning committees refused the call-in request and I would urge Councillor Steward to ask his colleagues to look again at this application in the light of the objections. It is vitally important for the City as a whole that this hugely important archaeological scheme should be robust, transparent and capable of being monitored effectively. The proper way to deal with such important and controversial matters is to allow decisions to be taken in public, not behind closed doors! The application reference is: AOD/14/00120 sharpish
  • Score: -24

11:29am Fri 30 May 14

Archiebold the 1st says...

sharpish wrote:
I have read the report on the archaeological investigations and consider it to be a hopelessly flawed and opaque document. The City archaeologist has already personally approved it despite serious objections from Fulford Parish Council, Charles Jones and local residents. These objections were all submitted some time after the chairs and vice-chairs of the planning committees refused the call-in request and I would urge Councillor Steward to ask his colleagues to look again at this application in the light of the objections. It is vitally important for the City as a whole that this hugely important archaeological scheme should be robust, transparent and capable of being monitored effectively. The proper way to deal with such important and controversial matters is to allow decisions to be taken in public, not behind closed doors! The application reference is: AOD/14/00120
It was the heritage that rejected its conclusion wasn't it? I just don’t get why a serious archaeologist who isn’t from York would put this report together after a failed submission for a protected species? I mean if he really did believe he had 100% evidence beyond reasonable doubt why not submit that before a water vowels argument? And why did the heritage not take it seriously? It’s because such a paper was only produced when a development was going to happen demonstrating that previously no one actually cared and the report was actually only being used as an objection or blocker.

Looking from the outside (don’t live in fulford anymore) people did not care about this site previously and it was simple a flood zone. Only fulford residents seem to now care about it? This after the water vowels and flood arguments didn’t work.

If I’m not correct and everyone does care about such a site and what it holds (rather then 650 houses being built on their doorstep and the obvious impact this will have) then surly the archaeologists that are mandated to be in attendance during all stages of construction will ensure any key objects are extracted safely?

Or is it a site where the war is re-in acted each year and such houses will take this away from a local tradition?
[quote][p][bold]sharpish[/bold] wrote: I have read the report on the archaeological investigations and consider it to be a hopelessly flawed and opaque document. The City archaeologist has already personally approved it despite serious objections from Fulford Parish Council, Charles Jones and local residents. These objections were all submitted some time after the chairs and vice-chairs of the planning committees refused the call-in request and I would urge Councillor Steward to ask his colleagues to look again at this application in the light of the objections. It is vitally important for the City as a whole that this hugely important archaeological scheme should be robust, transparent and capable of being monitored effectively. The proper way to deal with such important and controversial matters is to allow decisions to be taken in public, not behind closed doors! The application reference is: AOD/14/00120[/p][/quote]It was the heritage that rejected its conclusion wasn't it? I just don’t get why a serious archaeologist who isn’t from York would put this report together after a failed submission for a protected species? I mean if he really did believe he had 100% evidence beyond reasonable doubt why not submit that before a water vowels argument? And why did the heritage not take it seriously? It’s because such a paper was only produced when a development was going to happen demonstrating that previously no one actually cared and the report was actually only being used as an objection or blocker. Looking from the outside (don’t live in fulford anymore) people did not care about this site previously and it was simple a flood zone. Only fulford residents seem to now care about it? This after the water vowels and flood arguments didn’t work. If I’m not correct and everyone does care about such a site and what it holds (rather then 650 houses being built on their doorstep and the obvious impact this will have) then surly the archaeologists that are mandated to be in attendance during all stages of construction will ensure any key objects are extracted safely? Or is it a site where the war is re-in acted each year and such houses will take this away from a local tradition? Archiebold the 1st
  • Score: 11

12:49pm Fri 30 May 14

Y.I.P. says...

Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house.
Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house. Y.I.P.
  • Score: -29

2:10pm Fri 30 May 14

tommytuckamotor says...

Think you'll find persimmon will get their way , they always do & they know people in the right places.
Think you'll find persimmon will get their way , they always do & they know people in the right places. tommytuckamotor
  • Score: 5

5:28pm Fri 30 May 14

Y.I.P. says...

Hope persimmon do get their way and get on with the flippin job,wake up people we need more housing BRITAIN is filling up sharpish.
Hope persimmon do get their way and get on with the flippin job,wake up people we need more housing BRITAIN is filling up sharpish. Y.I.P.
  • Score: 27

6:20pm Fri 30 May 14

Waspish1 says...

I hope Persimmon homes have put aside a large contingency fund to compensate the owners of these homes for the first time they are flooded out, because I have no faith in any of the ' experts' who claim this can be prevented.
I hope Persimmon homes have put aside a large contingency fund to compensate the owners of these homes for the first time they are flooded out, because I have no faith in any of the ' experts' who claim this can be prevented. Waspish1
  • Score: 6

6:43pm Fri 30 May 14

Vine Weevil says...

It is quite outrageous for the Lib Dems to pretend that they oppose this scheme when most of the progress was made while they were running the city council. Cllr Aspden obviously has a personal interest in deflecting scrutiny of his own role. The aerial photograph nicely shows the threat that flooding poses in this area and while I would like to believe that Cllr Merrett's proposed sluice will avoid the problem, the developer has yet to supply the required calculations to the Environment Agency. The question being: what happens if high levels of precipitation in the Germany Beck catchment coincide with flood conditions on the Ouse? Personally I believe the historical and archaeological reports accompanying the application are excellent documents. The failure is in the use of those documents by the developer's architects and engineers who do not seem to have read them. The removal of medieval flood defences as part of the scheme and standard house types without mitigating design features beg credibility.
It is quite outrageous for the Lib Dems to pretend that they oppose this scheme when most of the progress was made while they were running the city council. Cllr Aspden obviously has a personal interest in deflecting scrutiny of his own role. The aerial photograph nicely shows the threat that flooding poses in this area and while I would like to believe that Cllr Merrett's proposed sluice will avoid the problem, the developer has yet to supply the required calculations to the Environment Agency. The question being: what happens if high levels of precipitation in the Germany Beck catchment coincide with flood conditions on the Ouse? Personally I believe the historical and archaeological reports accompanying the application are excellent documents. The failure is in the use of those documents by the developer's architects and engineers who do not seem to have read them. The removal of medieval flood defences as part of the scheme and standard house types without mitigating design features beg credibility. Vine Weevil
  • Score: -17

6:46pm Fri 30 May 14

dementia says...

The residents of Fulford have been obstructive from day one on this development and continue to be so. Why should the developer they have damaged help in any way now that plans are passed?
Reap what you sow.
The residents of Fulford have been obstructive from day one on this development and continue to be so. Why should the developer they have damaged help in any way now that plans are passed? Reap what you sow. dementia
  • Score: 8

8:25pm Fri 30 May 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Who would want to buy a house built on that soggy looking bit of land?
Who would want to buy a house built on that soggy looking bit of land? strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -46

8:48pm Fri 30 May 14

jake777 says...

Y.I.P. wrote:
Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house.
another idiot with no brains.
[quote][p][bold]Y.I.P.[/bold] wrote: Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house.[/p][/quote]another idiot with no brains. jake777
  • Score: -130

8:49pm Fri 30 May 14

jake777 says...

Y.I.P. wrote:
Hope persimmon do get their way and get on with the flippin job,wake up people we need more housing BRITAIN is filling up sharpish.
yer lets fill it with houses and watch them flood muppet.
[quote][p][bold]Y.I.P.[/bold] wrote: Hope persimmon do get their way and get on with the flippin job,wake up people we need more housing BRITAIN is filling up sharpish.[/p][/quote]yer lets fill it with houses and watch them flood muppet. jake777
  • Score: -143

9:45pm Fri 30 May 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I see the score adjusting thing still lives. Should put it in a house on this bit of land that may dampen its sprits.
I see the score adjusting thing still lives. Should put it in a house on this bit of land that may dampen its sprits. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -20

8:33am Sat 31 May 14

trailblazer says...

If people think flooding will be a problem, maybe, but it will only be for a few days a year. When they start then finish the access junction which is not only for the new estate access but also for Fulford school. The whole area will gridlocked for at least twelve hours a day, if we think its congested now just wait for this to start. It may stop the rat run to the university in the morning rush hour down Heslington lane from the A19. But don't worry the average 5.7 passengers on the park and ride buses in the morning congestion hours may get to work 20 seconds earlier. However they will be at least an hour getting back.
If people think flooding will be a problem, maybe, but it will only be for a few days a year. When they start then finish the access junction which is not only for the new estate access but also for Fulford school. The whole area will gridlocked for at least twelve hours a day, if we think its congested now just wait for this to start. It may stop the rat run to the university in the morning rush hour down Heslington lane from the A19. But don't worry the average 5.7 passengers on the park and ride buses in the morning congestion hours may get to work 20 seconds earlier. However they will be at least an hour getting back. trailblazer
  • Score: -3

10:01am Sat 31 May 14

Martin Dawson says...

I went on Jeremy Vine's BBCR2 programme about this, some folk are just plain thick, the clues in the name 'Ful-FORD', 'Germany BECK' it floods, 2012 it was Fulford-on-Sea, A19 was blocked... Hello wake up, any one in there... If any one wants to build some where try Acaster Airfield and while you are at it put in a railway link (that would be good a commuter rail link, can't be that hard) There's a opportunity to build a 'green' town out there. its all concrete any way and no use to any one but a few farmers and the odd industrial unit. It could be a show piece and show the rest of the UK what can be done. As for Fulford, build on that? it floods... where will the builders be then? Ok saying they could prevent flooding but where does the water go then, Naburn, Cawood, Selby?
I went on Jeremy Vine's BBCR2 programme about this, some folk are just plain thick, the clues in the name 'Ful-FORD', 'Germany BECK' it floods, 2012 it was Fulford-on-Sea, A19 was blocked... Hello wake up, any one in there... If any one wants to build some where try Acaster Airfield and while you are at it put in a railway link (that would be good a commuter rail link, can't be that hard) There's a opportunity to build a 'green' town out there. its all concrete any way and no use to any one but a few farmers and the odd industrial unit. It could be a show piece and show the rest of the UK what can be done. As for Fulford, build on that? it floods... where will the builders be then? Ok saying they could prevent flooding but where does the water go then, Naburn, Cawood, Selby? Martin Dawson
  • Score: -3

10:44am Sat 31 May 14

Y.I.P. says...

jake777 wrote:
Y.I.P. wrote:
Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house.
another idiot with no brains.
Oh heck sorry jake you from abroad!!!Go and put your big boys pants on fella !!!
[quote][p][bold]jake777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Y.I.P.[/bold] wrote: Stop moaning nimbys,we have a ton of foreigners to house.[/p][/quote]another idiot with no brains.[/p][/quote]Oh heck sorry jake you from abroad!!!Go and put your big boys pants on fella !!! Y.I.P.
  • Score: -39

10:51am Sun 1 Jun 14

julia brica says...

Vine Weevil wrote:
It is quite outrageous for the Lib Dems to pretend that they oppose this scheme when most of the progress was made while they were running the city council. Cllr Aspden obviously has a personal interest in deflecting scrutiny of his own role. The aerial photograph nicely shows the threat that flooding poses in this area and while I would like to believe that Cllr Merrett's proposed sluice will avoid the problem, the developer has yet to supply the required calculations to the Environment Agency. The question being: what happens if high levels of precipitation in the Germany Beck catchment coincide with flood conditions on the Ouse? Personally I believe the historical and archaeological reports accompanying the application are excellent documents. The failure is in the use of those documents by the developer's architects and engineers who do not seem to have read them. The removal of medieval flood defences as part of the scheme and standard house types without mitigating design features beg credibility.
You don't think I should buy one then ?
[quote][p][bold]Vine Weevil[/bold] wrote: It is quite outrageous for the Lib Dems to pretend that they oppose this scheme when most of the progress was made while they were running the city council. Cllr Aspden obviously has a personal interest in deflecting scrutiny of his own role. The aerial photograph nicely shows the threat that flooding poses in this area and while I would like to believe that Cllr Merrett's proposed sluice will avoid the problem, the developer has yet to supply the required calculations to the Environment Agency. The question being: what happens if high levels of precipitation in the Germany Beck catchment coincide with flood conditions on the Ouse? Personally I believe the historical and archaeological reports accompanying the application are excellent documents. The failure is in the use of those documents by the developer's architects and engineers who do not seem to have read them. The removal of medieval flood defences as part of the scheme and standard house types without mitigating design features beg credibility.[/p][/quote]You don't think I should buy one then ? julia brica
  • Score: -52

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