529-year-old letter says Richard III 'planned York mausoleum’

King Richard III

King Richard III

First published in News
Last updated
York Press: Photograph of the Author by , Chief reporter

CAMPAIGNERS who still hope to get Richard III’s skeleton buried in York have had their hopes boosted after the discovery of a 529-year-old letter in the National Archives.

The document, unearthed by historian and Tory MP Chris Skidmore, suggests the King did plan to be buried in York, rather than Leicester, which is now set to be his last resting place.

It provides fresh ammunition to campaigners who believe the King was establishing a major new religious foundation at the Minster with a view to it becoming his mausoleum.

It shows he wanted the 100 priests at the new foundation to use their prayers to make him ‘more acceptable to God and his saints’.

Mr Skidmore says in an article for BBC History magazine that the letter, written five months before his death, suggests Richard’s ‘real intention’ in establishing the college at York may have been to follow the 15th Century trend for aristocrats to turn similar foundations into mausoleums. “The connection between Richard’s establishment of the foundation at York and the salvation of his own soul could hardly be any clearer,” he said.

The king’s bones were found under a Leicester car park in 2012, sparking a massivecontroversy over whether they should be re-buried at Leicester Cathedral or York Minster.

The Plantagenet Alliance, which involves distant relatives of the king, claimed York was a more suitable location for Richard’s remains as he had spent his childhood and much of his adult life in the North.

Leicester recently won the battle to provide his final resting place following a lengthy legal challenge by campaigners.

Three High Court judges last month ruled the campaigners could not have a public consultation on his burial place and it was time for him to be given a dignified reburial, and finally laid to rest.

Comments (32)

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10:22am Fri 20 Jun 14

CHISSY1 says...

Oh no,not another saga.
Oh no,not another saga. CHISSY1
  • Score: -27

12:09pm Fri 20 Jun 14

sonorbloke says...

Ah, so the historian, who is campaigning for RIII to be buried in York, has taken a line from a letter, almost certainly out of context, and extrapolated it to say something that the letter does not mention specifically or even imply?

The article is wrong, the letter does not 'suggest' that. It's a supposition by an academic, not evidence. The decision has been made and the campaigners need to accept it and get on with their lives.
Ah, so the historian, who is campaigning for RIII to be buried in York, has taken a line from a letter, almost certainly out of context, and extrapolated it to say something that the letter does not mention specifically or even imply? The article is wrong, the letter does not 'suggest' that. It's a supposition by an academic, not evidence. The decision has been made and the campaigners need to accept it and get on with their lives. sonorbloke
  • Score: -13

12:21pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Firedrake says...

Nor is it a "new" discovery. The problem is that Richard attempted to found similar institutions all over the place. He can't have hoped to be buried in all of them!
Nor is it a "new" discovery. The problem is that Richard attempted to found similar institutions all over the place. He can't have hoped to be buried in all of them! Firedrake
  • Score: -5

12:29pm Fri 20 Jun 14

andrew flower says...

Who gives a monkey's????
Who gives a monkey's???? andrew flower
  • Score: -9

12:36pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Digeorge says...

Question really is did he ever intend to be buried in Leicester when he was dragged there, hated the place and is to be interned in a place he hated! They couldn't give a toss when his bones were eventually dug up now it is all about tourism and money.
Question really is did he ever intend to be buried in Leicester when he was dragged there, hated the place and is to be interned in a place he hated! They couldn't give a toss when his bones were eventually dug up now it is all about tourism and money. Digeorge
  • Score: 30

12:49pm Fri 20 Jun 14

dbrs88 says...

Leicester have already built a visitor centre over the grave... although it is significantly more substantial than the original plans, which suggests to me that they were worried about losing him to York and needed a bigger exhibition to pull in the crowds..
Leicester have already built a visitor centre over the grave... although it is significantly more substantial than the original plans, which suggests to me that they were worried about losing him to York and needed a bigger exhibition to pull in the crowds.. dbrs88
  • Score: 11

1:15pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

CHISSY1 wrote:
Oh no,not another saga.
Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.
[quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: Oh no,not another saga.[/p][/quote]Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 35

1:26pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Devils_advocate says...

Let it (and him) lie!
Let it (and him) lie! Devils_advocate
  • Score: 1

2:07pm Fri 20 Jun 14

emen says...

According to The Telegraph, and so far unreported in The Press, the recent court case over where the remains should be buried have cost the tax payer over £175,000.

Personally I would rather see the tax I pay spent on something more worthwhile than this unseemly and undignified squabble about where some 529 years old bones are buried.
According to The Telegraph, and so far unreported in The Press, the recent court case over where the remains should be buried have cost the tax payer over £175,000. Personally I would rather see the tax I pay spent on something more worthwhile than this unseemly and undignified squabble about where some 529 years old bones are buried. emen
  • Score: 7

2:41pm Fri 20 Jun 14

eboricana says...

I really do not beliee a word of this nonsense! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzz! boring
I really do not beliee a word of this nonsense! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz! boring eboricana
  • Score: -16

2:43pm Fri 20 Jun 14

eboricana says...

should have said believe
should have said believe eboricana
  • Score: -14

4:17pm Fri 20 Jun 14

CHISSY1 says...

Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Oh no,not another saga.
Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.
Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.
[quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: Oh no,not another saga.[/p][/quote]Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.[/p][/quote]Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more. CHISSY1
  • Score: -21

4:48pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

CHISSY1 wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Oh no,not another saga.
Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.
Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.
Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll.
[quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: Oh no,not another saga.[/p][/quote]Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.[/p][/quote]Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.[/p][/quote]Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 20

5:08pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Caecilius says...

sonorbloke wrote:
Ah, so the historian, who is campaigning for RIII to be buried in York, has taken a line from a letter, almost certainly out of context, and extrapolated it to say something that the letter does not mention specifically or even imply?

The article is wrong, the letter does not 'suggest' that. It's a supposition by an academic, not evidence. The decision has been made and the campaigners need to accept it and get on with their lives.
Quite right. Mr Skidmore says "the connection between Richard’s establishment of the foundation at York and the salvation of his own soul could hardly be any clearer” but surely the salvation of your own, or a relative's, soul was the fundamental reason for every single donation ever made by anybody to the medieval Church. There's not a shred of evidence on which to conclude that this proves Richard intended to be buried there.
[quote][p][bold]sonorbloke[/bold] wrote: Ah, so the historian, who is campaigning for RIII to be buried in York, has taken a line from a letter, almost certainly out of context, and extrapolated it to say something that the letter does not mention specifically or even imply? The article is wrong, the letter does not 'suggest' that. It's a supposition by an academic, not evidence. The decision has been made and the campaigners need to accept it and get on with their lives.[/p][/quote]Quite right. Mr Skidmore says "the connection between Richard’s establishment of the foundation at York and the salvation of his own soul could hardly be any clearer” but surely the salvation of your own, or a relative's, soul was the fundamental reason for every single donation ever made by anybody to the medieval Church. There's not a shred of evidence on which to conclude that this proves Richard intended to be buried there. Caecilius
  • Score: 1

5:17pm Fri 20 Jun 14

CHISSY1 says...

Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Oh no,not another saga.
Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.
Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.
Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll.
You are getting worked up,and i have never used the word "saddo",sad maybe.If i was you i would go and have a lie down,getting worked up over a pile of bones wont do you any good.
[quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: Oh no,not another saga.[/p][/quote]Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.[/p][/quote]Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.[/p][/quote]Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll.[/p][/quote]You are getting worked up,and i have never used the word "saddo",sad maybe.If i was you i would go and have a lie down,getting worked up over a pile of bones wont do you any good. CHISSY1
  • Score: -22

5:39pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

CHISSY1 wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Emperor Palpatine wrote:
CHISSY1 wrote:
Oh no,not another saga.
Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.
Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.
Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll.
You are getting worked up,and i have never used the word "saddo",sad maybe.If i was you i would go and have a lie down,getting worked up over a pile of bones wont do you any good.
Nah...I have no interest in fly fishing so maybe I will log onto one of their public forums to repeatedly tell them how worthless I think their hobby is even though it's not harming me and it's none of my business......hang on though....that'll make me a sad case like you won't it.
[quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emperor Palpatine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CHISSY1[/bold] wrote: Oh no,not another saga.[/p][/quote]Another Richard III article and yet another derogatory comment from you. Every time, you can't resist it can you? If you actually have a point to make about why the Plantagenet Alliance should give up then why not make it politely? Or even better why not give up being a boring troll, say to yourself "I'm not interested but others might be so I won't spoil it for them", keep your bile to yourself for once and grow up.[/p][/quote]Oh dear,you are getting worked up.I am entitled to my opinion,and my opinion is that it is a load of rubbish. And anyone who is interested in a totally pointless,mind numbing exersize like this must have a boring life,get out more.[/p][/quote]Yes, we get your opinion every time ad nauseam. Last time you called anyone interested in medieval history a "saddo" yet you are the one commenting on every Richard III article! Who is the one who is obsessed? Who is the one getting worked up every time Richard III is mentioned? YOU!!!! Who are you to call anyone names? You don't seem to like it when it's dished back to you though do you? Seems to me that you are the "saddo" if anyone is. Why don't you spare us all and give it a rest you boring troll.[/p][/quote]You are getting worked up,and i have never used the word "saddo",sad maybe.If i was you i would go and have a lie down,getting worked up over a pile of bones wont do you any good.[/p][/quote]Nah...I have no interest in fly fishing so maybe I will log onto one of their public forums to repeatedly tell them how worthless I think their hobby is even though it's not harming me and it's none of my business......hang on though....that'll make me a sad case like you won't it. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 15

5:55pm Fri 20 Jun 14

pedalling paul says...

Why not divide his remains in two and have half each?
Why not divide his remains in two and have half each? pedalling paul
  • Score: -5

6:25pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Lamplighter says...

It was common practise in those times to pay the clergy to say prayers for you, especially after your death as it was thought that the power of prayer would ensure less time spent in purgatory.
It was common practise in those times to pay the clergy to say prayers for you, especially after your death as it was thought that the power of prayer would ensure less time spent in purgatory. Lamplighter
  • Score: 8

6:44pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Digeorge says...

Oh for goodness sake about CHISSY1 'pack it in', she's entitled to have her opinion, it is a frigging SAGA that is why it has gone to the High Court.

They need the 'evidence' to proceed further, they have it.
Oh for goodness sake about CHISSY1 'pack it in', she's entitled to have her opinion, it is a frigging SAGA that is why it has gone to the High Court. They need the 'evidence' to proceed further, they have it. Digeorge
  • Score: -14

7:15pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Emperor Palpatine says...

Digeorge wrote:
Oh for goodness sake about CHISSY1 'pack it in', she's entitled to have her opinion, it is a frigging SAGA that is why it has gone to the High Court.

They need the 'evidence' to proceed further, they have it.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course they are, but posting of derogatory comments both about the topic and about those people who take an interest in it every time an article appears is trolling. Judging by the scores most people seem to agree.

Whilst I think the bones should have gone to York I doubt this new "evidence" will change much. It's well known that Richard wanted to set up a Chantry Chapel of priests in the Minster to pray for his soul. If that wasn't enough to sway the judges previously what difference will a letter confirming it make now? Though I'm not a lawyer I can't see any appeal succeeding so maybe it is time to let him, and the matter, rest. In hindsight it may have been better to lay him to rest with his wife and so avoided all this.
[quote][p][bold]Digeorge[/bold] wrote: Oh for goodness sake about CHISSY1 'pack it in', she's entitled to have her opinion, it is a frigging SAGA that is why it has gone to the High Court. They need the 'evidence' to proceed further, they have it.[/p][/quote]Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course they are, but posting of derogatory comments both about the topic and about those people who take an interest in it every time an article appears is trolling. Judging by the scores most people seem to agree. Whilst I think the bones should have gone to York I doubt this new "evidence" will change much. It's well known that Richard wanted to set up a Chantry Chapel of priests in the Minster to pray for his soul. If that wasn't enough to sway the judges previously what difference will a letter confirming it make now? Though I'm not a lawyer I can't see any appeal succeeding so maybe it is time to let him, and the matter, rest. In hindsight it may have been better to lay him to rest with his wife and so avoided all this. Emperor Palpatine
  • Score: 13

7:56pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Digeorge says...

And maybe they will have more 'evidence' ! And so the saga continues!

Trolls, I thought she came from Selby and is quite active but trolls go to one website or another and spend all day at it!
And maybe they will have more 'evidence' ! And so the saga continues! Trolls, I thought she came from Selby and is quite active but trolls go to one website or another and spend all day at it! Digeorge
  • Score: 4

8:00pm Fri 20 Jun 14

brummiebob says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Why not divide his remains in two and have half each?
Surely Richard in thirds?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Why not divide his remains in two and have half each?[/p][/quote]Surely Richard in thirds? brummiebob
  • Score: 7

8:35pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Seadog says...

There is an enormous irony here which I'm surprised no one else has picked up on yet. We criticize Leicester for burying Richard under a car park, but our our car parks could contain any number of ancient Royals! Several Anglo-Saxon Kings of Northumbria from Edwin onwards (admittedly only his head!) were buried in the original version of the Minster wherever that was. Similarly, a number of Viking kings of Dublin/Jorvik were buried in the Anglo-Scandinavian Minster ... which may or may not have been on the same site as its Anglo-Saxon predecessor. Since neither building could possibly have occupied the exact site of the present Minster (the still-extant remains of the Roman Principia would have been in the way) it is entirely possible that these kingly burials remain hidden beneath our ancient streets ... or indeed car parks!

After all, Jarl Siward (who gets a walk on part in Shakespeare's Macbeth, no less) is said to lie under or near the water tower in Heslington.

Glasshouses and stones come to mind.
There is an enormous irony here which I'm surprised no one else has picked up on yet. We criticize Leicester for burying Richard under a car park, but our our car parks could contain any number of ancient Royals! Several Anglo-Saxon Kings of Northumbria from Edwin onwards (admittedly only his head!) were buried in the original version of the Minster wherever that was. Similarly, a number of Viking kings of Dublin/Jorvik were buried in the Anglo-Scandinavian Minster ... which may or may not have been on the same site as its Anglo-Saxon predecessor. Since neither building could possibly have occupied the exact site of the present Minster (the still-extant remains of the Roman Principia would have been in the way) it is entirely possible that these kingly burials remain hidden beneath our ancient streets ... or indeed car parks! After all, Jarl Siward (who gets a walk on part in Shakespeare's Macbeth, no less) is said to lie under or near the water tower in Heslington. Glasshouses and stones come to mind. Seadog
  • Score: 10

9:17pm Fri 20 Jun 14

Y.I.P. says...

Please please bury all and everything about Richard,we have had enough .Carry on rant over,
Please please bury all and everything about Richard,we have had enough .Carry on rant over, Y.I.P.
  • Score: -11

10:06am Sat 21 Jun 14

PlanetTea says...

I remember when this all started, I cannot believe its still going on. I understand that this was a person and therefore its important that they should rest where they intended, particularly if they were religious - on the other hand, you are all arguing none stop about a small amount of remains that can never be indefinitely proven to be Richard anyway.

Surely, in truth, both sides are simply after money? Or am I wrong?
I remember when this all started, I cannot believe its still going on. I understand that this was a person and therefore its important that they should rest where they intended, particularly if they were religious - on the other hand, you are all arguing none stop about a small amount of remains that can never be indefinitely proven to be Richard anyway. Surely, in truth, both sides are simply after money? Or am I wrong? PlanetTea
  • Score: 3

11:13am Sat 21 Jun 14

iwasright says...

Richard 111 was taken prisoner and sentenced to be a prisoner in a hole.
If the judges had been speaking about some thief scum bag they would have freed them, yet when its a king they still sentence him to stay in the enemies camp for ever, he should be freed from this sentence and sent back to York as a free man, its a total disgrace that today we free killers and thieves yet when its a KING they still punish this great man.
Richard 111 was taken prisoner and sentenced to be a prisoner in a hole. If the judges had been speaking about some thief scum bag they would have freed them, yet when its a king they still sentence him to stay in the enemies camp for ever, he should be freed from this sentence and sent back to York as a free man, its a total disgrace that today we free killers and thieves yet when its a KING they still punish this great man. iwasright
  • Score: -1

2:31pm Sat 21 Jun 14

swardelu says...

This is much more about where to bury Riii. It is about rights,
Who has your burial rights?
Is it Finders Keepers?
How do we treat Monarchs past present future?
If 100 years is the cut off point for reintering someone who has died on the battlefield, what if you are prevented from doing so by the current government,
is he just left?
This is much more about where to bury Riii. It is about rights, Who has your burial rights? Is it Finders Keepers? How do we treat Monarchs past present future? If 100 years is the cut off point for reintering someone who has died on the battlefield, what if you are prevented from doing so by the current government, is he just left? swardelu
  • Score: 4

10:30pm Sat 21 Jun 14

Blancsanglier says...

Devils_advocate wrote:
Let it (and him) lie!
The PA and the thousands who do advocate a York burial knew this. It is not new news. One of the reasons we are calling for York because anyone who has read about Richard lll will come to the conclusion it is the only place. Yes, he paid for Chantries at other places, as did most monarchs but the usual number was 20 − 25 at the very most... this was for 100. Six were completed before his death. Perhaps it was where he was planning to move his Queen, Anne to and his son as no-one knows where Edward of Middleham is buried, which is strange for a Prince of Wales. I also question why Chris Skidmore did not reveal this letter before the decision was handed down by the JR? It might have made a difference?
[quote][p][bold]Devils_advocate[/bold] wrote: Let it (and him) lie![/p][/quote]The PA and the thousands who do advocate a York burial knew this. It is not new news. One of the reasons we are calling for York because anyone who has read about Richard lll will come to the conclusion it is the only place. Yes, he paid for Chantries at other places, as did most monarchs but the usual number was 20 − 25 at the very most... this was for 100. Six were completed before his death. Perhaps it was where he was planning to move his Queen, Anne to and his son as no-one knows where Edward of Middleham is buried, which is strange for a Prince of Wales. I also question why Chris Skidmore did not reveal this letter before the decision was handed down by the JR? It might have made a difference? Blancsanglier
  • Score: 1

12:28pm Sun 22 Jun 14

anistasia says...

Why come out with this story now after the courts said not york.this conflict between the two cities went on over 2 years.was it really about where the bones should be laid to rest or hoping to make money from visitors. if anything visitors should know the story of Richard 3 and let them say after 2 years survey from them where they feel his bones be kept.
Why come out with this story now after the courts said not york.this conflict between the two cities went on over 2 years.was it really about where the bones should be laid to rest or hoping to make money from visitors. if anything visitors should know the story of Richard 3 and let them say after 2 years survey from them where they feel his bones be kept. anistasia
  • Score: 0

10:43am Thu 26 Jun 14

cazanne says...

LEICESTER MERCURY

Richard iii....Battle of the Facebook pages

By Berlioz | Posted: June 25, 2014


Back in 2013, two major Facebook pages were battling out

where Richard the iii should be buried.The 'Petition to bring Richard iii back to Yorkshire' gained

31,349 signatures and the 'Petition to keep Richard iii in Leicester' gained

34,478 signatures, a huge public response and on top of the Judicial review

outcome this May, where the High Court upheld the Ministry of Justice licence

that was granted to the University of Leicester, permitting reinterment at

Leicester Cathedral. Now you would think that would be the end of the matter. You

might think that some pro-York Ricardians and non- Ricardians who have an

interest in Richard or history, would feel deflated, bit sad maybe even a

little angry, but on the whole except the decision, reflect and be pleased that

Richard iii has been found and will get a burial in a Cathedral.But no, although the 'York petition page' is still active

nothing of any interest goes on apart from the odd derogatory post about

Leicester. But, the admins did post this

in May: "We've been insulted, ridiculed, laughed at, and still we get back up

and carry on the fight. This page will NOT be 'closed down', we will NOT run

away and hide; we may have lost an important battle yesterday, but we sure as

hell haven't lost the war!'. Now, where the admins get 'insulted, ridiculed and

laughed at' from is beyond me, after all it was on their page these quotes were

written...

Did you know that (Leicester City have
opposed the replica of a Boar on Richard III's tomb (if they allow a raised

tomb in their poxy cathedral) because apparently with it being a multi-cultural

city it would offend ....................
............ guess who!!!!! This is

the history of our country and as such should be under no scrutiny from

foreigners whether they be British citizens or not!!!!

'Hope that's right Linda. If not, I'm sure
the more intelligent immigrant residents of Leicester would find this crass

decision ridiculous and quite insulting.'

But now a new Facebook page has sprung up out of the grimy

back waters of cyberspace. 'Leicester Cabal Hang your Heads in Shame'

It's a very long

winded description on Facebook, too long winded in fact, admin is full of

verbal diarrhoea but this is a quick rundown: 'A Cabal made up of Leicester

City Council, Leicester Cathedral and Leicester University. Leicester Cabal's

wish to make money from a man who was not known in that town, the economic

boost Leicester is expecting to make from the bones of a King in a Disneyesque

farce run by a manager formerly working at Alton Towers.'

This page seems to have declared war on Leicester.

Leicester Cathedral seems to be in the firing line at the moment. With this

quote from the admins of the page 'Seems like the clergy are only interesting

in creating a tourist attraction! And they are trying to justify their

disgraceful burial plans by crowing about Micheal Ibsen building the coffin!'

Considering these people claim to be acting in the best

interests of Richard and his beliefs their comments aren't exactly Christian.

Now some of the admins of this page have copied and

pasted quotes from other Facebook pages. Comments such as 'Richard would not

have chosen to be buried in Leicester', and used it as hard core evidence that

Richard would never have wanted to be laid to rest in Leicester and I agree, I don't

think Richard would have wanted to have been buried anywhere but in the capital

city of his own country, he buried his wife in Westminster. Even Mark Ormrod professor

of History at York University has considered what is known about the

Plantagenet monarch and concluded that not enough historical evidence exists to

be able to confidently say he wanted to be buried at York Minster. So if Westminster

won't open their doors to Richard and he left no will, what do we do?

Leicester Cathedral is only 100 steps from where Richard was originally buried,

some beams in the Cathedral are the original beams taken from the Grey Friars

and it's in the same parish where he was originally buried and although I'm not

100% sure, it might even be the same parish as the Blue Boar Inn where Richard

spent his last nights before heading off to the battle of Bosworth.

There are also a few family history coincidences which

link the 'York' family to Leicester.

At the Parliament of 'Fire and ******' 1414 which was

held in Leicester, Richard iii's Grt. Grandfather, Edmund of Langley was

restored as the 1st Duke of York and his Grandfather Richard of York was made

Earl of Cambridge and this all happened in the same church where Richard iii

was laid to rest, in the 'Grey Friars.'

Twelve years later at the Parliament of Bats, 1426, Richard iii's father,

Richard of York (Richard Plantagenet) was knighted 'Duke of York' at St. Mary

De Castro in Leicester, the church of the Castle of Leicester which was where

his Grt. Grt Grandfather John Of Gaunt took his last breath and died.

Finally in 1485 Richard iii chose to leave Leicester and head off to Bosworth

to fight for his crown. Unfortunately as we all know he was killed in battle,

brought back to Leicester and was laid to rest in the same church where his

Grt. Grandfather was made '1st Duke of York'.

So where else would be more appropriate to bury Richard

iii, last of the 'Yorkest' Kings (let's not forget York is a family name, not associated

with a city), if not in his capital city, then in the heart of his own kingdom 'Leicester'.

If you want to find out more about what's going on in

Leicester, Richard iii and a bit of a friendly debate join the Facebook

group 'Richard in Leicester'.
LEICESTER MERCURY Richard iii....Battle of the Facebook pages By Berlioz | Posted: June 25, 2014 Back in 2013, two major Facebook pages were battling out where Richard the iii should be buried.The 'Petition to bring Richard iii back to Yorkshire' gained 31,349 signatures and the 'Petition to keep Richard iii in Leicester' gained 34,478 signatures, a huge public response and on top of the Judicial review outcome this May, where the High Court upheld the Ministry of Justice licence that was granted to the University of Leicester, permitting reinterment at Leicester Cathedral. Now you would think that would be the end of the matter. You might think that some pro-York Ricardians and non- Ricardians who have an interest in Richard or history, would feel deflated, bit sad maybe even a little angry, but on the whole except the decision, reflect and be pleased that Richard iii has been found and will get a burial in a Cathedral.But no, although the 'York petition page' is still active nothing of any interest goes on apart from the odd derogatory post about Leicester. But, the admins did post this in May: "We've been insulted, ridiculed, laughed at, and still we get back up and carry on the fight. This page will NOT be 'closed down', we will NOT run away and hide; we may have lost an important battle yesterday, but we sure as hell haven't lost the war!'. Now, where the admins get 'insulted, ridiculed and laughed at' from is beyond me, after all it was on their page these quotes were written... Did you know that (Leicester City have opposed the replica of a Boar on Richard III's tomb (if they allow a raised tomb in their poxy cathedral) because apparently with it being a multi-cultural city it would offend .................... ............ guess who!!!!! This is the history of our country and as such should be under no scrutiny from foreigners whether they be British citizens or not!!!! 'Hope that's right Linda. If not, I'm sure the more intelligent immigrant residents of Leicester would find this crass decision ridiculous and quite insulting.' But now a new Facebook page has sprung up out of the grimy back waters of cyberspace. 'Leicester Cabal Hang your Heads in Shame' It's a very long winded description on Facebook, too long winded in fact, admin is full of verbal diarrhoea but this is a quick rundown: 'A Cabal made up of Leicester City Council, Leicester Cathedral and Leicester University. Leicester Cabal's wish to make money from a man who was not known in that town, the economic boost Leicester is expecting to make from the bones of a King in a Disneyesque farce run by a manager formerly working at Alton Towers.' This page seems to have declared war on Leicester. Leicester Cathedral seems to be in the firing line at the moment. With this quote from the admins of the page 'Seems like the clergy are only interesting in creating a tourist attraction! And they are trying to justify their disgraceful burial plans by crowing about Micheal Ibsen building the coffin!' Considering these people claim to be acting in the best interests of Richard and his beliefs their comments aren't exactly Christian. Now some of the admins of this page have copied and pasted quotes from other Facebook pages. Comments such as 'Richard would not have chosen to be buried in Leicester', and used it as hard core evidence that Richard would never have wanted to be laid to rest in Leicester and I agree, I don't think Richard would have wanted to have been buried anywhere but in the capital city of his own country, he buried his wife in Westminster. Even Mark Ormrod professor of History at York University has considered what is known about the Plantagenet monarch and concluded that not enough historical evidence exists to be able to confidently say he wanted to be buried at York Minster. So if Westminster won't open their doors to Richard and he left no will, what do we do? Leicester Cathedral is only 100 steps from where Richard was originally buried, some beams in the Cathedral are the original beams taken from the Grey Friars and it's in the same parish where he was originally buried and although I'm not 100% sure, it might even be the same parish as the Blue Boar Inn where Richard spent his last nights before heading off to the battle of Bosworth. There are also a few family history coincidences which link the 'York' family to Leicester. At the Parliament of 'Fire and ******' 1414 which was held in Leicester, Richard iii's Grt. Grandfather, Edmund of Langley was restored as the 1st Duke of York and his Grandfather Richard of York was made Earl of Cambridge and this all happened in the same church where Richard iii was laid to rest, in the 'Grey Friars.' Twelve years later at the Parliament of Bats, 1426, Richard iii's father, Richard of York (Richard Plantagenet) was knighted 'Duke of York' at St. Mary De Castro in Leicester, the church of the Castle of Leicester which was where his Grt. Grt Grandfather John Of Gaunt took his last breath and died. Finally in 1485 Richard iii chose to leave Leicester and head off to Bosworth to fight for his crown. Unfortunately as we all know he was killed in battle, brought back to Leicester and was laid to rest in the same church where his Grt. Grandfather was made '1st Duke of York'. So where else would be more appropriate to bury Richard iii, last of the 'Yorkest' Kings (let's not forget York is a family name, not associated with a city), if not in his capital city, then in the heart of his own kingdom 'Leicester'. If you want to find out more about what's going on in Leicester, Richard iii and a bit of a friendly debate join the Facebook group 'Richard in Leicester'. cazanne
  • Score: 0

11:35am Thu 26 Jun 14

YorkCityLuke says...

I can understand people who express views on where Richard III should be buried. I can even understand people who focus on the cost of these debates to the taxpayer. What I cannot for the life of me understand, is why anyone would log on to a website, and take time out of their day to express no interest whatsoever in the story. Seriously, I can't get my head around the reasoning - it's like a contradiction in terms. People say they could care less and that it's boring, yet they actually seek out stories about Richard III to comment on. Some strange people in this city.
I can understand people who express views on where Richard III should be buried. I can even understand people who focus on the cost of these debates to the taxpayer. What I cannot for the life of me understand, is why anyone would log on to a website, and take time out of their day to express no interest whatsoever in the story. Seriously, I can't get my head around the reasoning - it's like a contradiction in terms. People say they could care less and that it's boring, yet they actually seek out stories about Richard III to comment on. Some strange people in this city. YorkCityLuke
  • Score: 3

4:43pm Thu 26 Jun 14

sonorbloke says...

Blancsanglier wrote:
Devils_advocate wrote: Let it (and him) lie!
The PA and the thousands who do advocate a York burial knew this. It is not new news. One of the reasons we are calling for York because anyone who has read about Richard lll will come to the conclusion it is the only place. Yes, he paid for Chantries at other places, as did most monarchs but the usual number was 20 − 25 at the very most... this was for 100. Six were completed before his death. Perhaps it was where he was planning to move his Queen, Anne to and his son as no-one knows where Edward of Middleham is buried, which is strange for a Prince of Wales. I also question why Chris Skidmore did not reveal this letter before the decision was handed down by the JR? It might have made a difference?
The fact you say 'perhaps' in this post underlines the speculation about a letter that does not mention or imply anywhere in it that he wishes to be buried in York.

It wouldn't have made any difference as it isn't evidence, it's adding 2+2 and getting 5.
[quote][p][bold]Blancsanglier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Devils_advocate[/bold] wrote: Let it (and him) lie![/p][/quote]The PA and the thousands who do advocate a York burial knew this. It is not new news. One of the reasons we are calling for York because anyone who has read about Richard lll will come to the conclusion it is the only place. Yes, he paid for Chantries at other places, as did most monarchs but the usual number was 20 − 25 at the very most... this was for 100. Six were completed before his death. Perhaps it was where he was planning to move his Queen, Anne to and his son as no-one knows where Edward of Middleham is buried, which is strange for a Prince of Wales. I also question why Chris Skidmore did not reveal this letter before the decision was handed down by the JR? It might have made a difference?[/p][/quote]The fact you say 'perhaps' in this post underlines the speculation about a letter that does not mention or imply anywhere in it that he wishes to be buried in York. It wouldn't have made any difference as it isn't evidence, it's adding 2+2 and getting 5. sonorbloke
  • Score: 0

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