Lendal Bridge report sparks fury

York Press: Lendal Bridge report sparks fury Lendal Bridge report sparks fury

YORK’S city leaders have been accused of manipulating a key report on the Lendal Bridge trial, after a leaked earlier draft emerged.

Ruth Stephenson, City of York Council’s major transport projects manager, was in the process of writing her report for the May 6 cabinet meeting when council leader James Alexander announced on April 8 that the controversial daytime ban on private traffic on the bridge would end.

Much of the content of Ms Stephenson’s draft report was missing from the final version, sparking angry claims by opposition councillors that the report was edited to suit the Labour cabinet’s decision.

The trial was scrapped after 48,500 fines had been issued, costing motorists more than £1.3 million. Ms Stephenson’s final report said the trial achieved many of its aims and had been a success in many ways, but said intense public opposition was considered to outweigh the benefits.

The leaked earlier draft appears to lean towards keeping the bridge, pictured, closed, but was then substantially rewritten.

Other excerpts removed from the final report include: l A warning that the council may have to pay £5 per cheque if refunding fines by cheque, potentially meaning a bill of £242,500 on top of the fines lA memo line at the foot of that same section asking: “Should this paragraph go in?”

lA paragraph considering an additional six-month trial with revised time restrictions, but a warning that this would add in a risk of the issue continuing until “close to local elections”.

Conservative opposition leader Chris Steward said: “It is clear from the draft that the officers’ recommendation was to be to keep the Lendal Bridge closed and this was then changed in the eventual report after the Labour Group decided to reopen it after they began panicking about saving their own necks in next year’s election.

“The overall thrust of the report changes radically from the importance of the changes to taking cars out of the Lendal area to a much more general approach.

“Lines like ‘what should be disclosed?’ and ‘should this paragraph go in?’ are particularly damning.

“It is also interesting what the draft says about the potential damage of repaying fines and yet the final report essentially ignores this.”

Liberal Democrat leader Keith Aspden said: “What we have got is evidence and officer reports being changed to fit the whims of Labour councillors and their fears over the next election.”

Cllr David Levene, cabinet member for transport, said: “We recognised that dealing with congestion requires bold ideas – we trialled something, and listened and responded to concerns from residents and businesses in the decision to end that trial.

“Ultimately, however, the issue is not going away, which is why we are establishing a cross-party, independently-led Congestion Commission to build the consensus that is needed.

“It is disappointing that the other parties have responded to that call to work together by dropping their initial in-principle support for this scheme in pursuit of political gain.”

He said the trial was included in the Lib Dems’ transport plans while in charge of the council and said former Conservative leader Ian Gillies had previously supported closing Lendal and Ouse Bridges.

Darren Richardson, the council’s director of city and environmental services, said: “This is a very early draft of the report which outlines a possible structure for consideration by officers, and at a time when only a small percentage of the final data was available.

“Naturally this means it won’t have the same content as the final report”.

Comments (60)

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12:47pm Sat 10 May 14

purelobo says...

is anyone out there surprised?
is anyone out there surprised? purelobo
  • Score: 13

1:08pm Sat 10 May 14

meinit says...

Well I'm shocked at this I never thought for a minute they would stoop so low
Well I'm shocked at this I never thought for a minute they would stoop so low meinit
  • Score: -19

1:13pm Sat 10 May 14

Happytoliveinyork says...

It's the gift that keeps on giving!
It's the gift that keeps on giving! Happytoliveinyork
  • Score: -5

1:19pm Sat 10 May 14

Cheeky face says...

It does look suspicious to say the least. As I have "watched" progress? on this trial (since before it's inception) I was expecting a successful outcome being claimed and a revised prohibition time of finishing earlier in the afternoon.

Can and FOI request be made to get at the original draft?
It does look suspicious to say the least. As I have "watched" progress? on this trial (since before it's inception) I was expecting a successful outcome being claimed and a revised prohibition time of finishing earlier in the afternoon. Can and FOI request be made to get at the original draft? Cheeky face
  • Score: -13

1:38pm Sat 10 May 14

ouseswimmer says...

The report is completely the opposite to everyone's experience in York. More congestion and more pollution just not in places being monitored. If they had put in place more monitoring stations then the report would have substance. As it is its completely the opposite.
The report is completely the opposite to everyone's experience in York. More congestion and more pollution just not in places being monitored. If they had put in place more monitoring stations then the report would have substance. As it is its completely the opposite. ouseswimmer
  • Score: 14

1:53pm Sat 10 May 14

Cheeky face says...

ouseswimmer, noted. Congestion and pollution was very evident in Prices Lane, and delayed buses 11 and 26 who needed the "wrong lane" to pickup/drop off. That was evident most Tuesdays in the trial period.

Incidentally a policeman told me ,in Coppergate, 3 years that the council had no authority to fine Coppergate transgressors! So refund scare may extend to those Coppergate transgressors; except those few the police "caught".; and these are probably of a higher % of local people. Extending the prohibition in Coppergate was poorly advertised; and signage still not favoured by the adjudicator.! I hope the council can answer my concerns next week; which they promised!
Two government ministers are of different opinions on these schemes! A third minister,The High Street Minister, says the govt MUST sort out their rules! So the problem is shared locally and nationally, but even so the funding is ultimately from the tax payer.
Why do so many Brits retire out of this country? Why did I move to the coast?
ouseswimmer, noted. Congestion and pollution was very evident in Prices Lane, and delayed buses 11 and 26 who needed the "wrong lane" to pickup/drop off. That was evident most Tuesdays in the trial period. Incidentally a policeman told me ,in Coppergate, 3 years that the council had no authority to fine Coppergate transgressors! So refund scare may extend to those Coppergate transgressors; except those few the police "caught".; and these are probably of a higher % of local people. Extending the prohibition in Coppergate was poorly advertised; and signage still not favoured by the adjudicator.! I hope the council can answer my concerns next week; which they promised! Two government ministers are of different opinions on these schemes! A third minister,The High Street Minister, says the govt MUST sort out their rules! So the problem is shared locally and nationally, but even so the funding is ultimately from the tax payer. Why do so many Brits retire out of this country? Why did I move to the coast? Cheeky face
  • Score: 4

1:54pm Sat 10 May 14

Dr Robert says...

Obviously the few remaining numbskulls who still support the labour council have been active above with the negative votes against common sense.
Obviously the few remaining numbskulls who still support the labour council have been active above with the negative votes against common sense. Dr Robert
  • Score: -6

2:04pm Sat 10 May 14

Badgers Drift says...

Darren Richardson, the council’s director of city and environmental services, said: “This is a very early draft of the report which outlines a possible structure for consideration by officers, and at a time when only a small percentage of the final data was available."


So, Mr Richardson, please explain what final data resulted in this omission...?.....

Other excerpts removed from the final report include: l A warning that the council may have to pay £5 per cheque if refunding fines by cheque, potentially meaning a bill of £242,500 on top of the fines lA memo line at the foot of that same section asking: “Should this paragraph go in?”


Was the data an editing instruction from comrade Merrett perhaps, who no doubt proof read the draft, and consulted with his colleague Coun Semlyen on how to 'level things up'?!!!
[quote] Darren Richardson, the council’s director of city and environmental services, said: “This is a very early draft of the report which outlines a possible structure for consideration by officers, and at a time when only a small percentage of the final data was available." [/quote] So, Mr Richardson, please explain what final data resulted in this omission...?..... [quote] Other excerpts removed from the final report include: l A warning that the council may have to pay £5 per cheque if refunding fines by cheque, potentially meaning a bill of £242,500 on top of the fines lA memo line at the foot of that same section asking: “Should this paragraph go in?” [/quote] Was the data an editing instruction from comrade Merrett perhaps, who no doubt proof read the draft, and consulted with his colleague Coun Semlyen on how to 'level things up'?!!! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -14

2:05pm Sat 10 May 14

Cheeky face says...

If this scoring system applies tonight we will not get the result we want. It seems bizarre to me that earlier valued and intelligent comments get "minused"..

Is a set of traffic lights planned for the York City FC pitch!
If this scoring system applies tonight we will not get the result we want. It seems bizarre to me that earlier valued and intelligent comments get "minused".. Is a set of traffic lights planned for the York City FC pitch! Cheeky face
  • Score: -8

2:15pm Sat 10 May 14

Dave Ruddock says...

I think sone one if not the whole government parties get their act together. Cross party investigation and then some bright spark states a (first draft of a briefing minutes. We (The general public) already know it was a debar cal. and please dont waste more public money and the blatantly obvious. (Oh i forgot its the Government Parties we are talking about ) so no change in the Infants Playground) and i apologies the the real infants.
I think sone one if not the whole government parties get their act together. Cross party investigation and then some bright spark states a (first draft of a briefing minutes. We (The general public) already know it was a debar cal. and please dont waste more public money and the blatantly obvious. (Oh i forgot its the Government Parties we are talking about ) so no change in the Infants Playground) and i apologies the the real infants. Dave Ruddock
  • Score: -59

2:29pm Sat 10 May 14

oi oi savaloy says...

what a corrupt little lot york labour are!

better get that application in down at pound land, james!!
what a corrupt little lot york labour are! better get that application in down at pound land, james!! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: -30

2:35pm Sat 10 May 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

How can they even hold their heads up in public?
How can they even hold their heads up in public? Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 45

3:09pm Sat 10 May 14

Dr Brian says...

I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene.

I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.
I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene. I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year. Dr Brian
  • Score: -19

3:22pm Sat 10 May 14

Happytoliveinyork says...

Dr Brian wrote:
I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene.

I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.
I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking.

Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene. I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.[/p][/quote]I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking. Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers. Happytoliveinyork
  • Score: -39

4:08pm Sat 10 May 14

big boy york says...

well well this shocked me when i read this, surely our beloved leader couldnt stoop so low could he, then reality hit home n surprise surprise its just what every citizen of york knew would happen
well well this shocked me when i read this, surely our beloved leader couldnt stoop so low could he, then reality hit home n surprise surprise its just what every citizen of york knew would happen big boy york
  • Score: 2652

4:38pm Sat 10 May 14

Happytoliveinyork says...

Happytoliveinyork wrote:
Dr Brian wrote:
I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene.

I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.
I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking.

Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers.
Phew - I was getting worried the anti democracy down voter had gone on a weekend break as my post was +10 for half an hour ........ What a relief - I'm now -66.

Keep up the good work......you really do deserve a holiday sometime though :-)
[quote][p][bold]Happytoliveinyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene. I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.[/p][/quote]I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking. Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers.[/p][/quote]Phew - I was getting worried the anti democracy down voter had gone on a weekend break as my post was +10 for half an hour ........ What a relief - I'm now -66. Keep up the good work......you really do deserve a holiday sometime though :-) Happytoliveinyork
  • Score: -8

4:47pm Sat 10 May 14

courier46 says...

Success ,just let it go it was a terrible, unneeded ,unwanted, waste of money it was a FAILURE!!!!!!!!!
Success ,just let it go it was a terrible, unneeded ,unwanted, waste of money it was a FAILURE!!!!!!!!! courier46
  • Score: 6

5:13pm Sat 10 May 14

Badgers Drift says...

Happytoliveinyork wrote:
Happytoliveinyork wrote:
Dr Brian wrote: I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene. I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.
I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking. Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers.
Phew - I was getting worried the anti democracy down voter had gone on a weekend break as my post was +10 for half an hour ........ What a relief - I'm now -66. Keep up the good work......you really do deserve a holiday sometime though :-)
I know what the ****hole deserves, and its not a holiday!

I'll leave it to fellow posters to guess where I'd shove his 'award' for being York's number one ****!
[quote][p][bold]Happytoliveinyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Happytoliveinyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote: I have said it before I voted for Alexander and his grubby mates, but this is one more reason why I will NEVER vote Labour again in local elections until this man is off the scene. I emailed Alexander weeks ago asking a question which he obviously does not like because despite me reminding him he has not responded he still ignores me. I will remember though when he knocks on my door begging for my vote next year.[/p][/quote]I'm in the same boat and 100% agree with you. Just a touch of humility would have gone a long way - but we are well beyond that now. The arrogance shown by York Labour is breathtaking. Can't wait for the knock on the door from one of their canvassers.[/p][/quote]Phew - I was getting worried the anti democracy down voter had gone on a weekend break as my post was +10 for half an hour ........ What a relief - I'm now -66. Keep up the good work......you really do deserve a holiday sometime though :-)[/p][/quote]I know what the ****hole deserves, and its not a holiday! I'll leave it to fellow posters to guess where I'd shove his 'award' for being York's number one ****! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -14

5:22pm Sat 10 May 14

Badgers Drift says...

Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created.

Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!!
Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created. Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -16

5:50pm Sat 10 May 14

yorkshirelad says...

Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr
or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game? yorkshirelad
  • Score: 90

5:53pm Sat 10 May 14

AnotherPointofView says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created.

Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!!
Yes, I'm sure there would be plenty of us who would be prepared to chip in for the fare to send them!
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created. Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!![/p][/quote]Yes, I'm sure there would be plenty of us who would be prepared to chip in for the fare to send them! AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 3478

6:06pm Sat 10 May 14

AnotherPointofView says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr

or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Pawns? That's fine by me, afterall it was Alexander and co. who started this mess. Just about everything they have done with regards to transport in York has been a failure.

With particular regard to Lendal Bridge, you just need to take a look at a map of York's City centre to see that by chopping out part of a circular inner ring road it was always doomed to failure. Thankfully it has failed ... along with this discredited administration. Yes, roll on the elections, they can't come soon enough!
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?[/p][/quote]Pawns? That's fine by me, afterall it was Alexander and co. who started this mess. Just about everything they have done with regards to transport in York has been a failure. With particular regard to Lendal Bridge, you just need to take a look at a map of York's City centre to see that by chopping out part of a circular inner ring road it was always doomed to failure. Thankfully it has failed ... along with this discredited administration. Yes, roll on the elections, they can't come soon enough! AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 3334

6:52pm Sat 10 May 14

piaggio1 says...

Somehow I do prefer my base instinct. ..its deff not as cloudy as this bunch of chancers.the sooner this lot just **** off back down south .or to their little bolthole.s ..clementhorpe??? Its bloody south bank.and the once upon a time locals pub. .ooops. thats another story.....
Somehow I do prefer my base instinct. ..its deff not as cloudy as this bunch of chancers.the sooner this lot just **** off back down south .or to their little bolthole.s ..clementhorpe??? Its bloody south bank.and the once upon a time locals pub. .ooops. thats another story..... piaggio1
  • Score: 8398

7:10pm Sat 10 May 14

Cheeky face says...

Some of the employees are good. What a shame this has happened; but not a surprise at all.

The next thing is the free shoppers issue. Will that be good? I t is getting near that time. Monitoring has been promised and we await those three hour slots with concern..

Dr Brian, My e-mail to Alexander was Feb 2014. Then copied and chased via Kerstan England. Still zilch.

.But my earlier questions to the transport people go back to August, when I warned them of the issues the adjudicator crucified them on!
Some of the employees are good. What a shame this has happened; but not a surprise at all. The next thing is the free shoppers issue. Will that be good? I t is getting near that time. Monitoring has been promised and we await those three hour slots with concern.. Dr Brian, My e-mail to Alexander was Feb 2014. Then copied and chased via Kerstan England. Still zilch. .But my earlier questions to the transport people go back to August, when I warned them of the issues the adjudicator crucified them on! Cheeky face
  • Score: 8977

8:12pm Sat 10 May 14

pedalling paul says...

My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate
d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion.

In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced.

Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols.

Until then I shall reserve judgement.
My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion. In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced. Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols. Until then I shall reserve judgement. pedalling paul
  • Score: -9265

9:05pm Sat 10 May 14

Cheeky face says...

Pedalling Paul,

The principle when I was a civil servant was within "devolved responsibility" protocol.

This report, I would think, would be ok to be drafted by Ruth for ratification by her reporting officer. Whose got the final say I do not know, but this looks like they struggled to agree. The leader and chief exec jointly should have been keeping their eyes on such an important report. All councilors and senior officers of the council should know such procedures, and we must assume the oppositions comments in the press reflect this.
Pedalling Paul, The principle when I was a civil servant was within "devolved responsibility" protocol. This report, I would think, would be ok to be drafted by Ruth for ratification by her reporting officer. Whose got the final say I do not know, but this looks like they struggled to agree. The leader and chief exec jointly should have been keeping their eyes on such an important report. All councilors and senior officers of the council should know such procedures, and we must assume the oppositions comments in the press reflect this. Cheeky face
  • Score: 6

9:30pm Sat 10 May 14

courier46 says...

AnotherPointofView wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote:
Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created.

Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!!
Yes, I'm sure there would be plenty of us who would be prepared to chip in for the fare to send them!
I`m behind the times that`s great news,one at a time, one at a time.
[quote][p][bold]AnotherPointofView[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: Is there any wonder Darren Richardson is leaving York to go to the Orkney Islands? Getting as far away as possible from the mess this council has created. Why can't he take a few more of those behind all the big ideas ( 'disruptive innovation' ?) that has caused so much chaos to York and it's citizens?!!![/p][/quote]Yes, I'm sure there would be plenty of us who would be prepared to chip in for the fare to send them![/p][/quote]I`m behind the times that`s great news,one at a time, one at a time. courier46
  • Score: -17

9:43pm Sat 10 May 14

pedalling paul says...

From CoYC's Consitution at

http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/documents/s
86093/part5version41
dated271113.pdf

Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and
the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers
and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the
Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that
they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be
supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member.
Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try
to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting
their reports.

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge than most of us, can confirm whether or not this procedure was properly followed........
From CoYC's Consitution at http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/documents/s 86093/part5version41 dated271113.pdf Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member. Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting their reports. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge than most of us, can confirm whether or not this procedure was properly followed........ pedalling paul
  • Score: -12298

10:53pm Sat 10 May 14

York1900 says...

Ruth Stephenson, City of York Council’s major transport projects manager, was in the process of writing her report for the May 6 cabinet meeting

The leaked earlier draft appears to lean towards keeping the bridge closed, but was then substantially rewritten.

28 March 2014 Stephen Knapp the PCN Adjudicator found against YCC

Then council leader James Alexander announced on April 8 that the controversial daytime ban on private traffic on the bridge would end in the light of PCN Adjudicators decision

So I would expect any final report to be substantially rewritten as the facts have changed Liberal Democrat and Conservative are just trying to point score

I for one would not expect the council to keep pushing an enforcement that a PCN Adjudicator is going to find against YCC

Liberal Democrat should just shut up as some of the mess they coursed when they were in power was no better Clifton Green FTR Hungate
Ruth Stephenson, City of York Council’s major transport projects manager, was in the process of writing her report for the May 6 cabinet meeting The leaked earlier draft appears to lean towards keeping the bridge closed, but was then substantially rewritten. 28 March 2014 Stephen Knapp the PCN Adjudicator found against YCC Then council leader James Alexander announced on April 8 that the controversial daytime ban on private traffic on the bridge would end in the light of PCN Adjudicators decision So I would expect any final report to be substantially rewritten as the facts have changed Liberal Democrat and Conservative are just trying to point score I for one would not expect the council to keep pushing an enforcement that a PCN Adjudicator is going to find against YCC Liberal Democrat should just shut up as some of the mess they coursed when they were in power was no better Clifton Green FTR Hungate York1900
  • Score: -4

11:56pm Sat 10 May 14

Benjamin the Ass says...

Do as I say not as I do.
Do as I say not as I do. Benjamin the Ass
  • Score: 8

12:15am Sun 11 May 14

Benjamin the Ass says...

If York were to benefit from the closure of Lendal bridge it would be only if an alternative crossing of the river was in place. It wouldn't have to be in central York as a bridge further out would have a knock on effect of reducing traffic on bridges closer to the centre of York if it could offer quicker travelling times. The outer ring road must be duelled BEFORE any road closures in central York can be contemplated.
If York were to benefit from the closure of Lendal bridge it would be only if an alternative crossing of the river was in place. It wouldn't have to be in central York as a bridge further out would have a knock on effect of reducing traffic on bridges closer to the centre of York if it could offer quicker travelling times. The outer ring road must be duelled BEFORE any road closures in central York can be contemplated. Benjamin the Ass
  • Score: 9856

12:23am Sun 11 May 14

ken bell says...

Benjamin the **** wrote:
Do as I say not as I do.
Nice to see Merritt got his head down , three monkeys you choose lots of choice they won't get my vote again .
[quote][p][bold]Benjamin the ****[/bold] wrote: Do as I say not as I do.[/p][/quote]Nice to see Merritt got his head down , three monkeys you choose lots of choice they won't get my vote again . ken bell
  • Score: 9494

1:07am Sun 11 May 14

RingoStarr says...

pedalling paul wrote:
My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate

d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion.

In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced.

Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols.

Until then I shall reserve judgement.
The fact that you get so many PLUS votes tells people EVERYTHING they need to know about York Cuncil. Now, is that a compliment or not?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion. In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced. Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols. Until then I shall reserve judgement.[/p][/quote]The fact that you get so many PLUS votes tells people EVERYTHING they need to know about York Cuncil. Now, is that a compliment or not? RingoStarr
  • Score: 11790

7:56am Sun 11 May 14

eeoodares says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr

or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Pedalling Paul, I never thought of you as a Yorkshirelad. Glad you are getting the time to play on the computer, you will have much more time come the elections.
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?[/p][/quote]Pedalling Paul, I never thought of you as a Yorkshirelad. Glad you are getting the time to play on the computer, you will have much more time come the elections. eeoodares
  • Score: -68

7:58am Sun 11 May 14

eeoodares says...

pedalling paul wrote:
My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate

d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion.

In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced.

Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols.

Until then I shall reserve judgement.
Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion. In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced. Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols. Until then I shall reserve judgement.[/p][/quote]Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor? eeoodares
  • Score: -58

8:00am Sun 11 May 14

eeoodares says...

pedalling paul wrote:
My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate

d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion.

In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced.

Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols.

Until then I shall reserve judgement.
Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion. In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced. Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols. Until then I shall reserve judgement.[/p][/quote]Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor? eeoodares
  • Score: -59

8:00am Sun 11 May 14

dudbertman says...

Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!??
Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs
Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!?? Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs dudbertman
  • Score: -64

8:05am Sun 11 May 14

eeoodares says...

pedalling paul wrote:
From CoYC's Consitution at

http://democracy.yor

k.gov.uk/documents/s

86093/part5version41

dated271113.pdf

Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and
the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers
and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the
Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that
they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be
supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member.
Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try
to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting
their reports.

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge than most of us, can confirm whether or not this procedure was properly followed........
hahaha, just responded to PP's last post saying 'Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor?' then I scroll down and there is the councillor's reasoning.
I simply can not wait for this lot to come knocking, they will get the b*ll*cking of their pointless lives!
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: From CoYC's Consitution at http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/documents/s 86093/part5version41 dated271113.pdf Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member. Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting their reports. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge than most of us, can confirm whether or not this procedure was properly followed........[/p][/quote]hahaha, just responded to PP's last post saying 'Why not tell us how you would write it/make it up, councillor?' then I scroll down and there is the councillor's reasoning. I simply can not wait for this lot to come knocking, they will get the b*ll*cking of their pointless lives! eeoodares
  • Score: -82

9:05am Sun 11 May 14

pedalling paul says...

dudbertman wrote:
Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!??
Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs
The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened.

My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand.

This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution.
We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position.

Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and
the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers
and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the
Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that
they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be
supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member.
Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try
to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting
their reports.
[quote][p][bold]dudbertman[/bold] wrote: Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!?? Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs[/p][/quote]The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened. My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand. This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution. We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position. Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member. Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting their reports. pedalling paul
  • Score: -5373

9:35am Sun 11 May 14

Happytoliveinyork says...

pedalling paul wrote:
dudbertman wrote:
Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!??
Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs
The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened.

My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand.

This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution.
We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position.

Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and
the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers
and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the
Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that
they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be
supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member.
Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try
to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting
their reports.
If only it was £1.3K PP - it's 100 x this amount. Most York residents have no problem spending money in additional cycling provision - but this over budget vanity project so lauded by York Labour is a financial obscenity.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dudbertman[/bold] wrote: Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!?? Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs[/p][/quote]The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened. My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand. This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution. We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position. Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member. Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting their reports.[/p][/quote]If only it was £1.3K PP - it's 100 x this amount. Most York residents have no problem spending money in additional cycling provision - but this over budget vanity project so lauded by York Labour is a financial obscenity. Happytoliveinyork
  • Score: -43

9:54am Sun 11 May 14

Happytoliveinyork says...

Happytoliveinyork wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
dudbertman wrote:
Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!??
Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs
The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened.

My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand.

This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution.
We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position.

Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and
the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers
and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the
Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that
they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be
supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member.
Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try
to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting
their reports.
If only it was £1.3K PP - it's 100 x this amount. Most York residents have no problem spending money in additional cycling provision - but this over budget vanity project so lauded by York Labour is a financial obscenity.
Forgive me, it's still early - what I meant to say is that it's 1,000 x this amount !
[quote][p][bold]Happytoliveinyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dudbertman[/bold] wrote: Why won't Alexander and his cronies just admit how wrong the Lendal farce was. It was the same farce at Water Lane with the cycle lane. I witnessed a man walking his dog on the cycle track between Clifton Moor and New Earswick. Have yet to see a cycle using it !! £1,300,000 !!?? Make sure you don't let them loose for another four years, and be wary of the Libs[/p][/quote]The £1.3K cycle path is still awaiting completion of a bridge span over the York-Scarborough railway line later this year, after which it can safely be opened. My personal experience of Water End is that very often during the peak, the LH filter lane is wholly or partly empty because queuing vehicles block entry to it further back. Off peak it becomes very hazardous for cyclists who are returned to on-road in the midst of a traffic maelstrom, as drivers dash to try and beat the red light at the A19 junction. Mark my words, someone is going to get killed or seriously injured there. The Officers recommendation to leave the installation as was on safety grounds was ridden over roughshod by JA. So it's very clear that that particular Officers Report was not sanitised beforehand. This may also prove to be the case with the Lendal Bridge Report. Reproduced again below is the relevant part of the Council's Constitution. We could do with a joint statement by the Chief Executive and Leader on this matter, to clarify the position. Officer advice and preparation of reports: – The provision of advice and the preparation of reports are central to the roles of many senior officers and they are under a duty to give their best advice in the interests of the Council as a whole. When carrying out these duties it is essential that they feel able to give full and frank advice even where this may not be supportive of a particular policy or decision promoted by a Member. Members must not seek to unduly influence the content of any report or try to persuade an officer to change their professional advice when drafting their reports.[/p][/quote]If only it was £1.3K PP - it's 100 x this amount. Most York residents have no problem spending money in additional cycling provision - but this over budget vanity project so lauded by York Labour is a financial obscenity.[/p][/quote]Forgive me, it's still early - what I meant to say is that it's 1,000 x this amount ! Happytoliveinyork
  • Score: -42

12:09pm Sun 11 May 14

RingoStarr says...

RingoStarr wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate


d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion.

In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced.

Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols.

Until then I shall reserve judgement.
The fact that you get so many PLUS votes tells people EVERYTHING they need to know about York Cuncil. Now, is that a compliment or not?
Ha! You fell for that one!
[quote][p][bold]RingoStarr[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: My past experience of business practise (albeit not local Government-orientate d) is that a Report may be drafted and redrafted several times before reaching completion. In the case of this Report, the key question is whether the intital draft(s) were managed wholly at Officer level, or whether and if so when some degree of Scrutiny by elected Councillors was introduced. Perhaps the Chief Executive might be able to advise us of the customary protocols. Until then I shall reserve judgement.[/p][/quote]The fact that you get so many PLUS votes tells people EVERYTHING they need to know about York Cuncil. Now, is that a compliment or not?[/p][/quote]Ha! You fell for that one! RingoStarr
  • Score: -37

12:47pm Sun 11 May 14

Cheeky face says...

York 1900. Interesting comments. Stephen Knapp visited and surveyed Lendal Bridge and Coppergate in mid Feb 2014; the council did not furnish requested INFO AS THEY PROMISED to him.
(Coincident with the period of the adjudicator's visit James Alexander responded to my complaints and promised responses to my letter of 10.12.2013. My still unanswered letter and subsequent chase ups including my contacting Kersten England will be looked at by Ruth Stephenson next week.)

The failure of the council to provide the adjudicator the info they were to send him appears to be, in the main, the delay in his decision being as late as March 2014. The council reps that were with him in mid Feb 2014 would have known what the likely decision points would be on that day. I noticed the council's stance wavering from mid Feb onwards.

I agree that Ruth's report needed updating, and we can comment but will have leave it others to sort out.
The important thing now is to move on as soon as the dust settles, and look at where we need to be and how to get there within the budgets/constraints. The possibility of refunds re Lendal Br/Coppergate may be solved when the government review the rules/legislation. Camden were concerned they may have to refund over £3m!
York 1900. Interesting comments. Stephen Knapp visited and surveyed Lendal Bridge and Coppergate in mid Feb 2014; the council did not furnish requested INFO AS THEY PROMISED to him. (Coincident with the period of the adjudicator's visit James Alexander responded to my complaints and promised responses to my letter of 10.12.2013. My still unanswered letter and subsequent chase ups including my contacting Kersten England will be looked at by Ruth Stephenson next week.) The failure of the council to provide the adjudicator the info they were to send him appears to be, in the main, the delay in his decision being as late as March 2014. The council reps that were with him in mid Feb 2014 would have known what the likely decision points would be on that day. I noticed the council's stance wavering from mid Feb onwards. I agree that Ruth's report needed updating, and we can comment but will have leave it others to sort out. The important thing now is to move on as soon as the dust settles, and look at where we need to be and how to get there within the budgets/constraints. The possibility of refunds re Lendal Br/Coppergate may be solved when the government review the rules/legislation. Camden were concerned they may have to refund over £3m! Cheeky face
  • Score: -59

3:35pm Sun 11 May 14

piaggio1 says...

-8393.....wow.mint.
Me best ever...
-8393.....wow.mint. Me best ever... piaggio1
  • Score: -57

8:26pm Sun 11 May 14

Pinza-C55 says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr

or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Yes. What solution do you suggest?
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?[/p][/quote]Yes. What solution do you suggest? Pinza-C55
  • Score: -53

8:33pm Sun 11 May 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Manipulating the report. Never expected that!!!
Manipulating the report. Never expected that!!! strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -49

9:31pm Sun 11 May 14

Silver says...

Pinza-C55 wrote:
yorkshirelad wrote:
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr


or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Yes. What solution do you suggest?
Being honest politicians doing the smart moves, such as not trying to sell off a car park for a ridiculously low price (Which it should have earnt simply by existing by now) Consider that a transport policy is to make things smoother so perhaps tinkering with the timing of the traffic lights to reduce congestion. Perhaps invest in a better traffic light management system. Promote alternative transport options by making them a viable option. Place pressure on First to modernise their buses if they don't place routes open to tender from other public transport companies to allow free enterprise and remove First's stranglehold on York.
Consider that a bridge closure if required then consider closing Ouse bridge to all but public transport. Insist that a fining offence is equal to all so if anything but a bus goes over it, they get fined. This should be that if a CYC vehicle crosses it the department is fined for it. The question wasn't for me to answer but these would be viable ideas to me to actually get the job done in a sensible manner. Not be a lying deceitful bunch of idiots and make your own voters disappointed would be another
[quote][p][bold]Pinza-C55[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?[/p][/quote]Yes. What solution do you suggest?[/p][/quote]Being honest politicians doing the smart moves, such as not trying to sell off a car park for a ridiculously low price (Which it should have earnt simply by existing by now) Consider that a transport policy is to make things smoother so perhaps tinkering with the timing of the traffic lights to reduce congestion. Perhaps invest in a better traffic light management system. Promote alternative transport options by making them a viable option. Place pressure on First to modernise their buses if they don't place routes open to tender from other public transport companies to allow free enterprise and remove First's stranglehold on York. Consider that a bridge closure if required then consider closing Ouse bridge to all but public transport. Insist that a fining offence is equal to all so if anything but a bus goes over it, they get fined. This should be that if a CYC vehicle crosses it the department is fined for it. The question wasn't for me to answer but these would be viable ideas to me to actually get the job done in a sensible manner. Not be a lying deceitful bunch of idiots and make your own voters disappointed would be another Silver
  • Score: -35

11:53pm Sun 11 May 14

Pinza-C55 says...

Silver wrote:
Pinza-C55 wrote:
yorkshirelad wrote:
Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr



or...stop the presses..!

Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport..

The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?
Yes. What solution do you suggest?
Being honest politicians doing the smart moves, such as not trying to sell off a car park for a ridiculously low price (Which it should have earnt simply by existing by now) Consider that a transport policy is to make things smoother so perhaps tinkering with the timing of the traffic lights to reduce congestion. Perhaps invest in a better traffic light management system. Promote alternative transport options by making them a viable option. Place pressure on First to modernise their buses if they don't place routes open to tender from other public transport companies to allow free enterprise and remove First's stranglehold on York.
Consider that a bridge closure if required then consider closing Ouse bridge to all but public transport. Insist that a fining offence is equal to all so if anything but a bus goes over it, they get fined. This should be that if a CYC vehicle crosses it the department is fined for it. The question wasn't for me to answer but these would be viable ideas to me to actually get the job done in a sensible manner. Not be a lying deceitful bunch of idiots and make your own voters disappointed would be another
"Being honest politicians doing the smart moves".
You lost me with that first statement. I gave up believing in honest politicians when I gave up believing in Santa Claus.
[quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pinza-C55[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: Drip drip drip.... The Press and the opposition politicos keeping the story going every few days till election day. York's future is being sacrificed to political games. Modifying a draft report...shock..horr or...stop the presses..! Every politician knows that decent long-term transport decisions are never going to be popular initially...like taxes or reducing public services. So in the year or so before an election, all ethics go out the window as wolf-whistle politics comes into play - appealing to our base instincts. In some areas it will be scapegoating minorities. Thankfully we haven't sunk that low yet here in York, but the next lowest is scuppering our long term future by playing politics with transport.. The people responding to this...can you not see that you are being used as pawns in a political game?[/p][/quote]Yes. What solution do you suggest?[/p][/quote]Being honest politicians doing the smart moves, such as not trying to sell off a car park for a ridiculously low price (Which it should have earnt simply by existing by now) Consider that a transport policy is to make things smoother so perhaps tinkering with the timing of the traffic lights to reduce congestion. Perhaps invest in a better traffic light management system. Promote alternative transport options by making them a viable option. Place pressure on First to modernise their buses if they don't place routes open to tender from other public transport companies to allow free enterprise and remove First's stranglehold on York. Consider that a bridge closure if required then consider closing Ouse bridge to all but public transport. Insist that a fining offence is equal to all so if anything but a bus goes over it, they get fined. This should be that if a CYC vehicle crosses it the department is fined for it. The question wasn't for me to answer but these would be viable ideas to me to actually get the job done in a sensible manner. Not be a lying deceitful bunch of idiots and make your own voters disappointed would be another[/p][/quote]"Being honest politicians doing the smart moves". You lost me with that first statement. I gave up believing in honest politicians when I gave up believing in Santa Claus. Pinza-C55
  • Score: -33

9:26am Mon 12 May 14

meme says...

This is not news..............Th
ey have manipulated every report and consultation they have prepared to suit their own agenda. The only difference here is that is provable!
They need to go at local elections and be replaced with some decent honest politicians who look to the good of York's populace first and themselves last
This is not news..............Th ey have manipulated every report and consultation they have prepared to suit their own agenda. The only difference here is that is provable! They need to go at local elections and be replaced with some decent honest politicians [May be difficult] who look to the good of York's populace first and themselves last meme
  • Score: -37

11:55am Mon 12 May 14

Cheeky face says...

Silver,

Quite agree.

Most of the council vans going over Lendal bridge was wrong. I understand the drivers concerned got ticked off! Is there a difference?
Silver, Quite agree. Most of the council vans going over Lendal bridge was wrong. I understand the drivers concerned got ticked off! Is there a difference? Cheeky face
  • Score: -59

3:09pm Mon 12 May 14

Badgers Drift says...

meme wrote:
This is not news..............Th ey have manipulated every report and consultation they have prepared to suit their own agenda. The only difference here is that is provable! They need to go at local elections and be replaced with some decent honest politicians who look to the good of York's populace first and themselves last
It's not just the councillors, there are officers who are as much, if not more to blame.

Remember, officers advise, and councillors decide - the (mis)information that officers provide is often a problem, and councillors are treated as useful idiots by the Common Purpose graduates subverting democracy from within!
[quote][p][bold]meme[/bold] wrote: This is not news..............Th ey have manipulated every report and consultation they have prepared to suit their own agenda. The only difference here is that is provable! They need to go at local elections and be replaced with some decent honest politicians [May be difficult] who look to the good of York's populace first and themselves last[/p][/quote]It's not just the councillors, there are officers who are as much, if not more to blame. Remember, officers advise, and councillors decide - the (mis)information that officers provide is often a problem, and councillors are treated as useful idiots by the Common Purpose graduates subverting democracy from within! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -63

3:58pm Mon 12 May 14

bolero says...

Here we go yet again with someone rigging the votes of contributors. The Press are not interested because if you read the `site terms` this sort of interference is in direct conflict with the conditions of usage and particularly clause 5 of those terms. The Press must be aware and who the culprit is but refuse to take any action towards safeguarding their own integrity and credibility.
Here we go yet again with someone rigging the votes of contributors. The Press are not interested because if you read the `site terms` this sort of interference is in direct conflict with the conditions of usage and particularly clause 5 of those terms. The Press must be aware and who the culprit is but refuse to take any action towards safeguarding their own integrity and credibility. bolero
  • Score: -90

4:16pm Mon 12 May 14

andy fowler says...

oi oi savaloy wrote:
what a corrupt little lot york labour are!

better get that application in down at pound land, james!!
Alexander is corrupt, dictatorial, incompetent and a total disaster to a city that once had the likes of Hills and Galloway. My he makes those two look like saints!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: what a corrupt little lot york labour are! better get that application in down at pound land, james!![/p][/quote]Alexander is corrupt, dictatorial, incompetent and a total disaster to a city that once had the likes of Hills and Galloway. My he makes those two look like saints!!!!!!!! andy fowler
  • Score: -74

5:28pm Mon 12 May 14

Cheeky face says...

Equivocacy is part of their contracts! I still have not absolved them from deliberately vague and badly positioned signage re the Lendal Br or Coppergate issues. If that PCN money has to be refunded they will not have to find it from that obscene salaries.
Equivocacy is part of their contracts! I still have not absolved them from deliberately vague and badly positioned signage re the Lendal Br or Coppergate issues. If that PCN money has to be refunded they will not have to find it from that obscene salaries. Cheeky face
  • Score: -87

8:18pm Mon 12 May 14

mike.......durkin says...

**** on york is not is bad is london.its just cash caw .
keep all roads open we pay car tax so wot.if part of the roads shut then it will
be bizyer els where its better naw its open..good
**** on york is not is bad is london.its just cash caw . keep all roads open we pay car tax so wot.if part of the roads shut then it will be bizyer els where its better naw its open..good mike.......durkin
  • Score: -19

8:44pm Mon 12 May 14

Silver says...

Cheeky face wrote:
Silver,

Quite agree.

Most of the council vans going over Lendal bridge was wrong. I understand the drivers concerned got ticked off! Is there a difference?
Well in fairness the bridge being open to say emergency vehicles we all expected but it did create a seperation of drivers into a them and us which didn't help
[quote][p][bold]Cheeky face[/bold] wrote: Silver, Quite agree. Most of the council vans going over Lendal bridge was wrong. I understand the drivers concerned got ticked off! Is there a difference?[/p][/quote]Well in fairness the bridge being open to say emergency vehicles we all expected but it did create a seperation of drivers into a them and us which didn't help Silver
  • Score: 0

9:38pm Mon 12 May 14

yorkshirelad says...

Pinza C55 asked what solution I'd suggest....

So, since you ask....

My solution is that the politicians (and I suspect many are on here masquarading as enraged ordinary citizens) call a truce on transport. It's not really a political issue and to be honest there's a reasonable consensus on the required solutions.

Then we need a cross-party agreement in York about what's needed long term to maintain a vibrant healthy prosperous city for decades ahead. Let's be clear.... this has to have much more vision than either a bone-headed ranting 'beleagured' motorist type OR a scheming politician stoking up ire to get a few more reactionary votes at an election.

In general, no-pain, no-gain on transport but we all need to get around and the solution lies more in the carrot than the stick. Too many fines are being given out for accidental rather than deliberate transgression.

Then simply be honest. Endless congestion will choke our city... but give us decent alternatives. A first class public transport system (much better than we have), a safe quality cycling network, quality pavements to encourage walking...but also realize that there genuinely are people who need to use cars, business that rely on mobility etc. You don't have to be Einstein to realise though, that if buses and essential car/van users are able to get around then there has to be some restriction or rationing of private car use.

Personally, I'd encourage, educate, discuss first. Then I'd go down the route of congestion charging with exemptions, then bollards/transponder
s...and last last last of all ...fining unsuspecting people trying to navigate a sea of signs.

It can be done, but we have to be honest and realistic...the political war on this must end.
Pinza C55 asked what solution I'd suggest.... So, since you ask.... My solution is that the politicians (and I suspect many are on here masquarading as enraged ordinary citizens) call a truce on transport. It's not really a political issue and to be honest there's a reasonable consensus on the required solutions. Then we need a cross-party agreement in York about what's needed long term to maintain a vibrant healthy prosperous city for decades ahead. Let's be clear.... this has to have much more vision than either a bone-headed ranting 'beleagured' motorist type OR a scheming politician stoking up ire to get a few more reactionary votes at an election. In general, no-pain, no-gain on transport but we all need to get around and the solution lies more in the carrot than the stick. Too many fines are being given out for accidental rather than deliberate transgression. Then simply be honest. Endless congestion will choke our city... but give us decent alternatives. A first class public transport system (much better than we have), a safe quality cycling network, quality pavements to encourage walking...but also realize that there genuinely are people who need to use cars, business that rely on mobility etc. You don't have to be Einstein to realise though, that if buses and essential car/van users are able to get around then there has to be some restriction or rationing of private car use. Personally, I'd encourage, educate, discuss first. Then I'd go down the route of congestion charging with exemptions, then bollards/transponder s...and last last last of all ...fining unsuspecting people trying to navigate a sea of signs. It can be done, but we have to be honest and realistic...the political war on this must end. yorkshirelad
  • Score: 0

5:04am Tue 13 May 14

Magicman! says...

long and short of this is that Labour have once again gone against the recommendations of officials. Now eher oh where have they done that before... Water End perhaps, where accident prevention officers, the police, firebridage, ambulance service, and every other roads-based organisation recommended against reinstating the left-turn filter lane, but Labour went ahead and did it anyway despite claiming to be making York "a better place to cycle"...

Monkeys could do a better job of governing this city.
long and short of this is that Labour have once again gone against the recommendations of officials. Now eher oh where have they done that before... Water End perhaps, where accident prevention officers, the police, firebridage, ambulance service, and every other roads-based organisation recommended against reinstating the left-turn filter lane, but Labour went ahead and did it anyway despite claiming to be making York "a better place to cycle"... Monkeys could do a better job of governing this city. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

9:07am Tue 13 May 14

meme says...

Traffic would flow better if lights were monitored and changed when certain numbers of cars were queuing etc Technology could easily do that today rather than have fixed times. The new lights at the proposed park and ride at Grimston Bar are a nightmare already and have caused congestion not eased it and the P and R is not even open yet!
Cycling can be used as a viable transport means BUT road surfaces are terrible as I do cycle and you virtually need a mountain bike to get around.
I have not as lots of people put it experienced these terrible drivers all go on about but I do see v bad cycling all the time
I find the busses a pain and expensive. we need lots of small ones that stop and pick up on demand for a flat fee like in Turkey. its a system nearly as good as owning a car and cheap and effective. Give people what they want and they will use them.
finally make it safe for bikes to be left in central York and allow cycling in certain parts of the centre so its more convenient
Cars will thin out as it becomes more expensive and slower to use them, its a natural consequence of congestion
Finally when road works are done why do they take so long...Look at the roundabout on the ring road at A59 How long does it take to do this work? it causes chaos yet half the time virtually nobody is working and its obviously behind time given the signs as is the P and R's at al sites. does nobody in York make sure these things finish according to schedule?
Traffic would flow better if lights were monitored and changed when certain numbers of cars were queuing etc Technology could easily do that today rather than have fixed times. The new lights at the proposed park and ride at Grimston Bar are a nightmare already and have caused congestion not eased it and the P and R is not even open yet! Cycling can be used as a viable transport means BUT road surfaces are terrible as I do cycle and you virtually need a mountain bike to get around. I have not as lots of people put it experienced these terrible drivers all go on about but I do see v bad cycling all the time I find the busses a pain and expensive. we need lots of small ones that stop and pick up on demand for a flat fee like in Turkey. its a system nearly as good as owning a car and cheap and effective. Give people what they want and they will use them. finally make it safe for bikes to be left in central York and allow cycling in certain parts of the centre so its more convenient Cars will thin out as it becomes more expensive and slower to use them, its a natural consequence of congestion Finally when road works are done why do they take so long...Look at the roundabout on the ring road at A59 How long does it take to do this work? it causes chaos yet half the time virtually nobody is working and its obviously behind time given the signs as is the P and R's at al sites. does nobody in York make sure these things finish according to schedule? meme
  • Score: 6

12:44pm Tue 13 May 14

Cheeky face says...

Meme, useful comments.

When Briggate, Leeds was resurfaced for pedestrianisation years ago it was superbly controlled. It finished well on time; and everyone involved was updated on progress.

The City of York council transport tasks need experienced and intelligent supervisors- is that what we have? Testing contracts with strict conditions on timesale and costs; and good monitoring needs to happen. Were these things in place for the a1237 cycle lane? Report fudging will not stop and we would be niave to think otherwise!
Meme, useful comments. When Briggate, Leeds was resurfaced for pedestrianisation years ago it was superbly controlled. It finished well on time; and everyone involved was updated on progress. The City of York council transport tasks need experienced and intelligent supervisors- is that what we have? Testing contracts with strict conditions on timesale and costs; and good monitoring needs to happen. Were these things in place for the a1237 cycle lane? Report fudging will not stop and we would be niave to think otherwise! Cheeky face
  • Score: -62

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